Boy Scouts file bankruptcy

[Mashmont]

A pedo's orientation is child, not male or female.

So why are the self-admitted gays at NAMBLA only interested in boys?

 

[ecofarm]

So why are the self-admitted gays at NAMBLA only interested in boys?

I don't know about Nambla and do not trust their information at all.

 

[COTO]

Lmao, reporting pedophile members and their assaults to the police would have been the only guideline they had. It's the same as would be for all law abiding citizens. They failed to even do that. Instead they covered up the cases, and made them go away through decades of bannings and dismissal of victim complaints. They became complicit in the assaults, and couldn't fight the lawsuits that came as a result.

Back to #102, point 2: you're judging past conduct by present-day knowledge of pedophilia. This includes knowledge of "what is assault?", "how likely are allegations to be true?", "how do we best respect the privacy of the plaintiff and the accused?", "what is 'too trivial an offense' to report?", "what do we do if we suspect the accuser is lying?", "is banning sufficient?".

Today, especially after the Catholic Church's many sins came to light, these questions and their answers started becoming more common knowledge. Regardless, people are going to make judgments as best they can on what needs to be reported and what doesn't, knowing that both inaction and false accusations (or weaponized accusations, or spurious accusations) can potentially destroy lives.

You're arguing on the premise that the BSA staff handling these 300 incidences didn't act in the way they felt would solve the problem and/or would result in the least harm to the plaintiff and the accused. You argue this from your high and lofty position of 20:20 hindsight in the year 2020, and (I'd bet dollars to dimes) never having personally been in a position where you had to deal with an accusation of sexual assault.

I say 'BS' to this. It's not a fair or reasonable standard. And it completely undermines the principle of "Fix the problem, not the blame." Again, I'm speaking to the fact that these lawsuits are destroying an organization by retroactively holding it to an unrealistic standard that--by the way--can't even be upheld by the public institutions where employees have clear, modern guidelines and additional training.

 

[BlueTex]

Because the statistic is "all forms of sexual harassment at junior high and high school" in an article called "Sexual violence in high school". It talks about how many students report the incidents to teachers, how many teachers report the incidents to higher authorities, how many students stay home from school as a result, how many students switch schools as a result, ...

You might want to try reading the article.

Where have you posted a link to the article?

 

[veritas1]

So you think pedophilia is a good thing? You don't think that iffenders should be held accountable?

Of course you don't

One can prosecute the offenders without destroying the organization. The left has sued the BSA repeatedly and it had NOTHING to do with pedophilia. They simply hate anything that is designed specifically for one sex. The very idea of different sexes and different needs and interests for each, is offensive to them. They are psychotic.

 

[veritas1]

So conservatives are okay with BSA having 'some' pedophiles supervise their kids? The BSA committed suicide when they didn't crush the events when they found out about them

The pedophile issue may have been badly handled but the BSA was under assault by the left for totally unrelated reasons. The pedophile thing was simply the last straw.

 

[rocket88]

One can prosecute the offenders without destroying the organization. The left has sued the BSA repeatedly and it had NOTHING to do with pedophilia. They simply hate anything that is designed specifically for one sex. The very idea of different sexes and different needs and interests for each, is offensive to them. They are psychotic.

That's complete BS and you know it. You blame the left when it rains.

 

[mrjurrs]

The pedophile issue may have been badly handled but the BSA was under assault by the left for totally unrelated reasons. The pedophile thing was simply the last straw.

Shouldn't it have been the first straw-instead of trying to keep gay leaders and scouts out?

 

[Hatuey]

Back to #102, point 2: you're judging past conduct by present-day knowledge of pedophilia.

I assure you that in 1975, pedophilia was illegal. It was illegal in the 1980s. It was illegal in the 1990s. It was illegal in the 00s. Reporting it in 1975 would have taken the same call to police officers as in 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s, and now 20s.

So no, nobody is judging the past through today's lenses because the laws in place made the same behavior illegal and punishable by law. They fell short of the minimum they could have done even in their time.

The rest of your post is nothing more than the same pedo-apologetics you've been engaging in since you decided you had a problem with what I said.

