California WTF? A rant.

[joko104]

[emphasis added by bubba]

actually, in my burg they did something different
the problem was examined. and it was found numerous homeless people were repeat customers of the emergency room
then the costs of those emergency room visits were tallied and the city fathers (and mothers) were made to realize that it was MUCH cheaper to construct studio apartments for these homeless than to continue to absorb the recurring costs of emergency room visits

let me post that again:

it was MUCH cheaper to construct studio apartments for these homeless than to continue to absorb the recurring costs of emergency room visits

and it is working. and so are many of the residents of the apartments. being off of the streets and inside a secure and wholesome environment, many of the former homeless have found jobs and pay rent
i do believe part of it is that these folks realize how fortunate they were to be plucked off of the street and given a chance to rebound
but they took that opportunity and made something of it
our community helped the least among us
and many prayers are being answered because of it

Who is going to clean the tens of thousands of studio apartments for the homeless? Daily? Weekly? Who will do the laundry to keep the building smell down? Keep them from becoming gang run, drug, prostitution and violence centers? Will there be on-site dead body sniffing dogs? Should the lobby include a 24/7 clinic and free cafeteria? Free condoms and needles vending machines? How many police officers should be stationed there. Seems too danger to just have 1. At least 2. 24/7. Sounds really expensive.

I don't want a place like that near my home. I bet upper middle class and wealthy people - Democrat and Republican don't either. I think most lower income and poor people don't want apartments like that near their homes or apartments either. Put simply, they don't want to live in an apartment complex filled with unemployed alcoholic, drug addicted and/or mentally ill street people. You?

 

[Luther]

So what exactly are you looking to make illegal? Poverty?

No, it just comes natural for the super majority Democrats in Calif(WINK)

 

[justabubba]

Who is going to clean the tens of thousands of studio apartments for the homeless?

the apartment managers do a weekly inspection of the apartments to assure they will not pose a health hazard to other residents
staff will work with residents to teach them how to do such cleaning
maintenance is performed by apartment management

Daily? Weekly?

weekly

Who will do the laundry to keep the building smell down?

the residents. the apartment management provides them with tokens weekly - and detergent - for the residents to clean their items in a centralized and monitored laundry facility. once they have jobs/disability income, those residents no longer receive the free tokens and detergent

Keep them from becoming gang run, drug, prostitution and violence centers? Will there be on-site dead body sniffing dogs? Should the lobby include a 24/7 clinic and free cafeteria?

there is a 24/7/365 security officer at the entrance/exit. electronic keys are provided to each resident for access
residents must meet guests downstairs at the entrance point and must personally escort their guests to the guarded exit when they are departing. unless special provisions are arranged with staff, no more than four guests can be on the premises at any given time, per resident
there is no cafeteria as each unit has its own kitchen; however, there is a central kitchen available to all for meetings/social gatherings

Free condoms and needles vending machines?

no. it is a no smoking facility with a smoking area commons for residents and guests

How many police officers should be stationed there.

the year round, round the clock security guard eliminates that requirement. the guard also has an extensive array of cameras to monitor much of the complex

Seems too danger to just have 1. At least 2. 24/7. Sounds really expensive.

it is. however, it is still cheaper than the emergency room visits that are no longer required by the residents
there is 9-5 staff nurse and social workers have office space and are rotated in from the department of social services
staff also help the residents apply for disability for those who cannot work. that income offsets the cost of their rent and provides a monthly discretionary income besides

I don't want a place like that near my home. I bet upper middle class and wealthy people - Democrat and Republican don't either. I think most lower income and poor people don't want apartments like that near their homes or apartments either. Put simply, they don't want to live in an apartment complex filled with unemployed alcoholic, drug addicted and/or mentally ill street people. You?

while i reside in one of the most desirable sections of the city (we bought here before it was 'found'; it was known as a hippie and gay enclave back then), we have an addiction rehab complex, a residential home for at risk children, and a very active soup kitchen. each faced vocal opposition when proposed, but the community at large welcomed the essential facilities. once established, they have become routine within the neighborhood
the city was smart again regarding the location of the residence for the formerly homeless. it was built in a location along the light rail system prior to the line's construction. that provides ready transportation for otherwise immobile residents (who use a discounted monthly rail/bus pass). now, development is moving toward the established facility, which has doubled in size since its launch. more land is available under the initial grant to permit another doubling of the resident population

 

