**Breaking news from Israel

[oneworld2]

Links were previously given. And responded to by you.

You are now practicing dishonesty.

Something shady about your reluctance to actually show the exchange with the links despite obviously having the capacity to do so

Considering you have form for this sort of dishonest use of links ( like using links that misrepresented the facts of an incident to claim that Palestinians " rip out their own sewage system so as to attack Israel ") yourself I will just write this off as just the latest of many misrepresentations you are trying to push in your bid to demonize the Palestinians and any that choose to offer some material that supports their positions on some things. I can't comment on what isn't available to comment on

 

[Fledermaus]

Something shady about your reluctance to actually show the exchange with the links despite obviously having the capacity to do so

Considering you have form for this sort of dishonest use of links ( like using links that misrepresented the facts of an incident to claim that Palestinians " rip out their own sewage system so as to attack Israel ") yourself I will just write this off as just the latest of many misrepresentations you are trying to push in your bid to demonize the Palestinians and any that choose to offer some material that supports their positions on some things. I can't comment on what isn't available to comment on

More prattle about a fight you lost long ago.

You can't stand to admit the tunnels you cherish have been used not for "defense" but for terror and the users of those tunnels are terrorists.

Therefore you desperately try to focus on one exceedingly minor tidbit so you can ignore the whole. Like someone who notices an oak leaf in a stand of maples and keeps crying that this is a forest of oaks....

 

[oneworld2]

More prattle about a fight you lost long ago.

You can't stand to admit the tunnels you cherish have been used not for "defense" but for terror and the users of those tunnels are terrorists.

Therefore you desperately try to focus on one exceedingly minor tidbit so you can ignore the whole. Like someone who notices an oak leaf in a stand of maples and keeps crying that this is a forest of oaks....

Not at all and don't delude yourself that you have won this fight lol

When people are forced to come out with stuff like..." the tunnels you cherish " you KNOW they have lost whatever battle they thought they were winning .

As for the tunnels they have been used for defensive and offensive operations ,though i still doubt the claim that rockets have been set off from the entrances/exits and the situation is rather that they have been fired from near to them.

The tunnels that I said lead into Gaza have been used to attack and ambush IDF personnel in Israel itself and not once have civilians been attacked from combatants exiting into Israel from them. That's just a fact you and others hate to admit for obvious reasons. Some Palestinians have engaged in terrorism and the same people have also engaged in legitimate armed struggle to free themselves from Israeli occupation and/or domination that blights their lives and destroys their rights. That's a fact too so too bad for you that you refuse to recognize them as such and all the better for me to show just how warped and bigoted your commentary is as a result

BTW

Your lies abaout the " ripping out of existing plumbing " have already been thoroughly shown to be untrue and just desperate bids to try to demonize the Palestinians themselves , something of you MO imo

 

[Fledermaus]

Not at all and don't delude yourself that you have won this fight lol

When people are forced to come out with stuff like..." the tunnels you cherish " you KNOW they have lost whatever battle they thought they were winning .

As for the tunnels they have been used for defensive and offensive operations ,though i still doubt the claim that rockets have been set off from the entrances/exits and the situation is rather that they have been fired from near to them.

The tunnels that I said lead into Gaza have been used to attack and ambush IDF personnel in Israel itself and not once have civilians been attacked from combatants exiting into Israel from them. That's just a fact you and others hate to admit for obvious reasons. Some Palestinians have engaged in terrorism and the same people have also engaged in legitimate armed struggle to free themselves from Israeli occupation and/or domination that blights their lives and destroys their rights. That's a fact too so too bad for you that you refuse to recognize them as such and all the better for me to show just how warped and bigoted your commentary is as a result

BTW

Your lies abaout the " ripping out of existing plumbing " have already been thoroughly shown to be untrue and just desperate bids to try to demonize the Palestinians themselves , something of you MO imo

Another long diatribe where you focus on a single leaf while ignoring the forest around you.

FACT: The Palestinians of Gaza have diverted items meant for peaceful purposes and rebuilding and turned them into weapons for terror.....

FACT: They waste massive amounts of construction materials on terror tunnels.

FACT : Fertilizer is used for bombs rather than farms.

FACT: Agricultural/water piping intended for rebuding becomes Qassam rockets.

FACT: Sugar, a food staple, is used as a propellant component.

The FACTS are Palestinians of Gaza need no demonizing for their terror. Their acts speak for themselves.

And you wish to obsess on a leaf.

 

[oneworld2]

Another long diatribe where you focus on a single leaf while ignoring the forest around you.

Nope, my post contained multiple points regarding the tunnels in Gaza

FACT: The Palestinians of Gaza have diverted items meant for peaceful purposes and rebuilding and turned them into weapons for terror.....