Are you ready to make an argument yet?



Я Баба Яга [emoji328]

 

[veritas1]

That's complete BS and you know it. You blame the left when it rains.

No, they sued the BSA for discrimination. I guess they failed to notice they were called the BOY Scouts because it was designed for BOYS.

 

[mrjurrs]

One can prosecute the offenders without destroying the organization. The left has sued the BSA repeatedly and it had NOTHING to do with pedophilia. They simply hate anything that is designed specifically for one sex. The very idea of different sexes and different needs and interests for each, is offensive to them. They are psychotic.

Sounds like someone has a little closet issue...

 

[mrjurrs]

No, they sued the BSA for discrimination. I guess they failed to notice they were called the BOY Scouts because it was designed for BOYS.

They sued to allow boys in, homosexual boys and scout leaders. What is wrong with that?

 

[mrjurrs]

NAMBLA disagrees with you. They should know.

Are you a member? How do you know they disagree with me?

 

[mrjurrs]

I have not been paying enough attention to know if the Boy Scouts were mismanaged, but I do know that in the end it was never going to matter. The Boy Scouts had to die, because they got in the way of teaching boys that males are second class citizens, and must always do what their betters, the females, tell them to do.

So long Boy Scouts!

You should replace the owl with a Dodo bird.

 

[COTO]

I assure you that in 1975, pedophilia was illegal. It was illegal in the 1980s. It was illegal in the 1990s. It was illegal in the 00s. Reporting it in 1975 would have taken the same call to police officers as in 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s, and now 20s.

So no, nobody is judging the past through today's lenses because the laws in place made the same behavior illegal and punishable by law. They fell short of the minimum they could have done even in their time.

1. You're completely ignoring my point that few people knew how to answer the litany of questions in #203 pp 1. You have to know what pedophilia is and isn't, you have to know that it's not uncommon, you have to know that it's serious, and you have to know that it tends to reoccur. If you're ignorant of any of these things, chances are you're not going to take the extraordinary step of involving police.

2. For a variety of reasons, many reports of sexual assaults by children aren't believed/believable.

3. According to literature on practices in California, reporting child abuse (including sexual abuse) is "not mandated by law", except in the case of "mandated reporters", which requires that such reporters "upon employment, to be provided with a statement, informing them that they are a mandated reporter and their obligations to report suspected cases of abuse and neglect pursuant to California Penal Code Section 11166.5.".

It goes on to say (ibid.): "Effective January 1, 2015, Assembly Bill 1432 (D-Gatto) requires all local educational agencies (LEAs) to train all employees each year on what they need to know in order to identify and report suspected cases of child abuse and neglect."

Hence, logically, we that see mandated reporting (what you pretentiously describe as "the minimum") is accompanied by legal statements informing employees of their legal obligation to report and explicit training to identify abuse--which was only put into place in California in 2015, incidentally.

I wonder why they would do this? Could it be because the world was/is blissfully unaware of how to deal with allegations of sexual assault unless properly instructed?

How much do you want to bet that in these 300 cases involving BSA employees, there wasn't a hint of "mandated reporter" status, legal statements, training, or regulations?

Hence once again, the conclusion: retroactively imposing today's standards on yesterday's employees is illogical and unfair. It certainly should not be the basis for a lawsuit.

You can quit with the one-liner ad homs at the end of every post. Any time. I get the joke.

 

[COTO]

Where have you posted a link to the article?

Post #136.

 

[Mashmont]

1. You're completely ignoring my point that few people knew how to answer the litany of questions in #203 pp 1. You have to know what pedophilia is and isn't, you have to know that it's not uncommon, you have to know that it's serious, and you have to know that it tends to reoccur. If you're ignorant of any of these things, chances are you're not going to take the extraordinary step of involving police.

2. For a variety of reasons, many reports of sexual assaults by children aren't believed/believable.

3. According to literature on practices in California, reporting child abuse (including sexual abuse) is "not mandated by law", except in the case of "mandated reporters", which requires that such reporters "upon employment, to be provided with a statement, informing them that they are a mandated reporter and their obligations to report suspected cases of abuse and neglect pursuant to California Penal Code Section 11166.5.".