[chuckiechan]

the apartment managers do a weekly inspection of the apartments to assure they will not pose a health hazard to other residents
staff will work with residents to teach them how to do such cleaning
maintenance is performed by apartment management
weekly

the residents. the apartment management provides them with tokens weekly - and detergent - for the residents to clean their items in a centralized and monitored laundry facility. once they have jobs/disability income, those residents no longer receive the free tokens and detergent

there is a 24/7/365 security officer at the entrance/exit. electronic keys are provided to each resident for access
residents must meet guests downstairs at the entrance point and must personally escort their guests to the guarded exit when they are departing. unless special provisions are arranged with staff, no more than four guests can be on the premises at any given time, per resident
there is no cafeteria as each unit has its own kitchen; however, there is a central kitchen available to all for meetings/social gatherings

no. it is a no smoking facility with a smoking area commons for residents and guests

the year round, round the clock security guard eliminates that requirement. the guard also has an extensive array of cameras to monitor much of the complex

it is. however, it is still cheaper than the emergency room visits that are no longer required by the residents
there is 9-5 staff nurse and social workers have office space and are rotated in from the department of social services
staff also help the residents apply for disability for those who cannot work. that income offsets the cost of their rent and provides a monthly discretionary income besides

while i reside in one of the most desirable sections of the city (we bought here before it was 'found'; it was known as a hippie and gay enclave back then), we have an addiction rehab complex, a residential home for at risk children, and a very active soup kitchen. each faced vocal opposition when proposed, but the community at large welcomed the essential facilities. once established, they have become routine within the neighborhood
the city was smart again regarding the location of the residence for the formerly homeless. it was built in a location along the light rail system prior to the line's construction. that provides ready transportation for otherwise immobile residents (who use a discounted monthly rail/bus pass). now, development is moving toward the established facility, which has doubled in size since its launch. more land is available under the initial grant to permit another doubling of the resident population

Since California’s government has welcomed the world to latch onto the public teat, what stops immigrants from forcing the homeless out - (like they have done to veterans) - and create their own little ghetto?

Build it and the entire world’s impoverished will come and sit at your table.

 

[justabubba]

Since California’s government has welcomed the world to latch onto the public teat, what stops immigrants from forcing the homeless out - (like they have done to veterans) - and create their own little ghetto?

Build it and the entire world’s impoverished will come and sit at your table.

isn't that a major factor about this homelessness problem

those communities that provide resources to deal with the homelessness problem get more homeless people to help

word about which communities are willing to make the plight of homelessness better gets out among those in great need

 

[joko104]

the apartment managers do a weekly inspection of the apartments to assure they will not pose a health hazard to other residents
staff will work with residents to teach them how to do such cleaning
maintenance is performed by apartment management
weekly

the residents. the apartment management provides them with tokens weekly - and detergent - for the residents to clean their items in a centralized and monitored laundry facility. once they have jobs/disability income, those residents no longer receive the free tokens and detergent

there is a 24/7/365 security officer at the entrance/exit. electronic keys are provided to each resident for access
residents must meet guests downstairs at the entrance point and must personally escort their guests to the guarded exit when they are departing. unless special provisions are arranged with staff, no more than four guests can be on the premises at any given time, per resident
there is no cafeteria as each unit has its own kitchen; however, there is a central kitchen available to all for meetings/social gatherings

no. it is a no smoking facility with a smoking area commons for residents and guests

the year round, round the clock security guard eliminates that requirement. the guard also has an extensive array of cameras to monitor much of the complex

it is. however, it is still cheaper than the emergency room visits that are no longer required by the residents
there is 9-5 staff nurse and social workers have office space and are rotated in from the department of social services
staff also help the residents apply for disability for those who cannot work. that income offsets the cost of their rent and provides a monthly discretionary income besides

while i reside in one of the most desirable sections of the city (we bought here before it was 'found'; it was known as a hippie and gay enclave back then), we have an addiction rehab complex, a residential home for at risk children, and a very active soup kitchen. each faced vocal opposition when proposed, but the community at large welcomed the essential facilities. once established, they have become routine within the neighborhood
the city was smart again regarding the location of the residence for the formerly homeless. it was built in a location along the light rail system prior to the line's construction. that provides ready transportation for otherwise immobile residents (who use a discounted monthly rail/bus pass). now, development is moving toward the established facility, which has doubled in size since its launch. more land is available under the initial grant to permit another doubling of the resident population

A well thought out response.

 

[year2late]

you post causes me to ask an obvious question: why the **** are you still there if you hate it so much?


i ask a similar question of yankees who come down south and then piss and moan because the south is not like their homes up north

No kidding.

Different regions of the country have different sensibilities, climate, economies....etc.

If you have the means, move. Specifically those that are whining about cost of living. If someone doesn't like it in CA, they can sell their 800,000 dollar 2 bedroom 1 bath house on a small lot and buy a mansion in Alabama and have money left over. So move.

