**Breaking news from Israel

[Fledermaus]

No you were talking about Israel " crying " and asking for another member for examples of " Israel crying ".......... it's already documented here and easily accessible , so stop trying to misrepresent the truth in a sad and hopeless bid to extricate yourself from that stupid line of inquiry based on a stunning lack of appreciation of the reality. It was yet just the latest absolute howler of logic and reason that is the mainstay of your commentary here , lying to try to shield yourself from the opbvious criticism that would follow such utter nonsense only makes it worse for you. First rule of holes ?

Incorrect. Please fail again.

My question was in response to "Can you post some more deflections please?" in which snakestreacher was blithering about a supposed deflection that didn't exist.

Palestinians in Gaza (and their supporters) have time and again cried that the blockade has prevented construction materials and foodstuffs from entering Gaza. All while using construction materials and foodstuffs to engineer terrorist weapons and infrastructure.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Reasonable debate with people like you is a waste of time.The racism is palpable , tribalism is a human trait and is not just found in areas inhabited by Arabs. You out yourself with stunning regularity

And, where has anybody " excused or igonored " anything. The Phalangists carried out the actual attack , nobody has ignored or excused it , the IDF enabled it and as such are complicite in it in a big way. That's just the facts of the matter. If you want to discuss the broader aspects of the Lebanese/PLO/Israeli/US involvement in that conflict try and do it without having to resort to crass racism and false accusations. See if you can break your own mould even if it is for just this once

lol. Here we go.

Yes yes. Pointing out that there was and is tribalism in Lebanon means that I think it is the only place where tribalism exists.

Except that makes no sense, chief. Like none.

In any event, I guess you don't really want to think about the extent to which tribalism affects different cultures, because trying to understand reality like that would be racist somehow. And they say that leftism is anti-intellectual...

And yes, it is ignored and excused because the only time any "pro-Palestinians" talk or care about massacres of Palestinians is when they try t blame them on the Jews. I'm not sure wen the last time you or anyone like you started a thread on the phalangists and their political behaviour, or their continued conduct in Lebanon, just like there are no threads about what Kuwait and Saudi Arabia did to the Palestinians after the gulf war or the treatment of people of Palestinian descent who were born in Lebanon.

Because deep down, we know YOU DON'T CARE. Whether Jordan killed 10 or 100 or 1000 or 10,000 Palestinians in Black September doesn't matter. Whether Lebanon keeps 100 or 1,000 or 1 million people who are descendants of Palestinian refugees as non-citizens in ghettoized apartheid conditions, you don't care. And whether Christians in Lebanon kill Palestinians or not you don't care. It is only when events are useful for you in attacking the Jewish state in Israel and the legitimacy of Jewish sovereignty that the Palestinians start mattering.

And guess what? We can all see it. It really isn't hard to see, just look at what "pro-Palestinians" post about, talk about, argue about. I mean, what kind of "supporter" tells millions of people they should reject independence and keep fighting by sending their kids to run obstruction for terrorists on a live fire border? How little do you have to care about the actual people to advocate something like that? For what? So that they can keep fighting for an extra few slivers of land? To right abstract "injustices" which are both historically not that unjust, relatively speaking, and not relevant to what you can do to make real people's lives better right now and going forward.

And look. I know you are going to dismiss this like you always do and probably will barely even read this. But it's not wrong. And you progressive leftist globalists have a reckoning of your own coming for how you are using the Palestinians. First it was the Arab states, then it was the communists, and now it's you guys. And the loser in all of it is always the Palestinians - you know, the actual real people, not the abstract ideological struggle of the "Palestinians".

 

[oneworld2]

Make no mistake, I oppose you and this alone makes me anti-violence and anti-murder by nature, since your entire world view is based on pro-murder and pro-violence, specifically against innocents from a nation of less than 10 million people.

So let's take your latest offering of hyperbolic misrepresentation and evident illogicality and shred it for the baseless ad hominem diatribe aimed at actually avoiding the facts and engendering an emotional response that is , in other words..........the standard post you concoct in virtually every thread you stain with your appearance.

