California utility will shut off power to 800,000 people to prevent wildfires

[weaver2]

You're not really into rational discussion. You just want to rant against the Capitalists and President Trump. Go ahead, enjoy. I prefer to talk with adults. Trump Derangement Syndrome strikes again.

He tried rational discussion. It didn't work. And I doubt very much if, as a Canadian, he suffers much Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Congratulations!
You win the booby prize for being the first to make the thread about Trump.

Ya know.....they have to go there.

Even though the same problem existed under past administrations.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

He tried rational discussion. It didn't work. And I doubt very much if, as a Canadian, he suffers much Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Unlike many Americans, I'd play golf with Mr. Trump (for money). Of course I wouldn't let him keep score, but I'd still play golf with him (for money).

 

[Luther]

Pacific Gas & Electric plans to cut power to 34 northern and central counties in state’s biggest-ever preventive outage
With windy, dry weather in the forecast and warnings of extreme fire danger, Pacific Gas & Electric utility said it will start turning off power to 34 counties in northern and central California after midnight Wednesday.
Guardian staff and agencies
Tue 8 Oct 2019 18.26 EDT

This is an outrage!!! PG&E power lines started almost all the fires that devastated Northern California last year and the year before. The fires start because PG&E saves money by loosely stringing power lines. Taut lines cost more money. But, loose lines slap together in strong winds, spark and start fires. PG&E knew their loose lines were sparking near Paradise because a home owner had called them twice. They did nothing and the town of Paradise burned completely to the ground. 85 people were trapped and died in that fire. So now the yearly Santa Ana winds have returned. And the prospect of fires loom large.

What is PG&E's solution to prevent fires? Tighten up the lines? Nope! Do what they are supposed to do with the flammable trees and shrubs under the lines, cut them back? Nope! Have fire equipment and trained personnel in the areas where fires are most likely to start? Nope! Their solution? Shut off power to 800,000 people until the winds stop.

This corporation has started over 20 fires, killed over 100 people, polluted the drinking water of hundreds of families and caused cancer, birth defects, early deaths, and debilitated health. Why is this corporation still in business??? What 's wrong with a country that let's a corporation get away with fire, pollution and killings?

California utility will shut off power to 800,000 people to prevent wildfires

But hey!

They have the biggest economy and the highest tax revenue for our Fed gov than any state?(LOL)

Not all rosy in the sunshine?

 

[weaver2]

But hey!

They have the biggest economy and the highest tax revenue for our Fed gov than any state?(LOL)

Not all rosy in the sunshine?

I agree the state itself is to blame also for not forcing PG&E to live up to its contract, which includes maintenance of lines and land under the lines.

 

[Luther]

I agree the state itself is to blame also for not forcing PG&E to live up to its contract, which includes maintenance of lines and land under the lines.

The state isn't run by a bunch of Democrats are they?(LOL)

Just having fun

 

[Waddy]

There are, indeed, days when I think that the

[The above form of "Internet Rebuttal" has been specifically and officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]
​

bit is just a tad overly subtle.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Waddy]

He tried rational discussion. It didn't work. And I doubt very much if, as a Canadian, he suffers much Trump Derangement Syndrome.

The little posse shows up. Trump Derangement Syndrome is contagious. Even foreigners can get it.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe more than a tad overly subtle.

 

[weaver2]

Maybe more than a tad overly subtle.

Subtle would be a 2 x 4 up-side of the head. Everything else just flies past unnoticed.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Subtle would be a 2 x 4 up-side of the head. Everything else just flies past unnoticed.

Ah! I see you have met my Great Uncle Jake, the mule trainer world renowned for his kindness and patience.

 

[weaver2]

Ah! I see you have met my Great Uncle Jake, the mule trainer world renowned for his kindness and patience.

Big fan of that joke. It's hilarious, makes a significant point and can be used to good effect on people that behave in mulish ways.

 

[weaver2]

Using aerial images of Google Maps I traced the power lines from Oregon where they have never started a fire across the border into California where power lines do cause fires. Very interesting.

In Oregon seven widely spaced wires are carried on two double poles with connecting cross bars supporting three wires on one support, 4 wires on the other and 200 ft wide right of way cleared under them. After crossing the border this pattern is maintained to a transmission station in Agar. After Agar it's hard to follow because there is seldom any clearing and all 7 lines are now on a single pole with two cross arms.

As the lines come south 4 lines split off to the west. The 3 lines going south are on one pole with the lines closer together. There is no longer any right of way clearing even through areas with trees.

Tracing the high tension transmission line in and around Geyser where the Kincade fire started is impossible. The lines go through so many trees, not above or below to but through trees that have grown into the power lines. Some poles are carrying as many at 10 lines all close together. These lines often cross with the local lines going through, again, not above or below but through the major lines. In some places the lines look like a game of pick-up sticks There are apparently no underground lines.

Google "Map:Geyeserville Ave. in Geyeserville California". Use the satillite image and just move the curser through through the town on Geyserville Ave. looking at the lines on both sides of the highway as they go through the trees. It's evident why a fire began in Geyserville.

 

[dcsports]

Using aerial images of Google Maps I traced the power lines from Oregon where they have never started a fire across the border into California where power lines do cause fires. Very interesting.

In Oregon seven widely spaced wires are carried on two double poles with connecting cross bars supporting three wires on one support, 4 wires on the other and 200 ft wide right of way cleared under them. After crossing the border this pattern is maintained to a transmission station in Agar. After Agar it's hard to follow because there is seldom any clearing and all 7 lines are now on a single pole with two cross arms.