 

[Casca XV]

I spent the day in Los Angeles yesterday for a convention and, to be real, it wasn’t pretty at all. I had heard about human feces and trash in the streets but I thought that was exaggerated and hey, every city has their “bad” neighborhoods. Just in the drive to and from the venue, which was about an hour from LAX, I saw more than just some litter on the ground. I saw dozens of stuffed shopping carts blocking the sidewalks, people with giant bags of cans walking casually through traffic, drivers being hit up for spare change while waiting in line at a drive through, campsites and cardboard dwellings in virtually every open space along the freeway, tents pitched in the doorways of buildings and even streets lined with derelict, trashed out RVs (that **** would be towed away where I live).

No doubt, there are very nice areas of LA, much nicer than anything we have we live. I think, though, what I saw is an extreme example of what happens when you divorce people from any accountability for their lives and choices and, instead, place blame those who do work to take care of themselves. It actually isn’t selfish to take care of yourself so others don’t have to take care of you. Compassion is a great thing and we need social safety nets but compassion without some responsibility is just enabling and I don’t think anything I saw was beneficial to anyone.

/end rant

Thanks to Leftist Democrats: California no longer qualifies to be called the "Golden State".

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

[emphasis added by bubba]

actually, in my burg they did something different
the problem was examined. and it was found numerous homeless people were repeat customers of the emergency room
then the costs of those emergency room visits were tallied and the city fathers (and mothers) were made to realize that it was MUCH cheaper to construct studio apartments for these homeless than to continue to absorb the recurring costs of emergency room visits

let me post that again:

it was MUCH cheaper to construct studio apartments for these homeless than to continue to absorb the recurring costs of emergency room visits

and it is working. and so are many of the residents of the apartments. being off of the streets and inside a secure and wholesome environment, many of the former homeless have found jobs and pay rent
i do believe part of it is that these folks realize how fortunate they were to be plucked off of the street and given a chance to rebound
but they took that opportunity and made something of it
our community helped the least among us
and many prayers are being answered because of it

Thank you.
It IS much cheaper to just figure out a way to provide affordable housing, and that's what LA, San Francisco and a bunch of other cities in California are going to have to do.
But before we do any of that, we must, as distasteful as this may sound, separate the wheat from the chaff, because California's weather is a magnet for people who just aren't the least bit interested in being productive and participating members of society at ANY level.
We can't help those people very much because they don't even WANT the help, and we HAVE to deal with them.
To the chagrin and dismay of my more liberal friends, these people are not economically displaced and they aren't unfortunates...they're BUMS.
And BUMS are a law enforcement problem.

Now, that takes care of about half the homeless.
The other half needs our help, and if they have a roof, they can most likely help themselves to some extent.
And we will save money in the long run.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As an addendum to my earlier post, let's compare the homeless situation in LA and SF to a Fiddler Crab.

California has ALWAYS had a super-sized supply of grifters, drifters, dharma bums, regular bums, hobos and ne'er do wells because of the marvelous weather. A generous set of public goods and services makes it even more attractive.
That's the BIG claw on the Fiddler Crab, an already extant community of totally worthless and useless people who are many in number and few in any measure of ambition.
A subset of these people were or are already mentally ill. A goodly portion of them are drunks and/or addicts.

We already had a certain number of hard luck cases, displaced individuals and families but our main problem was the former group, those who were really just bums.
Now, with the aftermath of the economic meltdown and the real estate bubble, we have a growing number of displaced individuals and families, many of whom still work but the rent suddenly became too high and so now they too are on the street.

Suddenly the "little claw" on our Fiddler Crab has grown to be equal in size to the other claw, and we're not looking at a Fiddler Crab anymore, just a large crab with not one but now TWO oversized and muscular claws.

California can handle the former group, the bums. Law enforcement can enforce the laws, and strengthen them.
Drunks and addicts get sent to treatment, or they are jailed till they dry up. Bums either get jailed or sent packing.

But with the growing number of displaced people who live "Hooverville" style in tents, we are now overwhelmed because we were already treating the bums with kid gloves, because bums "have rights".
Of course they do, but they end where mine begin, remember that?

Now we're overwhelmed and we don't have the manpower or resources to help a group which is now much more than twice the size it used to be.

Not an excuse, just an explanation of what we're looking at.
We're looking at a state which barely contained its grifter/drifter/bum population now being overrun by both that group AND the hard luck cases.

More and more Californians are already accepting the reality that we really can only devote our resources to helping the hard luck cases, and that means HOUSING, affordable housing.

For the rest, we can only do what any community does. Play by the rules, be productive, be clean or get used to being picked up and dealt with by the police.

