Burning your own flag is freedom of speech. Burning your neighbors is vandalism

[OldFatGuy]

You don't react with violence. And flag burning is nothing akin to what Nazis did.

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You really are clueless.

Kristalnacht was just broken glass, right?

 

[gdgyva]

I was referring to your claim that, "We become stronger by listening to crap and knowing when to ignore it. Trump's lies blows your theory about permanent damage out of the water;

"The largest audience ever to witness an inauguration, period"

The phone call was "perfect".

" ...my polls went up, I think they said, 17 points in the last two or three days". "His polling didn't go up 17 point, Don picks a number out of thin air, pretends it’s real and insists everyone accept his made-up number. And this is only one of his made-up numbers.

Accusing Congress of, “treason" and a "coup" and raising the prospect of a ,“Civil War-like fracture." "...an attempted to overthrow America..."

"Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama, will most likely be hit (much) harder than anticipated".Remember his ridiculous hand drawn sharpie enlargement of the hurricane forecast? If he's successful in convincing the public that Coast Guard Admirals and the NOAA are in the business of partisan spin rather than facts, millions won’t trust their future warnings.

He claims that, "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea” This is not true, both Kim Jong-un and Putin pose a serious nuclear threat. Trump has relentlessly attacked U.S. intelligence agencies and divulged secrets to foreign officials, potentially burning high-value sources. Etc, etc, etc.

The fact is, we don't, "become stronger by listening to crap and knowing when to ignore it", because millions of Americans won't ignore his lies, they'll believe them. His lies can alter our relations to the world and cause America permanent damage. If you don't recognize the above is crap, you're what we call a Cult member.

Although raising taxes has obviously effected most American's lives, including yours and mine, like you, he hasn't changed my personal life much. My biggest problem with him is his risking our county's security. He's a one man show like the dictators he admires. He has no use for our intelligence agencies, or state department. That wouldn't be so bad if he didn't have the self control of a ten year old and wasn't an ignoramus who doesn't read. You seem to know this, but you're ok with that change in America?

Why can't conservatives see past their personal lives to something bigger? Do you believe Don is motivated by love of country or love of money and power? How about Obama? If conservative isolationists have their way, they'll have an enormous impact on America forever. Handing our position as leader of the world to China and Russia might save us a few million in funding the UN, but like many issues with cons, it's a short sighted policy. To put it another way, it's penny wise and pound foolish.

Don has added four trillion to our national debt since taking office. Millions of American's taxes might have gone up, including ours, but someone has to pay for the wealthy's windfall. You should consider revising your political leaning claim...
edited for length

"The largest audience ever to witness an inauguration, period" so what? this is HUGE...maybe next, he tells us a tale about a fish he caught...holy kerist....this matters HOW

...my polls went up, I think they said, 17 points in the last two or three days" again this matters WHY? really...in the big scheme of things, this changes WHAT?

The fact is, we don't, "become stronger by listening to crap and knowing when to ignore it", because millions of Americans won't ignore his lies, they'll believe them. His lies can alter our relations to the world and cause America permanent damage. If you don't recognize the above is crap, you're what we call a Cult member. i bet you are one of THOSE that quotes his 13000 lie numbers...am i right? and you call me a cult member? lmfao....dude...you may want to look at the koolaid you are consuming

What he does on a daily basis affects me almost not at all....

No president really does....Not Bush, Obama, Clinton....none of them

The only thing they can do that REALLY affects us all is when they start wars....the rest is crap....sign this bill, dont sign that one
they come into office with a couple legacy pieces of legislation they want to get done...some get it done, others fall flat on their face

For the vast majority of Americans, what a president does or doesnt do, it really doesnt matter....

Congress on the other hand....they can screw up the works big time....both in the house, and in the senate

 

[roguenuke]

You really are clueless.

Kristalnacht was just broken glass, right?