If I were truly " pro murder and pro violence " then I would be vehemently against anything that would threaten the cycle of violence and murder that has been the case for so long. In short i would be aginst....

Ceasefires that , by their very nature curtail ( for a while at least while they last ) the continuance of ? Violence and murder. But I am a well documented advocate of a long term ceasefire agreement aimed at creating a climate whereby there might be a chance of a just resolution of the conflict based on the two state solution

You however are a well documented opponent of a ceasefire agreement and have a well documented history of whitewashing/denying/lying about and crucially defending violence so long as it has been carried out by the IDF

Curious that

You are the one that objects strongly to agreements that would curtail the violence/murders , even if only for a while , and I am the one that strongly advocates them. But I am somehow pro violence and you are the peacenik.

My commentary is largely made up of a wish to see the conflict ended in as just a way as possible to ?......... stop the cycle of violence and murder that blights this conflict. Yet we hardly ever here/read you talking about a wish to end the conflict. We just see you supporting/defending the violence of your own side throughout every thread and playing the antisemite card against any that disagree with you and , let's be honest here , support for/defence of virtually every act of violence/murder against non Jews

To conclude and recap, I am an ardent advocate of a long term ceasefire hopefully leading to the resolution of the conflict via a two state solution. Why would somebody support these things that actually serve to stop/cease the cycle of violence and murders if their aim is to promote them ? Surely I would be better doing what you do ? Oppose ceasefires , defend violence and murder and never speak about how this sad situation might actually be brought to an end.

Thus , you don't oppose me in reality because it is your own positions that reek of a a promotion of violence and an ardent defence of it in countless threads here if carried out by your own side. Once more we see how quickly you resort to obvious projection in a bid to derail debate and obscure inconvenient truths. You might be able to fool some dullards and/or partisan hacks here with your nonsense but those that have the capacity to think for themselves have you tagged already , this poster included

Comparing some Palestinians to Nazis is just a bit of icing for the top of your ridiculously biased cake

 

[oneworld2]

Incorrect. Please fail again.

Youre so dishonest it's untrue

post 211

I don't remember Israel crying because building supplies are not available to rebuild/repair infrastructure.....

Can you point it out to me?

You are talking about Israel just like I said you were talking about Israel. You ridiculously try to compare the situation in a place that is undergoing a complete blockade with a place that isn't and wondering why the place that isn't under a blockade isn't " crying " about not having certain materials

Your contribution here is ridiculous imo with the above just another example of how ridiculous

 

[oneworld2]

There you go with the "racism" slur.

What "race" is Palestinian?

Arab, the clue was in the post of mine ( " in areas inhabited by Arabs " ) you evidently didn't read but felt knowledgeable enough to reply to. As I said above, ridiculous and consistantly so

 

[Fledermaus]

Youre so dishonest it's untrue

post 211

You are talking about Israel just like I said you were talking about Israel. You ridiculously try to compare the situation in a place that is undergoing a complete blockade with a place that isn't and wondering why the place that isn't under a blockade isn't " crying " about not having certain materials

Your contribution here is ridiculous imo with the above just another example of how ridiculous

Your intentional ignorance as to the context is a failure on your behalf.

Please try to fail less.

 

[Fledermaus]

Arab, the clue was in the post of mine ( " in areas inhabited by Arabs " ) you evidently didn't read but felt knowledgeable enough to reply to. As I said above, ridiculous and consistantly so

What race are "Arabs"?

 

[oneworld2]

No one assisted them while they were carried out. It's a massacre of one faction in Lebanon by another, and it came in response to a similar massacre from the other side that no one is aware of because Israel isn't mentioned.

Nobody is contesting who actually carried out the massacre, they are countering your attempted whitewash of Israeli complicity in it.