Nobody has contested that some materials have been diverted away from civil projects to military/defence projects, so you appear to be labouring the point for no real reason other than to use selective facts in order to demonize the entire Gazan population

The tunnels also serve as defensive constructions along with smuggling capabilities without which the situation in Gaza would be even worse. The tunnel economy is enormous and a crucial part of life and death in Gaza. You seem to be largely clueless about it and just want to focus on the " terror " element they can and have also presented

FACT: They waste massive amounts of construction materials on terror tunnels.

Again nobody has contested that construction materials have been diverted for the tunnel systems . See above about the other crucial roles the Gazan tunnel systems fullfil for a better understanding instead of just focusing on one aspect of their existence.

FACT : Fertilizer is used for bombs rather than farms.

Some of it is but not all of it. We saw the same thing when you tried to make out that virtually all construction materials were being diverted when clearly that view is false

FACT: Agricultural/water piping intended for rebuding becomes Qassam rockets.

Once again we know some of it will have been but not all of it

FACT: Sugar, a food staple, is used as a propellant component.

Some of it will be but not all

The FACTS are Palestinians of Gaza need no demonizing for their terror. Their acts speak for themselves.

You are talking about a small minority of the people of Gaza and USING them to try to smear the entire population in an obviously highly selective and biased way. It is the tried and tested means by which all hate group members try to conduct the debate and shutdown genuine discussion

And you wish to obsess on a leaf.

Evidently it is yourself that wants to " obsess " about the Palestinians of Gaza and paint them all as terrorists , the message is loud and clear but you will not get it out without the fight to show it for what it really is.

 

[Fledermaus]

Nope, my post contained multiple points regarding the tunnels in Gaza.

Your opinion on tunnels.

Nobody has contested that some materials have been diverted away from civil projects to military/defence projects, so you appear to be labouring the point for no real reason other than to use selective facts in order to demonize the entire Gazan population.

Some materials.... OMFG. Your must be joking. Some.

And what "defense" is afforded by those tunnels penetrating Israel? NONE

And what "defense" is afforded by those tunnels being used as rocket storage and launch sites for rockets? NONE

And the tunnels facilitate the smuggling of even MORE materials to facilitate MORE terrorist attacks...

The tunnels are there to facilitate the killing of Israelis.

Again nobody has contested that construction materials have been diverted for the tunnel systems . See above about the other crucial roles the Gazan tunnel systems fullfil for a better understanding instead of just focusing on one aspect of their existence.

See above.

Some of it is but not all of it.

STRAWMAN noted. No one said ALL.

Just another example of you trying to minimize the use of items supposedly for peaceful purposes being used for terror.

We saw the same thing when you tried to make out that virtually all construction materials were being diverted when clearly that view is false

STRAWMAN noted. No one said ALL.

Just another example of you trying to minimize the use of items supposedly for peaceful purposes being used for terror.

Once again we know some of it will have been but not all of it

STRAWMAN noted. No one said ALL.

Just another example of you trying to minimize the use of items supposedly for peaceful purposes being used for terror.

You are talking about a small minority of the people of Gaza and USING them to try to smear the entire population in an obviously highly selective and biased way. It is the tried and tested means by which all hate group members try to conduct the debate and shutdown genuine discussion

A small minority elected by the majority of Palestinians IIRC...

True?.

Speaking of "hate groups".... What would you call someone so invested in killing innocent Israeli citizens that they would divert massive amounts off desperately needed (according to blockade foes) building supplies to projects that do nothing but promote terror.

 

[snakestretcher]

This is the what? Millionth time you repeat such nonsense?
And it is based on what exactly? The overwhelming majority of Palestinians aren't violent.
It looks like just the same amount of every other Islamist country in conflict out there - Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.

You're jumping through hoops to promote murderous violence against completely innocent people.

"Completely innocent" Israeli war criminals you mean. Targeting civilians, using human shields, Sabra and Shatila massacres etc., etc. You mentioned 'murderous violence', so those are just a couple of Israeli examples. Would you like some more?

Israeli Newspaper Haaretz: IDF Intentionally Targeting Civilians in Gaza

I eagerly anticipate your predictable angry and outraged sanctimonious response in defence of your 'completely innocent' Israelis.

Category:Israeli war crimes - Wikipedia

 

[snakestretcher]

Another long diatribe where you focus on a single leaf while ignoring the forest around you.

FACT: The Palestinians of Gaza have diverted items meant for peaceful purposes and rebuilding and turned them into weapons for terror.....

FACT: They waste massive amounts of construction materials on terror tunnels.

FACT : Fertilizer is used for bombs rather than farms.

FACT: Agricultural/water piping intended for rebuding becomes Qassam rockets.

FACT: Sugar, a food staple, is used as a propellant component.

The FACTS are Palestinians of Gaza need no demonizing for their terror. Their acts speak for themselves.

