Boy Scouts file bankruptcy

[apdst]

The cost of hiding pedophiles for decades is high. They had 2000 claims by 1994. They had seen a problem in the 80s and instituted a number of measures.

The attempt to make this go away was institutional. If they can't pay their lights, that's on them. I'm sure the freemarket will replace them with something less pedophilic.



Я Баба Яга [emoji328]

Do you have evidence of "hiding pedophiles"?

 

[COTO]

Did the NYC school system cover up the abuse? There is potential for child abuse in all institutions involving children. The issue is how that abuse is handled. As usual, it's not the crime. It's the cover-up.

You're talking about 300 cases in 110 million boys who've participated in BSA programs. Yes, I realize the actual number of abuses is going to be higher than the number of reported abuses, so let's go wild and assume that for every reported abuse there are 367 unreported abuses. This would mean that for every thousand boys who participated in BSA, one experienced some form of abuse.

First, you'll note that a 1-in-1,000 abuse rate is infinitesimal compared to the rate of abuse boys experience in public schools, in their own homes, and almost certainly anywhere else children are placed under the supervision and care of adults.

Second, you'll note that these 1-in-1,000 cases are going to be handled by thousands of different BSA employees and volunteers who don't understand pedophilia, have no training in dealing with it, and undoubtedly tried to make the best decisions they could with the knowledge they had at the time. You forget that it's only in recent years that pedophilia has exploded into the limelight, registering on the layperson's radar as something that can potentially happen in schools, churches, camps, and other "safe" spaces. It's patently unreasonable to judge a response 10, 20, 30+ years ago by what has only become common knowledge today.

Thirdly, and most importantly: even with our absurd multiple of 367 getting us to 1-in-1,000 abuses, I posit that dealing with 1-in-1,000 abuses as they come, not considering it to be an unusual systemic problem, can not by any stretch of the imagination be called a "cover up". If privately dealing with 1-in-1,000 abuse cases is a cover up, there isn't an organization on Earth--public or private--not engaged in multiple "cover-ups". It's an absurd standard.

Every year the NYC DoE gets sued for one of its teachers sexually assaulting people or a hundred other reasons. Decades ago, teachers operated kind of like clergy. Everyone just sort of overlooked a lot of pedophile teachers. In this millenium, people do sue the education department.

It's a good thing that the NYC DoE has an unlimited supply of your tax dollars to fend off the lawsuits.

Again, I'm not trying to pick on any one institution like the NYC DoE. We live in a world with literally millions of sexual predators and no good way to handle them. Any time children are placed in the custody of adults, it's a statistical inevitability that some are going to be abused. Quite a few, if the statistics I cited earlier are anything to go by.

These flying lawsuits are fixing nothing, likely making the problem worse, and now are being weaponized to tear down any institution that dares provoke the ire of the political left.

While I'm not aware of any prominent cases yet, you can bet your right arm that activists on the right are going to start using the same assassination-by-process to tear down perfectly benign institutions on the left. Your universities, your left-wing think tanks, your environmentalist societies... all torn down without any hope of recourse. A whole society being systematically torn down by activists and a weaponized legal system. An anarchist's dream.

 

[COTO]

I'm sure the freemarket will replace them with something less pedophilic.

You dream.

The free market will replace them with a million more kids sitting at home on their arses shooting up virtual Arabs and getting curious what all this "child pornography" is about.

The pedophiles, meanwhile, will do what they do somewhere else. (Yeah. They're all still there.)

 

[BlueTex]

By contrast, 6.5% of NYC high school students report having been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they didn't want to. This is approximately 24,000 times the rate of sexual abuse the Boy Scouts are currently being flushed out of existence for.

Did this non consensual intercourse happen in the schools? If so, I am all for holding NYC schools responsible... If it didn't, how is this statistic relevant?

 

[bluesmoke]

BSA should have followed the Catholic model........:mrgreen:

The part they didn't follow was collecting pennies from the poor to pay-off the victims and afford surviving the cost of the lawsuits. They didn't build enough bank. Now the question is if the Protestant Church and schools have enough money to survive the fact of their sexual abuse and coverup that has been becoming more known over the last yr or so.

 

[cabse5]

Out of the ashes of the BSA will rise another boy scouting organization full of checks and balances to prevent abuse.