It goes on to say (ibid.): "Effective January 1, 2015, Assembly Bill 1432 (D-Gatto) requires all local educational agencies (LEAs) to train all employees each year on what they need to know in order to identify and report suspected cases of child abuse and neglect."

Hence, logically, we that see mandated reporting (what you pretentiously describe as "the minimum") is accompanied by legal statements informing employees of their legal obligation to report and explicit training to identify abuse--which was only put into place in California in 2015, incidentally.

I wonder why they would do this? Could it be because the world was/is blissfully unaware of how to deal with allegations of sexual assault unless properly instructed?

How much do you want to bet that in these 300 cases involving BSA employees, there wasn't a hint of "mandated reporter" status, legal statements, training, or regulations?

Hence once again, the conclusion: retroactively imposing today's standards on yesterday's employees is illogical and unfair. It certainly should not be the basis for a lawsuit.

You can quit with the one-liner ad homs at the end of every post. Any time. I get the joke.

The damage done to victims was not well understood in 1975, nor was the recidivism rate.

When I was a teen in that era, we heard about this kid that was doing it with an old gay guy for money. We thought it was really disgusting and weird, but we didn't think about damage being done to the boy. I'm not sure we even saw the man as a criminal as much as just a weird old pervert. Back then, people thought these guys could be rehabilitated. Everyone thought it, including the public school system which moved teachers around.

 

[Logician Man]

The damage done to victims was not well understood in 1975, nor was the recidivism rate.

When I was a teen in that era, we heard about this kid that was doing it with an old gay guy for money. We thought it was really disgusting and weird, but we didn't think about damage being done to the boy. I'm not sure we even saw the man as a criminal as much as just a weird old pervert. Back then, people thought these guys could be rehabilitated. Everyone thought it, including the public school system which moved teachers around.

/// EVERYONE thought it /// <--- please prove this positive claim with verifiable, factual, credible links.

 

[Hatuey]

1. You're completely ignoring my point that few people knew how to answer the litany of questions in #203 pp 1..

Because it's gibberish. Everyone leading the BSA knew pedophilia was wrong in the 70s. And they've known since. They knew because they acted like one would expect from a person who does know, but doesn't want the police's attention.

Again, and since you're having so much trouble I will state it again: It becomes institutional when the leadership makes every effort to conceal it and make it go away.

That's it. There is no DoE cabal to keep pedophiles from facing the consequences of the law. The two cannot be compared because you will it.

That's nutty talk.



Я Баба Яга [emoji328]

 

[COTO]

Because it's gibberish. Everyone leading the BSA knew pedophilia was wrong in the 70s. And they've known since. They knew because they acted like one would expect from a person who does know, but doesn't want the police's attention.

Explain to us the key behaviours that surely distinguish a group of people who don't know the answers to the questions in #203 pp 1 from a group of people who do know the answers and simply want to hide the crimes from police.

It becomes institutional when the leadership makes every effort to conceal it and make it go away.

Again, please enlighten us as to the specific efforts "to conceal it and make it go away" the BSA engaged in that the NYC DoE has not also engaged in.

I admit: if the BSA repeatedly took extraordinary measures to conceal crimes (e.g. physically threatening victims, obstructing police investigations, destroying documents, etc.) such that it constitutes a clear pattern of behaviour, I'll have to concede the point that they knew what they were doing was not in the best interests of the public.

 

[ultmd]

My dad was a scoutmaster who had two Eagle Scout sons. I made it when I was 14, worked on camp staff for a couple of years, went to Philmont,

I commend your dad for his efforts and commitment. What about you? What have you done for Scouting since your teen years? In my troop, scouts EARN their eagle rank, and it shows in their life's behavior, afterward. As for me, two of my 4 eagle scout sons have done Philmont. I've taken 6 separate groups on treks through Philmont. I've taken groups to World Jamboree including the last 2 (i.e. Japan and West Va.). Unfortunately for his legacy, your dad failed, because it appears that he raised a "paper" eagle scout who never gave back to Scouting. Unfortunately, I've seen more than a few eagles like you, over the years(i.e. scouts who were pushed through the program) and thus never got much more from Scouting than a lifelong sense of entitlement.

and I can say there is no way in hell you were ever involved in the Boy Scouts.