And you wish to obsess on a leaf.

Hmm, seems they learned well from their Israeli terrorist exemplars.

Jewish terrorism | The Times of Israel

 

[Fledermaus]

Hmm, seems they learned well from their Israeli terrorist exemplars.

Jewish terrorism | The Times of Israel

I don't remember Israel crying because building supplies are not available to rebuild/repair infrastructure.....

Can you point it out to me?

 

[snakestretcher]

I don't remember Israel crying because building supplies are not available to rebuild/repair infrastructure.....

Can you point it out to me?

Can you post some more deflections please?

 

[Fledermaus]

Can you post some more deflections please?

A deflection from what?

I don't remember Israel crying because building supplies are not available to rebuild/repair infrastructure.....

Can you point it out to me?

 

[Apocalypse]

"Completely innocent" Israeli war criminals you mean

I'm talking about innocent civillians, whether you consider Jews to be worthy of a murder or not is your own radical inhuman opinion, but the fact is that being Jewish doesn't make a person not innocent and the targeting of civilians is indeed the targeting of completely innocent men, women and children.

You mentioned 'murderous violence', so those are just a couple of Israeli examples

No, Sabra and Shatila massacres were done by Lebanese people. The uproar at the time was against Sharon not doing something to prevent it, not for directing it or taking part in the massacre. The fact that you like many before you take issue with the Israeli lack of intervention more than with the actual murderers says exactly how much you don't really care for the innocents who were murdered, you just use them to promote the murder of other innocents that you wish to see murdered.

It's pathetic just as much as it's savagely inhuman.

 

[oneworld2]

A deflection from what?

I don't remember Israel crying because building supplies are not available to rebuild/repair infrastructure.....

Can you point it out to me?

Why would Israel be " crying "( childish terminology imo that surely should have read" Israelis " ) because of a shortage of building/construction materials ? Are they living under an Arab blockade that stops their ability to trade/import goods and materials ? No.

This is such basic understanding it beggars belief that you expect anyone on any side here to consider your views as being grounded in any sort of knowledge and/or reason.

I mean wow !!

 

[oneworld2]

I'm talking about innocent civillians, whether you consider Jews to be worthy of a murder or not is your own radical inhuman opinion, but the fact is that being Jewish doesn't make a person not innocent and the targeting of civilians is indeed the targeting of completely innocent men, women and children.



No, Sabra and Shatila massacres were done by Lebanese people. The uproar at the time was against Sharon not doing something to prevent it, not for directing it or taking part in the massacre. The fact that you like many before you take issue with the Israeli lack of intervention more than with the actual murderers says exactly how much you don't really care for the innocents who were murdered, you just use them to promote the murder of other innocents that you wish to see murdered.

It's pathetic just as much as it's savagely inhuman.

Trying to down play the Israeli role in the Sabra and Shatila massacre by citing that it was actually carried out by Phalangists is a true indication that the person expressing it " doesn't care " about the innocent people murdered during it imo

 

[CJ 2.0]

Trying to down play the Israeli role in the Sabra and Shatila massacre by citing that it was actually carried out by Phalangists is a true indication that the person expressing it " doesn't care " about the innocent people murdered during it imo

Or an accurate reflection of reality. You know, or that.

 

[Fledermaus]

Why would Israel ....

We were talking about Gaza... You know. Palestinians.

 

[Fledermaus]

Trying to down play the Israeli role in the Sabra and Shatila massacre by citing that it was actually carried out by Phalangists is a true indication that the person expressing it " doesn't care " about the innocent people murdered during it imo

Israel SHOULD have stopped it. But Israel DIDN'T cause it.

A huge difference.

 

[Apocalypse]

Trying to down play the Israeli role in the Sabra and Shatila massacre by citing that it was actually carried out by Phalangists is a true indication that the person expressing it " doesn't care " about the innocent people murdered during it imo

It's a matter of fact. No one is downplaying the lack of intervention, but your ilk are using death to create death elsewhere, the living never concerned you and this is showing in your lack of interest with blaming the actual murderers.

 

[CJ 2.0]

It's a matter of fact. No one is downplaying the lack of intervention, but your ilk are using death to create death elsewhere, the living never concerned you and this is showing in your lack of interest with blaming the actual murderers.

What do you mean? He and his anti-Israel progressive ilk have totally seen the massacre as a manifestation of a complex series of phenomena in Lebanon that related both to PLO support for those who brutally treated the phalangists, the tribe-based attitudes in Lebanon and the wider middle east, and the treatment of Palestinians kept in ghettoed apartheid status in Lebanon.

Oh wait, they excuse and ignore all that and only ever think about or raise the massacre to blame the Jews who didn’t even do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oneworld2]

Or an accurate reflection of reality. You know, or that.