That was illegal vandalism and had nothing to do with flag burning, not even the same category. It was not just vandalism of someone else's property either, but a systemic intimidation tactic. Flag burning is nothing but a statement unless you are burning someone else's flag or trying to burn someone else or their property with your burning flag.

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[OldFatGuy]

That was illegal vandalism and had nothing to do with flag burning, not even the same category. It was not just vandalism of someone else's property either, but a systemic intimidation tactic. Flag burning is nothing but a statement unless you are burning someone else's flag or trying to burn someone else or their property with your burning flag.

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Just vandalism? Not a statement? :lamo

 

[roguenuke]

Just vandalism? Not a statement? :lamo

It wasnt just a statement, and that is the key. You can just make a statement that is both despicable and not illegal, because it does not harm others or their property. Flag burning and protesting funerals or other events with nasty comments or despicable signs, even with words, is making a statement but protected speech as long as it remains nonviolent and/or only your personal property that is damaged in any way, you do things that are not legitimately affecting others. Once you cross the line, destroying other peoples business windows, property, stealing from them, using violence against them in some way, then it is more than simply a statement. It is also a violent act, and illegal in most cases, places.

Note, I specifically said "it was not just vandalism".

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[OldFatGuy]

It wasnt just a statement, and that is the key. You can just make a statement that is both despicable and not illegal, because it does not harm others or their property. Flag burning and protesting funerals or other events with nasty comments or despicable signs, even with words, is making a statement but protected speech as long as it remains nonviolent and/or only your personal property that is damaged in any way, you do things that are not legitimately affecting others. Once you cross the line, destroying other peoples business windows, property, stealing from them, using violence against them in some way, then it is more than simply a statement. It is also a violent act, and illegal in most cases, places.

Note, I specifically said "it was not just vandalism".

Property? Property is the defining parameter of your morality? :lamo

 

[roguenuke]

Property? Property is the defining parameter of your morality? :lamo

Violation of the law is the defining parameter. Imposing on another, doing them actual harm either to them or their property.

My morality is separate from the law and other peoples rights.

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[OldFatGuy]

Violation of the law is the defining parameter. Imposing on another, doing them actual harm either to them or their property.

My morality is separate from the law and other peoples rights.

When law is used as a tool of oppression and suppression, morality supersedes law. The convention of Property rights become irrelevant.

Shakespeare's call "Kill the lawyers first!" was a call for revolution in response to such laws. No, our laws are based on morality, whether you like it or not. And when lawmakers use the law immorally, the only moral response is to break the laws. You cannot separate morality from law. For when you do, you become a fascist.

 

[veritas1]

Ah, another attempt at deflection and one that is sooooo far out no one can understand how you got there with the present OP. Again, if you have nothing more than deflection, please stay out of the fray.

It's not a deflection. The hypocrisy of the left is an integral part of all these discussions. As long as they do all the things they accuse conservatives of, they will be exposed.

 

[SoCal]

"The largest audience ever to witness an inauguration, period" so what? this is HUGE...maybe next, he tells us a tale about a fish he caught...holy kerist....this matters HOW

...my polls went up, I think they said, 17 points in the last two or three days" again this matters WHY? really...in the big scheme of things, this changes WHAT?...

What about his recent lies about his 'persecution' at the hands of human scum Democrats? How about his lie that Schiff “doctored” impeachment hearings transcripts? If believed, lies like these can change elections and of course, the big scheme of things.

If he lies about trivial matters for years, why would non-Cult members believe him when he actually tells the truth about very serious things? There's a fable from the before the 15th century about a boy who lies about wolves attacking his sheep. It's called, 'The boy who cried wolf, you must have heard of it. This is exactly what Numnuts is doing. The story doesn't end well.

...What he does on a daily basis affects me almost not at all....

...For the vast majority of Americans, what a president does or doesnt do, it really doesnt matter....