:lamo
Your ignorant, pseudo-Christian opinions don't mean a thing. You'll find my name among the major donors (and board member) of BSA.

Nobody I have ever heard in scouts talks like you talk. Rightwing this and rightwing that

...says the paper eagle whose every post is filled with lies and complaints about "leftwing this and liberal that". Your hypocrisy cripples your arguments, mashmont. In reality Scouting is APOLITICAL.

I do believe you, though. I completely believe that, in your social circles, you hear plenty of "leftwing this and leftwing that", but barely a negative word about rigthtwingers like you. But the good news here is that your shallow personal experiences and exposures only reflect upon you, not Boy Scouts as a whole.

Such vitriolic hate for religion.

As an ACTUAL practicing Christian, I withhold my "vitriol" for pseudo-Christians who get my faith a bad image. Most of you pseudo-Christian types tend to be right wingers. And you are deserving of vitriol, just as you were when Jesus overturned the tables of the peddlers and profiteers in the Temple. You and your ilk...are them.

As you say, the Boy Scouts is made up of churchgoing conservatives

Nonsense. Clearly, YOUR boys scout experience was limited to "conservatives", but (again) that's just further reflection of your limited social/cultural experience. Most Boy Scout troops the US are church-based, but not necessarily "conservative". Most Christians are NOT conservatives. You'd understand that if you weren't so sheltered.

just the OPPOSITE of the gays who molest boys.

This is pure ignorance. In FACT, "conservative churchgoers" are the stereotype for sexually repressed child molesters.

I am offended at your repulsive comment

Get over it. I'm offended by "Christianists" like you who profess faith, but conduct themselves like idolaters, and who can't even quote their own Bibles.

The BSA is a great organization which the leftwingers despise because it teaches boys how to be men.

As I stated early in this thread, BSA truly is a great program. It's also an institution that has, for decades, allowed isolated incidents of child abuse to be swept under the rug...and has proactively protected many of the adults who have abused children. That's not a partisan issue...unless one considers that almost ALL of the documented and suspected child molesters in BSA over the decades just HAPPEN to have been conservative, middle aged white men. Other than that, partisanship has NOTHING to do with what is happening to BSA today. Ignorant, pseudo-Christian rightwingers have so much hatred for "the left" that they defend child molestation rather than seek to hold the responsible people and the institutions accountable.

It seems that you are the primary example of that type of "Christian", in this thread. A "Christianist" masquerading as a Christian.

Like with the Catholic Church, the Marxist media amplifies the offenses, and is trying to destroy the BSA, while saying absolutely nothing about rampant abuse in the godless public schools. I will not sit still while you join in the chorus to try to close down this great organization because of the actions of a few.

Setting aside your latest ignorant attempt to use a term like "marxist" (or "socialist", or "communist", etc.)....this is just a really STUPID comment. Pull your head out of your butt. The media isn't "amplifying the offenses". The MASSIVE numbers of allegations and lawsuits being filed are real. And again, the culprits are almost ALL turning out to be so-called "Churchgoing conservative" white men, just like the kind of people who comprise your personal social circles, I'm sure. Not "liberals", not "gays", not "leftwingers". Nope. Facts are stubborn things, aren't they?

 

[Mashmont]

I commend your dad for his efforts and commitment. What about you? What have you done for Scouting since your teen years? In my troop, scouts EARN their eagle rank, and it shows in their life's behavior, afterward. As for me, two of my 4 eagle scout sons have done Philmont. I've taken 6 separate groups on treks through Philmont. I've taken groups to World Jamboree including the last 2 (i.e. Japan and West Va.). Unfortunately for his legacy, your dad failed, because it appears that he raised a "paper" eagle scout who never gave back to Scouting. Unfortunately, I've seen more than a few eagles like you, over the years(i.e. scouts who were pushed through the program) and thus never got much more from Scouting than a lifelong sense of entitlement.


