Building 7 . . .

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Interesting...

I had to think about this statement.

Basically, there are only characteristics or pieces of evidence within the 9/11 scenario that can be used to ASSUME there was heat weakened steel, but there is actually no physical/forensic evidence to prove that. Are you in agreement with that Stundie?

Totally agree with this statement Gamolon.

There doesn't appear to be any evidence from the collapse zone in any of the towers analysised to make any determination.

This brings me back to the logic of pantomime debunkers.

They will often claim that fires did it and there is no proof that it was explosives found within the steel. While it is true there is no proof of explosives, it is also true that there isn't any proof that fire/heat weakened steel. You are free to believe in which ever theory you want, but you can't mock other peoples theory for a lack of evidence which is also lacking in your own. The arguments are pointless yet they are asked and repeated over and over again...any evidence of CD in the steel....Which we all know the answer too.

The problem that debunkers don't understand, is that they completely ignore the double standards in the application of criticism. Its a common trait of them.

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Stundie,

Is this the full truth about why you post in places like this? IMHO, 99% of your posts that I have read are to challenge the "OCT pantomime debunkers" regarding their 100% confident belief in the "OCT" and their so-called evidence. I don't think I've ever seen you challenge a "pantomime truther" and their beliefs. You did give me an explanation as to why you seem to challenge "OCT pantomime debunkers" only in a previous post a little while ago.

If you have engaged in discussion regarding the theory you believe in and have provided evidence for those beliefs, I apologize in advance and ask you to please point me to those posts or thread.

EDIT:

I found the explanation for why you seem to challenge the "OCT pantomime debunkers" only...



Are you really posting here because you want to discuss your beliefs about what happened and engage in thoughtful debates about BOTH sides on the coin, or are you here to challenge the "OCT pantomime debunkers" only because you find their hypocrisy "strange and yet fascinating"? I for one would like to have meaningful debates with you as you seem to be one of the few who actually answers questions and provoke thoughtful discussions.

I am quite happy to discuss my beliefs and I would love to have a thoughtful debate about 9/11.

The problem is you'll find is that others...pantomime debunkers...aren't interested in a honest debate, so they will create a noise and distraction.

Like I say, I don't claim to know what happened at the WTC 7 or any other thing on 9/11, I wasn't there or involved. I have my beliefs and I respect others who hold different beliefs who are here to look for answers . I have no respect for those who are not here to mock, laugh and jeer at CT.

So it's nice to see someone who doesn't appear to be following any pantomime debunking traits Gamolon.

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

The problem is: You fail to be able to acknowledge that troofers are a tiny fringe that are universally scorned for their complete idiocy when it comes to their silly theories.

You seem to think I care about twooder groups....I don't. lol

Not just my opinion, but the vast majority of the world thinks that way.

I would ask for evidence but we know you are an evidence dodger! lol

Truthers have never ever been able to prove a single bit of their silly conspiracy...that should trouble you. Unless you are in a cult...

Great, you keep repeating your opinion about conspiracies but this thread is about WTC 7. No whether you think truthers can prove a conspiracy or not.

Again, why are you determined to keep the subject about your opinion of truthers and not the WTC 7.

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Stundie,

So you are saying that for all the photos of bent steel, all the FEAs done that show steel weakening/deforming, and that there were temperatures observed that COULD weaken/deform steel to a certain degree, there is no forensic evidence that differentiates between steel components being bent or connections being sheared (those shown in photos) due to stress loads ONLY or stress loads AND heat?

You are sort of on the right path.

The whole problem is that the data set we have in regards to the WTC is very poor. Most of the steel was shipped off for recycling according to news article and a hearing in the senate. So most of the steel had gone before any could be selected for presveration. There is clearly steel found within the rubble that is evapourated, bent, sheared but none of can be shown to have come from the points of initiation.

Now of course, that is not to say there wasn't any within the rubble which is fine to believe but it cannot be proven to any length or degree.

 

[beefheart]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

You seem to think I care about twooder groups....I don't. lol
I would ask for evidence but we know you are an evidence dodger! lol
Great, you keep repeating your opinion about conspiracies but this thread is about WTC 7. No whether you think truthers can prove a conspiracy or not.

Again, why are you determined to keep the subject about your opinion of truthers and not the WTC 7.

I pointed you to where you need to go, and so have many others here.