Liberals, it is time to recognize the fact that the only people we can really help are people who will take the help that is offered, people who can actually benefit from it.

 

[justabubba]

[Page 1 of 2 pages]

[edited out] ... A subset of these people were or are already mentally ill.

from my years of operating a soup kitchen, it seemed that over half of the clients were mentally ill to some degree
since reagan, many people who should be institutions have had no where else but the street
we desperately need to fix that
about one in ten were in a tough patch that they would ride out and then return to the mainstream. these were disproportionately late teens and young adults who were no longer able or interested in living at home
about one in five were on the margins, saving the cost of a meal because their budget was tight; exclusively low-skill, blue collar wage earners and low end independent contractors
about 30% were seniors. some who could and did work, when work was available, but most were trying to stretch a very thin social security check
there were very few who were just useless. assholes that try to get over, even on we, the volunteers who were feeding them. fortunately, they were not many but they are easily identifiable by their shameless greed and lack of character
in my opinion, that group tends to be who are seen in the public's eye, when it comes to people receiving government help
who wants to help a no-account greedy bastard who won't do anything honest to help himself. i get it
the problem is, those very few spoil it for the many who need a hand up ... and often a hand out
just look on these boards how many self-identified "Christians" take every opportunity to oppose government help for those in need. so much for actually hearing Christ's words

A goodly portion of them are drunks and/or addicts.

most - not all, but most - of those are captured above in that portion of those who need mental health assistance
without it, the chances of them turning around and being productive on their own is close to nil

We already had a certain number of hard luck cases, displaced individuals and families but our main problem was the former group, those who were really just bums.

while i am native to merced, i have not been west of montana in over 20 years, so i cannot pretend to have a feel for LA and SF and san diego
from your post, it would seem your local government is able to deal with those already present, but that the state has not figured out how to scale that up to deal with the additional people in need of government services

Now, with the aftermath of the economic meltdown and the real estate bubble, we have a growing number of displaced individuals and families, many of whom still work but the rent suddenly became too high and so now they too are on the street.

Suddenly the "little claw" on our Fiddler Crab has grown to be equal in size to the other claw, and we're not looking at a Fiddler Crab anymore, just a large crab with not one but now TWO oversized and muscular claws.

that soup kitchen i referenced was launched in late '08 in response to the adverse impact of the great recession upon our community. at its peak, about august '10, we were feeding about 360 people per meal. the current tally is in the low 100's. and the number of homeless who are visible on the street has subsided in the same proportion
your situation appears to have grown while ours has diminished

*continues*

 

[justabubba]

[Page 2 of 2 pages]

California can handle the former group, the bums. Law enforcement can enforce the laws, and strengthen them.

Drunks and addicts get sent to treatment, or they are jailed till they dry up. Bums either get jailed or sent packing.

ok, here is where you and i do NOT see eye to eye. those drunks and addicts are sick. jailing them until they dry up is reprehensible; jailing people because they have an illness. it seems so absurd. also quite unConstitutional if they are jailed despite having committed no crime

But with the growing number of displaced people who live "Hooverville" style in tents, we are now overwhelmed because we were already treating the bums with kid gloves, because bums "have rights".

Of course they do, but they end where mine begin, remember that?

what you did not explain was what rights of yours they are infringing by their actions. share that with us so that we can understand your situation, too

Now we're overwhelmed and we don't have the manpower or resources to help a group which is now much more than twice the size it used to be.

Not an excuse, just an explanation of what we're looking at.

actually, it does appear to be an excuse. a very weakly supported one
california appears capable of doing a lot of things. the only global economies larger than that of california are those of the USA, china, japan, and germany. yep, if cali were a nation, it would have the world's fifth largest economy
also, employment between 2012 and 2017 increased by 16% in california while it holds 12% of the nation’s population
it would appear that california has become a jobs magnet not just from mexico/latin america but for much of the USA

We're looking at a state which barely contained its grifter/drifter/bum population now being overrun by both that group AND the hard luck cases.