Did the Israeli leadership ( Sharon ) and army/security staff have a meeting where it was agreed to let the phalangist into the camp ? Yes , on the morning of the 15th. according to the Kahan commission

Did the Israeli army have the camp entrances and exits secured ? Yes

Did it control surrounding high buildings and was using them as observation posts including the 7 storey Kuwaiti embassy which gave " an unobstructed and panoramic view" of Sabra and Shatila. ? Yes it did

Did the Israelis transport the Phalangists from the airport they controlled to the areas of the camps in their own vehicles ? Yes they did and allegedly , in some instances , with their Israeli supplied weapons

Did IDF personnel agree to a Phalangist request to fire flares so as to light up the camp at night ? Yes they did and , according to both witnesses from the area and the IDF itself , they lit up the sky over the camps for them.

Add all of this up..........., the ferrying of them from the airport to the camps , the guidance of and allowing of them in by the IDF. The use of flares to assist them.

Are we seriously to believe that they didn't hear the gunshots , see the civilians being lined up and shot from their high up vantage points under the light of their own flares ?

Nah , they were complicit in that massacre and your obvious attempts to whitewash the actions of Israeli military during that massacre , something you do every time anyway , are just a ridiculous defence of those that enabled others to do their own dirty work for them in the form of the violent murder of innocents. Ironcic in the extreme considering the comments you are making about others here

 

[oneworld2]

Your intentional ignorance as to the context is a failure on your behalf.

Please try to fail less.

There was no failure by me, I quoted you saying what I said you had said and showed how bizarre a view it was. Job done , move on

 

[Fledermaus]

There was no failure by me, I quoted you saying what I said you had said and showed how bizarre a view it was. Job done , move on

Your statement show you are still confused....

And I agree. Lets move on.

 

[oneworld2]

lol. Here we go.

Yes yes. Pointing out that there was and is tribalism in Lebanon means that I think it is the only place where tribalism exists.

Except that makes no sense, chief. Like none.

In any event, I guess you don't really want to think about the extent to which tribalism affects different cultures, because trying to understand reality like that would be racist somehow. And they say that leftism is anti-intellectual...

.

Your comment was actually " the tribe-based attitudes in Lebanon and the wider middle east," which you follow up here with " means that I think it is the only place where tribalism exists."

It exists everywhere humans live because it is a human trait, that's the whole point...................where doesn't it exist is the next obvious way to close the net on you ?

It's like when you want people to believe that " Arabs are dishonest " without qualifying it with " just like every other group " meaning there are dishonest and honest people in every group because , it's a human trait too

You really are completely transparent even if you think you are not

 

[oneworld2]

Your statement show you are still confused....

And I agree. Lets move on.

Nope, the confusion is definitely with those that don't understand why a place that isn't under a complete blockade and able to trade freely with whoever would be struggling like another place that IS under a complete blockade

With that level of comprehension I fully understand why it would suit you to move on, the parting shot projection you engaged in doesn't alter that and hasn't spared any blushes

 

[oneworld2]

And yes, it is ignored and excused because the only time any "pro-Palestinians" talk or care about massacres of Palestinians is when they try t blame them on the Jews. I'm not sure wen the last time you or anyone like you started a thread on the phalangists and their political behaviour, or their continued conduct in Lebanon, just like there are no threads about what Kuwait and Saudi Arabia did to the Palestinians after the gulf war or the treatment of people of Palestinian descent who were born in Lebanon.

Because deep down, we know YOU DON'T CARE. Whether Jordan killed 10 or 100 or 1000 or 10,000 Palestinians in Black September doesn't matter. Whether Lebanon keeps 100 or 1,000 or 1 million people who are descendants of Palestinian refugees as non-citizens in ghettoized apartheid conditions, you don't care. And whether Christians in Lebanon kill Palestinians or not you don't care. It is only when events are useful for you in attacking the Jewish state in Israel and the legitimacy of Jewish sovereignty that the Palestinians start mattering.