Congress on the other hand....they can screw up the works big time....both in the house, and in the senate

Presidents have taken an increasing amount of power from congress and the senate every decade. With that, presidents bear an increasing level of responsibility. If you don't believe congress, the senate and most all top Repub politicians do exactly as Trump wants and demands, I've got a bridge...

 

[gdgyva]

What about his recent lies about his 'persecution' at the hands of human scum Democrats? How about his lie that Schiff “doctored” impeachment hearings transcripts? If believed, lies like these can change elections and of course, the big scheme of things.

If he lies about trivial matters for years, why would non-Cult members believe him when he actually tells the truth about very serious things? There's a fable from the before the 15th century about a boy who lies about wolves attacking his sheep. It's called, 'The boy who cried wolf, you must have heard of it. This is exactly what Numnuts is doing. The story doesn't end well.



Presidents have taken an increasing amount of power from congress and the senate every decade. With that, presidents bear an increasing level of responsibility. If you don't believe congress, the senate and most all top Repub politicians do exactly as Trump wants and demands, I've got a bridge...

like i said....maybe i just dont follow this crap as closely as you all do

what he does and says on a daily basis...i really dont give a ****

direction of country, economy, are we in a war....those things i kinda watch out for....

rest of it is just bull**** things to argue about in politics....

What about his recent lies about his 'persecution' at the hands of human scum Democrats? How about his lie that Schiff “doctored” impeachment hearings transcripts? If believed, lies like these can change elections and of course, the big scheme of things.

i have zero idea on what exactly you are talking about....can i get a link?

 

[SoCal]

like i said....maybe i just dont follow this crap as closely as you all do

what he does and says on a daily basis...i really dont give a ****

direction of country, economy, are we in a war....those things i kinda watch out for....

rest of it is just bull**** things to argue about in politics....

What about his recent lies about his 'persecution' at the hands of human scum Democrats? How about his lie that Schiff “doctored” impeachment hearings transcripts? If believed, lies like these can change elections and of course, the big scheme of things.

i have zero idea on what exactly you are talking about....can i get a link?

"...President Trump lashed out anew at the investigation, claiming without any evidence that House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) had doctored transcripts from closed-door depositions..."

"No American should ever face such persecution from their own government," Trump said..."

"The Never Trumper Republicans, though on respirators with not many left, are in certain ways worse and more dangerous for our Country than the Do Nothing Democrats," Trump tweeted Thursday. "Watch out for them, they are human scum!"

 

[gdgyva]

"...President Trump lashed out anew at the investigation, claiming without any evidence that House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) had doctored transcripts from closed-door depositions..."

"No American should ever face such persecution from their own government," Trump said..."

"The Never Trumper Republicans, though on respirators with not many left, are in certain ways worse and more dangerous for our Country than the Do Nothing Democrats," Trump tweeted Thursday. "Watch out for them, they are human scum!"

as to # 1....maybe if all of these inquiries hadnt been secret, this would have played out better for the american people, and MAYBE for the President....was he wrong to make that statement? probably....but the democrats have been trying to throw him out of office for three years now....if that were me, i might have a complex too (dontcha think)

as # 2 ....same answer as # 1....i think he really believes he is being persecuted, not prosecuted....and the divide between the democrats and republicans is what has caused this

#3 not only is he fighting the democrats, he is fighting the elitist republicans who cant believe he beat out the other 17 for the nomination....he is everything they hate, so they want him gone also....how should he react to them when time after time they are throwing him under the bus in the media and trying to make him look bad. I dont know how i would react....i am not trump, and personally dont like him....just trying to see why he "might have" said what he said

Now the caveat to all of this is that he is "the President"....he should be above all theis petty crap, and show decorum and grace under all sorts of strain. that isnt the guy the people elected though, is it? never was, and never will be

He will never be Obama when it comes to looking and acting like a President should...so how do we as a nation deal with that?

I just take it one day at a time, and hope any major blunders he makes can be fixed with those under his administration, and that we eventually will get a new president....and this too shall pass