:lamo
Your ignorant, pseudo-Christian opinions don't mean a thing. You'll find my name among the major donors (and board member) of BSA.


...says the paper eagle whose every post is filled with lies and complaints about "leftwing this and liberal that". Your hypocrisy cripples your arguments, mashmont. In reality Scouting is APOLITICAL.

I do believe you, though. I completely believe that, in your social circles, you hear plenty of "leftwing this and leftwing that", but barely a negative word about rigthtwingers like you. But the good news here is that your shallow personal experiences and exposures only reflect upon you, not Boy Scouts as a whole.


As an ACTUAL practicing Christian, I withhold my "vitriol" for pseudo-Christians who get my faith a bad image. Most of you pseudo-Christian types tend to be right wingers. And you are deserving of vitriol, just as you were when Jesus overturned the tables of the peddlers and profiteers in the Temple. You and your ilk...are them.


Nonsense. Clearly, YOUR boys scout experience was limited to "conservatives", but (again) that's just further reflection of your limited social/cultural experience. Most Boy Scout troops the US are church-based, but not necessarily "conservative". Most Christians are NOT conservatives. You'd understand that if you weren't so sheltered.


This is pure ignorance. In FACT, "conservative churchgoers" are the stereotype for sexually repressed child molesters.


Get over it. I'm offended by "Christianists" like you who profess faith, but conduct themselves like idolaters, and who can't even quote their own Bibles.



As I stated early in this thread, BSA truly is a great program. It's also an institution that has, for decades, allowed isolated incidents of child abuse to be swept under the rug...and has proactively protected many of the adults who have abused children. That's not a partisan issue...unless one considers that almost ALL of the documented and suspected child molesters in BSA over the decades just HAPPEN to have been conservative, middle aged white men. Other than that, partisanship has NOTHING to do with what is happening to BSA today. Ignorant, pseudo-Christian rightwingers have so much hatred for "the left" that they defend child molestation rather than seek to hold the responsible people and the institutions accountable.

It seems that you are the primary example of that type of "Christian", in this thread. A "Christianist" masquerading as a Christian.



Setting aside your latest ignorant attempt to use a term like "marxist" (or "socialist", or "communist", etc.)....this is just a really STUPID comment. Pull your head out of your butt. The media isn't "amplifying the offenses". The MASSIVE numbers of allegations and lawsuits being filed are real. And again, the culprits are almost ALL turning out to be so-called "Churchgoing conservative" white men, just like the kind of people who comprise your personal social circles, I'm sure. Not "liberals", not "gays", not "leftwingers". Nope. Facts are stubborn things, aren't they?

There's nothing you're going to tell me about 'earning' Eagle, friend. My dad was doubly hard on his own kids. Every requirement was filled to the letter and beyond. And nobody pushed me through. I wanted Eagle on my own since the time before I was in scouting. But since you made up your tale about being a scoutmaster just for this thread, you wouldn't understand. It just really offends me you would make up something like that just to take a pot shot at scouting and the conservative Christians in it.

 

[calamity]

There's nothing you're going to tell me about 'earning' Eagle, friend. My dad was doubly hard on his own kids. Every requirement was filled to the letter and beyond. And nobody pushed me through. I wanted Eagle on my own since the time before I was in scouting. But since you made up your tale about being a scoutmaster just for this thread, you wouldn't understand. It just really offends me you would make up something like that just to take a pot shot at scouting and the conservative Christians in it.

I tried the cub scouts for about six months. But, I found the effort of chasing after merit badges to be silly. So, I joined little league instead.

 

[3leftsdoo]

The Liberals accomplished their mission.

Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of Sex-Abuse Claims : NPR

I think the Mormon exodus was the nail in the BSA coffin.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Your support of the destruction of the BSA is most pathetic.

Your apparent support for allowing pedophiles/rapists and those who cover up for them to go without consequences is much worse than just pathetic.