And guess what? We can all see it. It really isn't hard to see, just look at what "pro-Palestinians" post about, talk about, argue about. I mean, what kind of "supporter" tells millions of people they should reject independence and keep fighting by sending their kids to run obstruction for terrorists on a live fire border? How little do you have to care about the actual people to advocate something like that? For what? So that they can keep fighting for an extra few slivers of land? To right abstract "injustices" which are both historically not that unjust, relatively speaking, and not relevant to what you can do to make real people's lives better right now and going forward.

And look. I know you are going to dismiss this like you always do and probably will barely even read this. But it's not wrong. And you progressive leftist globalists have a reckoning of your own coming for how you are using the Palestinians. First it was the Arab states, then it was the communists, and now it's you guys. And the loser in all of it is always the Palestinians - you know, the actual real people, not the abstract ideological struggle of the "Palestinians".

Your tone tells me that you really felt the burn wrt those racist comments I exposed. Stop making them and it stops me being able to highlight them , take some responsibility lol

There is an obvious couple of points that completely undermine the little diatribe above

A If there were no Zionist project in history there would be no scattered Palestinians being abused at the hands of other nations/peoples would there ? That's why when you start with all of that " the Arabs hate us " , like it is a irrational thing , it always makes me sigh for the lack of appreciation for the damage and arrested development the Zionist project has created in the region. The West bears as much if not more responsiblity for these things than do the Jewish people imho but at least people should understand how much damage the creation of Israel has brought to the region

B People are also not " rejecting independence ". They are rejecting the negation of independence and the locking in of servitude and hardship in a binding agreement aimed at letting the world forget about the Palestinians. I always support a just settlement remember. You support the offing of the |Palestinians from the areas Israel wants in the WB and their subsequent fragmentation in an none autonomous state light in a stonewall case of " ghettoized apartheid conditions ". Maybe you only find it appalling when Arabs do it to eachother with Jews being okay seeing as it's for their benefit , who knows

C The injustices are very profound and easily understood and your dismissal of them is actually just another sign that it is yourself that doesn't care

D Support a just resolution based on respect and the law instead of just moaning that the palestinians still refuse to accept the ongoing denial of any authentic autonomy and for that you will have to see them as people just like other people instead of that racist lens that paints a warped picture of the situation

 

[Fledermaus]

Nope, the confusion is definitely with those that don't understand why a place that isn't under a complete blockade and able to trade freely with whoever would be struggling like another place that IS under a complete blockade

With that level of comprehension I fully understand why it would suit you to move on, the parting shot projection you engaged in doesn't alter that and hasn't spared any blushes

Rather than move on you choose to fail again.

Mission accomplished.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Your comment was actually " the tribe-based attitudes in Lebanon and the wider middle east," which you follow up here with " means that I think it is the only place where tribalism exists."

It exists everywhere humans live because it is a human trait, that's the whole point...................where doesn't it exist is the next obvious way to close the net on you ?

It's like when you want people to believe that " Arabs are dishonest " without qualifying it with " just like every other group " meaning there are dishonest and honest people in every group because , it's a human trait too

You really are completely transparent even if you think you are not

I told you you would ignore what I wrote.

I owe myself a dollar for winning that bet...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CJ 2.0]

Your tone tells me that you really felt the burn wrt those racist comments I exposed. Stop making them and it stops me being able to highlight them , take some responsibility lol

There is an obvious couple of points that completely undermine the little diatribe above

A If there were no Zionist project in history there would be no scattered Palestinians being abused at the hands of other nations/peoples would there ? That's why when you start with all of that " the Arabs hate us " , like it is a irrational thing , it always makes me sigh for the lack of appreciation for the damage and arrested development the Zionist project has created in the region. The West bears as much if not more responsiblity for these things than do the Jewish people imho but at least people should understand how much damage the creation of Israel has brought to the region

B People are also not " rejecting independence ". They are rejecting the negation of independence and the locking in of servitude and hardship in a binding agreement aimed at letting the world forget about the Palestinians. I always support a just settlement remember. You support the offing of the |Palestinians from the areas Israel wants in the WB and their subsequent fragmentation in an none autonomous state light in a stonewall case of " ghettoized apartheid conditions ". Maybe you only find it appalling when Arabs do it to eachother with Jews being okay seeing as it's for their benefit , who knows