You are in a cult, you don't want to think your way out of it. Fascinating how the mind works.

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

I pointed you to where you need to go, and so have many others here.

For what exactly?

You are in a cult, you don't want to think your way out of it. Fascinating how the mind works.

Yes, I'm in a cult with 0 members. :roll:

Anyway, I'm still waiting for anything other than you opinion about what you think about twoofers which isn't what this thread is about.

 

[gamolon]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Sort of right, its those who believe they are debunking but actually aren't doing anything of a sort. They pretend to debunk but they often lack the evidence, or critical thinkings skills to realise they aren't doing anything, in other words its a pantomime.

In other words.

Pseudoskepticism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism

Thanks.

 

[beefheart]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

For what exactly?

Yes, I'm in a cult with 0 members. :roll:

Anyway, I'm still waiting for anything other than you opinion about what you think about twoofers which isn't what this thread is about.

I posted a link to a site that debunks all your silly nonsense.

What do you think about people that believe the earth is flat?

 

[camlok]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

You seem determined to drag me down into the conspiracy weeds, but you're not going to. I'm not interested in any of your pet theories. I don't care.

If anything I am determined to drag you from the depths of ignorance, something that you are dead set against for some strange, unfathomable reason.

How can you be hurt in any way, shape or form by entertaining ideas? That is supposed to be the lifeblood of America and Americans, another of those cruel jokes/lies/fantasies/propaganda.

 

[beefheart]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

If anything I am determined to drag you from the depths of ignorance, something that you are dead set against for some strange, unfathomable reason.

How can you be hurt in any way, shape or form by entertaining ideas? That is supposed to be the lifeblood of America and Americans, another of those cruel jokes/lies/fantasies/propaganda.

Interesting to see how threatened you are by your self doubt.

I hope you can come out of your cult, it will make your life so much better.

 

[camlok]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Interesting to see how r.

Someone badly flunked their right wing meme school.

 

[beefheart]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Someone badly flunked their right wing meme school.

You are seriously deluded if you think I am right wing.

So, do you have any ability to doubt your conspiracy cult? You know that once, you were a rational person. There is help available, you can live a normal life and think normally again. You have to make the choice to live the rest of your life as a ranting conspiracy theorist, mad at the world for no real reason, and gullible as hell, or you can get help and crawl out of the cult rabbit hole.

You have the choice.

Think hard about it, its your future.

 

[nota bene]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

If anything I am determined to drag you from the depths of ignorance, something that you are dead set against for some strange, unfathomable reason.

How can you be hurt in any way, shape or form by entertaining ideas? That is supposed to be the lifeblood of America and Americans, another of those cruel jokes/lies/fantasies/propaganda.

Despite your determination, you will not succeed. As John Heywood said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You will therefore have to content yourself with the smug certainty that you have special knowledge that the willfully ignorant refuse to see.

 

[Quag]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

I saw what I wrote, but I didn't see where I am suppose to have been dishonest. And for pages, you have refuse to point it out despite being ask to be specific.

I said....THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL.

Is there evidence of this heat weakened steel that you believe caused the collapse of the WTC??

If so, present it. Otherwise, it's factually correct. There are no pieces of steel from the WTC which show the floors (Or whatever the hell it is you believe!) failed.

There you go being dishonest again
You truthers jsut cant help but lie

 

[Quag]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Yes, I have given you a good reason to deny the OCT.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL.

Prove that I am lying by providing evidence of the effect heat weakened steel.
Oh by that logic, I'll claim that there was explosives found on the WTC steel and provide no evidence.

Then proclaims it's true and that anyone disagrees is a liar. lol
If...THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL... then what evidence do you think I should supply to prove it??
Yes I do.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL.
What evidence should I provide to prove that...THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL.
Along with not understanding the words specfic, you clearly have major reading comprehension problems.

Where did I claim to provide ebidence.
Again, your opinion is irrelevant. This thread is about the WTC 7 and at the moment, we are discussing whether THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL.

I say there isn't...you think I am lying....show the steel then please?

Otherwise, stop your crying, whinging and bitterness....lol

More lies and still not one piece of evidence from Stundie

 

[Thoreau72]

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

You can lead a man to knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

 

[Quag]

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

You can lead a man to knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

You are proof of this adage

 

[camlok]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Despite your determination, you will not succeed. As John Heywood said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You will therefore have to content yourself with the smug certainty that you have special knowledge that the willfully ignorant refuse to see.