As the lines come south 4 lines split off to the west. The 3 lines going south are on one pole with the lines closer together. There is no longer any right of way clearing even through areas with trees.

Tracing the high tension transmission line in and around Geyser where the Kincade fire started is impossible. The lines go through so many trees, not above or below to but through trees that have grown into the power lines. Some poles are carrying as many at 10 lines all close together. These lines often cross with the local lines going through, again, not above or below but through the major lines. In some places the lines look like a game of pick-up sticks There are apparently no underground lines.

Google "Map:Geyeserville Ave. in Geyeserville California". Use the satillite image and just move the curser through through the town on Geyserville Ave. looking at the lines on both sides of the highway as they go through the trees. It's evident why a fire began in Geyserville.

Thank you for confirming this. The high voltage transmission lines in my state have a similar arrangement - big towers with a wide, cleared, right of way - usually used for cow or hay fields (and sometimes parking lots). I assumed this was standard - for both fire prevention and disaster recovery. (They were able to re-construct sections in weeks following a severe hurricane). We don't have fires caused by tranmission lines, and it's hard to picture how that could even happen.

 

[BahamaBob]

Some here seem to think that the utility sets the parameters for transmission line maintenance. That is not the case, the state sets the parameters and the California Public Utilities Commission is responsible for making sure they are fulfilled. In California, that is a nine headed monster. First, you have unrealistic EPA standards that make it a major crime to clear dead brush or trim trees that are too close to transmission lines. Another issue here is the amount of sag in the lines. That is set by a code. If the lines do not meet code the state can impose punitive fines. This leads me to believe the line sag is within code limits. At any rate, no matter how strict the codes in dry conditions like exist in much of California spark caused fires are always a possibility.

The real problem here is California holding the utility responsible for acts of nature and inadequate fire protection. IMHO, if the lines were built and maintained to code, the utility should not be responsible if extreme weather conditions caused malfunctions. To me it looks more like the state of California has allowed home building in areas where they do not have adequate fire protection. Rather than owning this problem they shift the blame to the utility.

 

[beefheart]

I was at LAX this morning, heavy smoke smell, and lots of haze near the 405.

 

[weaver2]

Some here seem to think that the utility sets the parameters for transmission line maintenance. That is not the case, the state sets the parameters and the California Public Utilities Commission is responsible for making sure they are fulfilled. In California, that is a nine headed monster. First, you have unrealistic EPA standards that make it a major crime to clear dead brush or trim trees that are too close to transmission lines. Another issue here is the amount of sag in the lines. That is set by a code. If the lines do not meet code the state can impose punitive fines. This leads me to believe the line sag is within code limits. At any rate, no matter how strict the codes in dry conditions like exist in much of California spark caused fires are always a possibility.

The real problem here is California holding the utility responsible for acts of nature and inadequate fire protection. IMHO, if the lines were built and maintained to code, the utility should not be responsible if extreme weather conditions caused malfunctions. To me it looks more like the state of California has allowed home building in areas where they do not have adequate fire protection. Rather than owning this problem they shift the blame to the utility.

PGandE is responsible for line maintenance and they self-inspect. This was part of an agreement with the state a long time ago in exchange for getting out of either doing something or paying something. I've lost the article that reported on it and it was so long ago that it doesn't pop up on google. California isn't the best at keeping track of things and probably isn't enforcing other standards regulating this utility, but PG&E is totally responsible for line and right of way maintenance.

 

[weaver2]

PGandE is responsible for line maintenance and they self-inspect. This was part of an agreement with the state a long time ago in exchange for getting out of either doing something or paying something. I've lost the article that reported on it and it was so long ago that it doesn't pop up on google. California isn't the best at keeping track of things and probably isn't enforcing other standards regulating this utility, but PG&E is totally responsible for line and right of way maintenance.

PG&E power lines. Looks like a fire waiting to happen

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

PG&E power lines. Looks like a fire waiting to happen

View attachment 67267350

Do you happen to know the line voltage of the lines in that picture?

The fire hazard would vary depending on what the line voltage was, but (from the size of the insulators) my _guess_ is that at least the top three lines are NOT carrying "residential service" line voltages.

 

[weaver2]

Do you happen to know the line voltage of the lines in that picture?

The fire hazard would vary depending on what the line voltage was, but (from the size of the insulators) my _guess_ is that at least the top three lines are NOT carrying "residential service" line voltages.

I don't know what voltage the different lines are carrying. However, in tracing the 7 power lines that exit from Oregon on two cross bar type supports and go down into norther California the number of lines stay the same but they are on a single pole and the separation of lines is halved. This type of line continues down into the populated areas of Northern California where the fires have started.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I don't know what voltage the different lines are carrying. However, in tracing the 7 power lines that exit from Oregon on two cross bar type supports and go down into norther California the number of lines stay the same but they are on a single pole and the separation of lines is halved. This type of line continues down into the populated areas of Northern California where the fires have started.

I don't make any pretense to being an electrical engineer, but "poles" (as per your photo) doesn't sound quite as good as "transmission towers"

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like the above (which are the standard type in BC).

You have to have a REALLY tall tree before it can fall across those transmission lines and you have to have a REALLY big spark for it to last long enough to start the (cleared) underbrush on the (roughly) 60' wide rights of way.