C The injustices are very profound and easily understood and your dismissal of them is actually just another sign that it is yourself that doesn't care

D Support a just resolution based on respect and the law instead of just moaning that the palestinians still refuse to accept the ongoing denial of any authentic autonomy and for that you will have to see them as people just like other people instead of that racist lens that paints a warped picture of the situation

A. If there was no zionist project there would be no Palestinians period, which means that the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, the wb and gaza would have the same standards of living, civil rights, and economic indicators as egptians, gazans and syrians, which are all lower.

You are also ignoring the point, keeping your focus on Israel’s existence and challenging that rather than focusing on the Palestinians and what kind of treatment they get from others.

Your argument is also the same as “if it wasn’t for the abolitionists you never would have had the kkk”. Just a dodge to avoid dealing with reality.

B. They are and have 100% rejected independence where it was coupled with giving up their claim to Israel.

C. The i justices are real, just like the countless others, many much worse, that happened in the 1940s. They continue not because of Israel but because of Arab state conduct and Palestinian rejectionism

D. Support for a just resolution doesn’t need law at all. It means dealing with how to improve lives for people now, not getting a do over on what has happened. You focus on “justice” so that you can keep chirping against Israel’s existence.

And seriously. “The Burn”? For some empty typical diversionary leftist screed about how observing cultures affect attitudes and behaviour of people within those cultures is racist? Owwwie. It’s soooo hottttt. Such burning...

You do make me laugh sometimes. Cause if anything shows “the burn” it is your failure to recognize the double standard that you apply to Israel and the blinders about the Palestinians’ treatment by others or any possible concern about that or the actual lives of Palestinians.

Once again, the fundamental exposure of you and folks like you with all your posts pretending to care about the Palestinians:

Whether Jordan killed 10 or 100 or 1000 or 10,000 Palestinians in Black September doesn't matter. Whether Lebanon keeps 100 or 1,000 or 1 million people who are descendants of Palestinian refugees as non-citizens in ghettoized apartheid conditions, you don't care. And whether Christians in Lebanon kill Palestinians or not you don't care.

And your only response to that is not to deal with any of it other than to say it is Israel’s fault for existing.

The jig is up, chief.

 

[Apocalypse]

Nobody is contesting who actually carried out the massacre

Yet the only time you'd mention the words "Sabra and Shatila" are in yet more desperate attempts to go after Israelis.
The actual murderers mean nothing to you it seems. The massacre is meaningless to you outside the Israeli connection.
Just like the massacre this was in reply to was meaningless to you and never mentioned.
Your ilk only use corpses of one side to promote corpses at another, on par your pro-violence agenda.

If I were truly " pro murder and pro violence " then I would be vehemently against anything that would threaten the cycle of violence and murder that has been the case for so long. In short i would be aginst....

Ceasefires that , by their very nature curtail ( for a while at least while they last ) the continuance of ? Violence and murder. But I am a well documented advocate of a long term ceasefire agreement aimed at creating a climate whereby there might be a chance of a just resolution of the conflict based on the two state solution

Being against a ceasefire with Hamas, like being against a ceasefire with the Nazis at the time, isn't pro-violence.
You're using the nature of the word "ceasefire" to claim that your views are pro-peace, while in reality you just don't want the bad guys to be stopped. You want them to be able to create corpses, and for that you need to support a ceasefire that will allow them to maintain their very existence.

Again, make no mistake where I'm standing, that is against the violent thugs and for a conclusive peace on Earth, entirely. The very opposition to you is an anti-violence and anti-murder stance.

 

[oneworld2]

Rather than move on you choose to fail again.

Mission accomplished.

Nope, rather than admit that you lied about the subject matter of the post I replied to being about Israel and the point it was trying to make was insanely stupid you tried to make out that there was some confusion in my understanding. I showed , conclusively, that on both points you were wrong and also being dishonest about the exchange itself.