I was joking, nota bene, and you couldn't even grasp that. You revealed very quickly just what a deeply propagandized person you are.

You can lead an American to the truth but you can't make them partake.

You are willing to ignore absolute impossibilities to believe the nonsense fed y'all by your always lying US governments.

But really, NB, come on, if Russia, China, any country tried a ruse something like this, there would be thread after thread after thread mocking these TOTAL IMPOSSIBILITIES.

You folks are thee most brainwashed people on the planet. Four airliners, four million serial numbered parts and not a one has been produced as evidence, ACARS data that shows 911 aircraft still in the air after the alleged crashes.

Just look at your fellow USian posters. Note the complete absence of any evidence being put forward for the USOCT.

The US is one huge kafkaesque nightmare, an Orwellian burlesque.

=============

IT IS CONCLUSIVE - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE WELL AFTER CRASH
UNITED 93 IN THE VICINITY OF FORT WAYNE, INDIANA AND CHAMPAIGN, ILLINOIS AT TIME OF SHANKSVILLE ALLEGED CRASH

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - More information has surfaced which conclusively demonstrates the aircraft reportedly used on 9/11, were airborne well after their alleged crashes. This article supplements our last, "ACARS CONFIRMED - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE LONG AFTER CRASH" in which the ACARS system is explained as well as how to determine if a message were received by the aircraft, along with how ground stations are selected through Flight Tracking Protocol based on messages routed to United 175, N612UA. We now have further evidence which places United 93, N591UA, in the vicinity of Champaign, IL, 500+ miles away from the alleged crash site in Shanksville, PA. This information is further corroborated by a (now former) United Airlines Manager of Flight Dispatch Michael J. Winter.

On January 28, 2002, Mr. Winter gave an interview to the FBI at United Headquarters near Chicago, IL(1). During this interview, Mr. Winter reviewed a list of ACARS messages explaining the contents and which messages were received or rejected. The messages provided below are the most significant and fatal to what we have been told by the 9/11 Commission. Two messages were routed through the Fort Wayne, Indiana remote ground stations (FWA), followed by two more messages which were routed through Champaign, IL (CMI).

IT IS CONCLUSIVE - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE WELL AFTER CRASH

 

[gamolon]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

I am quite happy to discuss my beliefs and I would love to have a thoughtful debate about 9/11.

The problem is you'll find is that others...pantomime debunkers...aren't interested in a honest debate, so they will create a noise and distraction.

Like I say, I don't claim to know what happened at the WTC 7 or any other thing on 9/11, I wasn't there or involved. I have my beliefs and I respect others who hold different beliefs who are here to look for answers . I have no respect for those who are not here to mock, laugh and jeer at CT.

So it's nice to see someone who doesn't appear to be following any pantomime debunking traits Gamolon.

Excellent!

I'll start a new thread to discuss BOTH of our beliefs and the reasons/evidence to support them. We can always ignore the "noise" of posts that do not further the discussion.

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

I posted a link to a site that debunks all your silly nonsense.

Post it then.

What do you think about people that believe the earth is flat?

They are entitled to believe whatever the hell it is they want to believe.

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

There you go being dishonest again

Which part of....."THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL."....do you feel is dishonest?

You could always post evidence disproving it.

You truthers jsut cant help but lie

Until you provide evidence, I'm not the one lying or being dishonest.

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

More lies and still not one piece of evidence from Stundie

So where as I'm saying that "THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL."

You are saying "THERE IS EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL."??

Great, then show us?? lol

 

[stundie]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Excellent!

I'll start a new thread to discuss BOTH of our beliefs and the reasons/evidence to support them. We can always ignore the "noise" of posts that do not further the discussion.

A private thread would probably be better but I'm fine with that.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Excellent!

I'll start a new thread to discuss BOTH of our beliefs and the reasons/evidence to support them. We can always ignore the "noise" of posts that do not further the discussion.

He is ignoring it.

 

[Quag]

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Which part of....."THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTED HEAT WEAKENED STEEL."....do you feel is dishonest?

You could always post evidence disproving it.
Until you provide evidence, I'm not the one lying or being dishonest.

The part where you claimed to have proivided evidence is the lie