More and more Californians are already accepting the reality that we really can only devote our resources to helping the hard luck cases, and that means HOUSING, affordable housing.

i see in my burg an attitude by many established residents that 'i have mine, you go get your own'. your comments sound eerily similar to me

For the rest, we can only do what any community does. Play by the rules, be productive, be clean or get used to being picked up and dealt with by the police.

see my questions about whether it is Constitutional - and ethical - to make it criminal to be poor, which comments are found above

Liberals, it is time to recognize the fact that the only people we can really help are people who will take the help that is offered, people who can actually benefit from it.

those people you would deny help are often our fellow citizens. certainly they are fellow humans. how we treat the least among us tells a lot about a people. i do not want to be someone who espouses what you are proposing

 

[Michel Montvert]

I spent the day in Los Angeles yesterday for a convention and, to be real, it wasn’t pretty at all. I had heard about human feces and trash in the streets but I thought that was exaggerated and hey, every city has their “bad” neighborhoods. Just in the drive to and from the venue, which was about an hour from LAX, I saw more than just some litter on the ground. I saw dozens of stuffed shopping carts blocking the sidewalks, people with giant bags of cans walking casually through traffic, drivers being hit up for spare change while waiting in line at a drive through, campsites and cardboard dwellings in virtually every open space along the freeway, tents pitched in the doorways of buildings and even streets lined with derelict, trashed out RVs (that **** would be towed away where I live).

No doubt, there are very nice areas of LA, much nicer than anything we have we live. I think, though, what I saw is an extreme example of what happens when you divorce people from any accountability for their lives and choices and, instead, place blame those who do work to take care of themselves. It actually isn’t selfish to take care of yourself so others don’t have to take care of you. Compassion is a great thing and we need social safety nets but compassion without some responsibility is just enabling and I don’t think anything I saw was beneficial to anyone.

/end rant

More victim blaming. This is the sort of mentality rampant since Reagan, that if you've got money, your virtuous, and if you don't, it's your own fault.

What a nonsense philosophy! NO real science would substantiate it.

If poverty increases, then have more stupid people been born? No, in fact social problems are caused by the structure of society.

 

[Michel Montvert]

I am surprised people still book conventions in California!

California is the avant-garde state, leading the nation in many respects.

Hatred of California comes only from the Right, who can't stand all that prosperity occurring under Democratic rule.

Hold your convention in Kansas.

 

[Crystal]

California is the avant-garde state, leading the nation in many respects.

Hatred of California comes only from the Right, who can't stand all that prosperity occurring under Democratic rule.

Hold your convention in Kansas.

Oh my! We can bash Trump 24/7 but don’t say a word about **** filled California. Oh my!

 

[Michel Montvert]

That's so easy for people who don't live around this squalor to say...
Have you no empathy for people whose neighborhoods are being taken over by people living in their streets, parks?

Where would you have them live? Perhaps round them up and have them eliminated?

These social problems have causes, and addressing those causes solves the problems. Pretending that every individual is 100% responsible for their own fate and that social factors don't exist, is blind.

The same Rightists who consistently blame the victims in the USA, are the first to caterwaul about all the damage done by govts they don't like. If your blame-the-victim Reaganomics philosophy is valid, then aren't the Syrian people to blame for their own misery? Or the Venezuelans?

Nothing to come out of the "conservative" movement makes any sense.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Nevertheless, people are discovering what a mess human government has made in the streets of democrat cities of California.

What is your proposed alternative to human government? I am honestly curious.

 

[marke]

What is your proposed alternative to human government? I am honestly curious.

Clean human government up. Cast out the barbarians and replace them with good leaders who are respectable, civilized human beings.

 

[Luther]

Clean human government up. Cast out the barbarians and replace them with good leaders who are respectable, civilized human beings.

(LOL)

Nothing positively happens political until Americans learn what it is to be an American

Citizenry reform

Politicians simply are citizens themselves

Maybe I'm on to something?

 

[Vadinho]

Clean human government up. Cast out the barbarians and replace them with good leaders who are respectable, civilized human beings.

Go read Animal Farm again....or Lord of the Flies and then come back and remind us of your fantasies about human nature and power.

 

[marke]

(LOL)

Nothing positively happens political until Americans learn what it is to be an American

Citizenry reform

Politicians simply are citizens themselves

Maybe I'm on to something?

Black Muslims who curse America for having a history of white leaders may be Americans, but they do not seem to share in American thankfulness to God for His blessings.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Clean human government up. Cast out the barbarians and replace them with good leaders who are respectable, civilized human beings.

But they will still be humans.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Black Muslims who curse America for having a history of white leaders may be Americans, but they do not seem to share in American thankfulness to God for His blessings.

Well, then.

We all know Baby Jesus hated blacks.

 

[Moot]

Not sure it's all California's fault when other states are giving their homeless free one way bus tickets to California.

A lot of people are homeless simply because they can't afford the increasingly high rents anymore...especially on minimum wage. It doesn't take much to become homeless these days.

 

[Luther]

Black Muslims who curse America for having a history of white leaders may be Americans, but they do not seem to share in American thankfulness to God for His blessings.

I'm referring to the average American who doesn't even know What kind of Government we have and their voting? Or how July 4th is about Fireworks and barbecuing

Not some slim minority of our population