If your mission was to show your own stupidity and dishonesty then you have definitely accomplished it here

 

[oneworld2]

Yet the only time you'd mention the words "Sabra and Shatila" are in yet more desperate attempts to go after Israelis.
The actual murderers mean nothing to you it seems. The massacre is meaningless to you outside the Israeli connection.
Just like the massacre this was in reply to was meaningless to you and never mentioned.
Your ilk only use corpses of one side to promote corpses at another, on par your pro-violence agenda



Being against a ceasefire with Hamas, like being against a ceasefire with the Nazis at the time, isn't pro-violence.
You're using the nature of the word "ceasefire" to claim that your views are pro-peace, while in reality you just don't want the bad guys to be stopped. You want them to be able to create corpses, and for that you need to support a ceasefire that will allow them to maintain their very existence.

Again, make no mistake where I'm standing, that is against the violent thugs and for a conclusive peace on Earth, entirely. The very opposition to you is an anti-violence and anti-murder stance.

Rant away, it's actually quite amusing watching you spout off about your own alleged moral superiority whilst all the while supporting and/or defending those that are guilty of or complicit in barbaric acts of violence and abuses so long as they are Jewish or sticking it to percieved or real enemies of the Jewish state. It's all you really ever do and have in the locker tbh but it's just a predictable reaction when your claims are shown to be just Israeli hasbara nonsense

Why?

Because.........What's really noticeable is that you edited out of my post everything, and there was a lot of supporting evidence for it and more data I could have added , that showed , conclusively , the Israeli government/armys complicity/assistance in /enablement of the massacring of those innocent people living in those camps which consisted almost entirely of old men , women and kids. This despite your original claim that there was no assistance.

You didn't even try to refute anything about it and just thought you could walk away from the claim whilst having the temerity of accusing others of all sorts of intentionally inflammatory nonsense that might serve to distract them into a debate outside of the above.


Ain't gonna work, your claim that the Israelis didn't assist the Philangists or enable the massacres to take place in the first place is propaganda junk that the facts completely destroy and that's why your only response it to avoid them completely and attack those that supported their claim with them.

You have had one of your ad hominem factless posts replied to already so count yourself lucky for that much at least, discussing the factual record is not really what you are known for here

 

[Apocalypse]

Rant away, it's actually quite amusing watching you spout off about your own alleged moral superiority whilst all the while supporting and/or defending those that are guilty of or complicit in barbaric acts of violence and abuses so long as they are Jewish or sticking it to percieved or real enemies of the Jewish state. It's all you really ever do and have in the locker tbh but it's just a predictable reaction when your claims are shown to be just Israeli hasbara nonsense

Why?

Because.........What's really noticeable is that you edited out of my post everything, and there was a lot of supporting evidence for it and more data I could have added , that showed , conclusively , the Israeli government/armys complicity/assistance in /enablement of the massacring of those innocent people living in those camps which consisted almost entirely of old men , women and kids. This despite your original claim that there was no assistance.

You didn't even try to refute anything about it and just thought you could walk away from the claim whilst having the temerity of accusing others of all sorts of intentionally inflammatory nonsense that might serve to distract them into a debate outside of the above.


Ain't gonna work, your claim that the Israelis didn't assist the Philangists or enable the massacres to take place in the first place is propaganda junk that the facts completely destroy and that's why your only response it to avoid them completely and attack those that supported their claim with them.

You have had one of your ad hominem factless posts replied to already so count yourself lucky for that much at least, discussing the factual record is not really what you are known for here

Again you do not care for the Sabra and Shatila massacre or the massacres before it outside of the Israeli connection.
You're using the dead bodies to serve your agenda to create other dead bodies, that's all there is to it - your pro-murder ideology.

The "moral superiority" as you call it is crystal clear, since one side is defending death and murderers at all cost and the other opposes it.
Deal with it.

 

[oneworld2]

A. If there was no zionist project there would be no Palestinians period, which means that the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, the wb and gaza would have the same standards of living, civil rights, and economic indicators as egptians, gazans and syrians, which are all lower.