The reality was that the IDF allowed the phalangists in , recall they controlled who went in who came out etc, at the time they were most enraged ( in the immediate aftermath of the assassination of their leader ) and then decided to ignore the murderous onslaught going on in the camps whilst providing flares so as the slaughter could be better carried out during the night.

Your commentary shows a complete lack of knowledge and worse still an appalling lack of consideration for the slaughter of the innocent people in the camps over them days/nights. It's interesting that you are always very quick to play the " you wanna just see more Jews killed " or the " you failed to protect Jews " ( so presumeably they now have the right to aid and abet slaughters as well as carry out their own ) cards but when it comes to any considerations for the lives and/or appaling deaths suffered in those camps we see how flippant and indifferent you are.

There's nothing else left to say really and what does come to mind would only serve your own interests if it was expressed.

 

[oneworld2]

It's a matter of fact. No one is downplaying the lack of intervention, but your ilk are using death to create death elsewhere, the living never concerned you and this is showing in your lack of interest with blaming the actual murderers.

It's a matter of downplaying the crucial israeli role that ALLOWED those massacres to take place and assisted them while they were being carried out, the " lack of intervention " is a complete misrepresentation of how those events occured and is aimed at whitewashing IDF complicity in the slaughter.

As for me wanting to " create death elsewhere " ( assuming you mean Jewish lives , the only ones you really care about imo ) recall it is me and not you that enthusiastically supports a long tern truce between Hamas and Israel so that the deaths on both sides can stop and yourself that vehemently opposes it. So I suggest you are just engaging in one of your favourite pastimes here , projection

 

[oneworld2]

What do you mean? He and his anti-Israel progressive ilk have totally seen the massacre as a manifestation of a complex series of phenomena in Lebanon that related both to PLO support for those who brutally treated the phalangists, the tribe-based attitudes in Lebanon and the wider middle east, and the treatment of Palestinians kept in ghettoed apartheid status in Lebanon.

Oh wait, they excuse and ignore all that and only ever think about or raise the massacre to blame the Jews who didn’t even do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reasonable debate with people like you is a waste of time.The racism is palpable , tribalism is a human trait and is not just found in areas inhabited by Arabs. You out yourself with stunning regularity

And, where has anybody " excused or igonored " anything. The Phalangists carried out the actual attack , nobody has ignored or excused it , the IDF enabled it and as such are complicite in it in a big way. That's just the facts of the matter. If you want to discuss the broader aspects of the Lebanese/PLO/Israeli/US involvement in that conflict try and do it without having to resort to crass racism and false accusations. See if you can break your own mould even if it is for just this once

 

[oneworld2]

We were talking about Gaza... You know. Palestinians.

No you were talking about Israel " crying " and asking for another member for examples of " Israel crying ".......... it's already documented here and easily accessible , so stop trying to misrepresent the truth in a sad and hopeless bid to extricate yourself from that stupid line of inquiry based on a stunning lack of appreciation of the reality. It was yet just the latest absolute howler of logic and reason that is the mainstay of your commentary here , lying to try to shield yourself from the opbvious criticism that would follow such utter nonsense only makes it worse for you. First rule of holes ?

 

[Apocalypse]

It's a matter of downplaying the crucial israeli role that ALLOWED those massacres to take place and assisted them while they were being carried out, the " lack of intervention " is a complete misrepresentation of how those events occured and is aimed at whitewashing IDF complicity in the slaughter.

As for me wanting to " create death elsewhere " ( assuming you mean Jewish lives , the only ones you really care about imo ) recall it is me and not you that enthusiastically supports a long tern truce between Hamas and Israel so that the deaths on both sides can stop and yourself that vehemently opposes it. So I suggest you are just engaging in one of your favourite pastimes here , projection

No one assisted them while they were carried out. It's a massacre of one faction in Lebanon by another, and it came in response to a similar massacre from the other side that no one is aware of because Israel isn't mentioned.

You're using the corpses there to promote more corpses elsewhere and that's all there is to it.
You do not care about such massacres aside of the opportunity you find to go after Israelis.

Making cease fire with Hamas isn't pro-peace and being against it isn't pro-violence, just like being against ceasefire with the Nazis at the time isn't pro-violence and this should have been the position of the European forces and could prevent a lot of deaths. Your remarks are thus absurd. Hamas continued to murder and try to murder innocents after the last ceasefire just like after previous ones.

Make no mistake, I oppose you and this alone makes me anti-violence and anti-murder by nature, since your entire world view is based on pro-murder and pro-violence, specifically against innocents from a nation of less than 10 million people.

 

[Fledermaus]

Reasonable debate with people like you is a waste of time.The racism is palpable , tribalism is a human trait and is not just found in areas inhabited by Arabs. You out yourself with stunning regularity

There you go with the "racism" slur.

What "race" is Palestinian?