You are also ignoring the point, keeping your focus on Israel’s existence and challenging that rather than focusing on the Palestinians and what kind of treatment they get from others.

Your argument is also the same as “if it wasn’t for the abolitionists you never would have had the kkk”. Just a dodge to avoid dealing with reality.

Saying" if there was no Israel there would be no Palestinians " is like saying" if there was no USA there would be no native Americans" imo. They were there and had been there for a very very long time, they didn't start appearing in the late 19th century like the European Zionists had. Regardles of whether a Jewish state was set up it is clear that those that had lived under the Ottoman empire went on to live in states of their own all over the ME. It is thus ridiculous to try to peddle the idea that the Palestinians would have somehow remained a British colony if it were not for Zionism.

And like most of your commentary you tend to start things at curiously daft places in order to present a skewed view. Such as the reference to the Abolitionists. Clue , if there had been no slave trade to begin with there would have been nobody needed to take on the mantle of Abolitionists later on. Obvious and logical really but not to people like yourself apparently

 

[Hondo]

 

[oneworld2]

Again you do not care for the Sabra and Shatila massacre or the massacres before it outside of the Israeli connection.
You're using the dead bodies to serve your agenda to create other dead bodies, that's all there is to it - your pro-murder ideology.

The "moral superiority" as you call it is crystal clear, since one side is defending death and murderers at all cost and the other opposes it.
Deal with it.

Rant on, but the truth remains that the facts of Sabra and Shatila massacres , contrary to your claim , show that not only was it assisted by Israelis , it was actually completely enabled by them. Those innocent people at least deserve to have the truth spoken about how and who was involved in the crimes committed against them that led to their horrific and surely terrifying deaths. Something you seek to deny them whilst ridiculously implying that you care about them

So , once again we see your bid to distort the factual record in the service of Israeli propaganda being shown for the obvious misrepresentation , and in this case pretty sickening and odious misrepresentation, it is. It is also a bid to hide from view the actions of those that played a crucial role , the crucial role in fact , in the enabling of the massacres themselves knowing full well the likely outcome of their decisions , which is a defence of those complicit in the violent deaths of almost entirely innocent old men , women and kids . People should probably remove any irony meters that might be in the vicinity bearing in mind your self aggrandizing alleged positions of the last couple of posts here.

 

[oneworld2]

B. They are and have 100% rejected independence where it was coupled with giving up their claim to Israel.

You must have a very perculiar personal definition of what it is to be independent to come out with such nonsense. As I said to you earlier , and afair don't recall you responding , the chief negotiator on the Israeli side is on record as saying that had he been negotiating for the Palestinian side he too would have rejected the offers you claim , with nothing being offered to support it , are offers of authentic independence . I suggest that they are in fact anything but authentic independence that would lock in forever many of the dire circumstances that the people find themselves in and completely undermine the viability of the new state

 

[Apocalypse]

Rant on, but the truth remains that the facts of Sabra and Shatila massacres , contrary to your claim , show that not only was it assisted by Israelis , it was actually completely enabled by them. Those innocent people at least deserve to have the truth spoken about how and who was involved in the crimes committed against them that led to their horrific and surely terrifying deaths. Something you seek to deny them whilst ridiculously implying that you care about them

So , once again we see your bid to distort the factual record in the service of Israeli propaganda being shown for the obvious misrepresentation , and in this case pretty sickening and odious misrepresentation, it is. It is also a bid to hide from view the actions of those that played a crucial role , the crucial role in fact , in the enabling of the massacres themselves knowing full well the likely outcome of their decisions , which is a defence of those complicit in the violent deaths of almost entirely innocent old men , women and kids . People should probably remove any irony meters that might be in the vicinity bearing in mind your self aggrandizing alleged positions of the last couple of posts here.

Your ilk have made Sabra and Shatila about Israel instead of about the faction that was engaging in a mass murder, that's how much your ilk care for corpses and that's how much your ilk uses corpses to create corpses elsewhere.