 

[bearpoker]

You're talking about 300 cases in 110 million boys who've participated in BSA programs. Yes, I realize the actual number of abuses is going to be higher than the number of reported abuses, so let's go wild and assume that for every reported abuse there are 367 unreported abuses. This would mean that for every thousand boys who participated in BSA, one experienced some form of abuse.

First, you'll note that a 1-in-1,000 abuse rate is infinitesimal compared to the rate of abuse boys experience in public schools, in their own homes, and almost certainly anywhere else children are placed under the supervision and care of adults.

Second, you'll note that these 1-in-1,000 cases are going to be handled by thousands of different BSA employees and volunteers who don't understand pedophilia, have no training in dealing with it, and undoubtedly tried to make the best decisions they could with the knowledge they had at the time. You forget that it's only in recent years that pedophilia has exploded into the limelight, registering on the layperson's radar as something that can potentially happen in schools, churches, camps, and other "safe" spaces. It's patently unreasonable to judge a response 10, 20, 30+ years ago by what has only become common knowledge today.

Thirdly, and most importantly: even with our absurd multiple of 367 getting us to 1-in-1,000 abuses, I posit that dealing with 1-in-1,000 abuses as they come, not considering it to be an unusual systemic problem, can not by any stretch of the imagination be called a "cover up". If privately dealing with 1-in-1,000 abuse cases is a cover up, there isn't an organization on Earth--public or private--not engaged in multiple "cover-ups". It's an absurd standard.


It's a good thing that the NYC DoE has an unlimited supply of your tax dollars to fend off the lawsuits.

Again, I'm not trying to pick on any one institution like the NYC DoE. We live in a world with literally millions of sexual predators and no good way to handle them. Any time children are placed in the custody of adults, it's a statistical inevitability that some are going to be abused. Quite a few, if the statistics I cited earlier are anything to go by.

These flying lawsuits are fixing nothing, likely making the problem worse, and now are being weaponized to tear down any institution that dares provoke the ire of the political left.

While I'm not aware of any prominent cases yet, you can bet your right arm that activists on the right are going to start using the same assassination-by-process to tear down perfectly benign institutions on the left. Your universities, your left-wing think tanks, your environmentalist societies... all torn down without any hope of recourse. A whole society being systematically torn down by activists and a weaponized legal system. An anarchist's dream.

You didn't address my point. Did the NYC school system ignore and/or cover up the incidents, or did they investigate them and discipline the offenders?

 

[bearpoker]

You dream.

The free market will replace them with a million more kids sitting at home on their arses shooting up virtual Arabs and getting curious what all this "child pornography" is about.

The pedophiles, meanwhile, will do what they do somewhere else. (Yeah. They're all still there.)

You quoted a post I didn't make. I had thought better of you than that.

 

[Hatuey]

it's a good thing that the NYC DoE has an unlimited supply of your tax dollars to fend off the lawsuits.
....

Again, I'm not trying to pick on any one institution like the NYC DoE.

Except you are. Why don't anyone go after NYC?!?! Well, they do when people screw up. The DoE doesn't get to hide people away in small towns and pretend nothing ever happened.

What's your next goal post?

Я Баба Яга [emoji328]

 

[Hatuey]

Do you have evidence of "hiding pedophiles"?

Ignorance is no excuse for peddling your lies, apdst. 1991 and reported on by the very right wing Washington Times:

Boy Scouts of America sex abuse cases - Wikipedia

The series drew on three sources:

Historical "confidential files" (formerly known as the "Ineligible Volunteer Files") within Scout records, with details on 231 Scout leaders banned from Scouting for sexual misconduct from 1975 through 1984.

50 lawsuits against the Scouts by families of molested boys from around the US.

A list from the BSA of more than 350 men banned for sexual misconduct from 1971 to 1986.

The BSA had hundreds of complaints dating back to the 70s and 80s. The effort to make them go away through bans, and Scout leader replacements is what did them in.

Lol, how long did you think you could blame their downfall on being banned for discrimating on the gays?

Я Баба Яга [emoji328]

 

[Jredbaron96]

Do you have evidence of "hiding pedophiles"?

lol page 1 of google

Boy Scouts of America Are Covering up a 'Pedophilia Epidemic,' 350 Alleged Abusers Have Been Named In Lawsuit

 

[mrjurrs]

I somehow doubt the number of total cases is anywhere near 24,000 times as great as the number of reported cases, meaning the BSA is still a good deal less culpable than NYC. (You'll note that the 6.5% is also a reported figure, BTW.)

And I don't mean to pick on New York. I just happened to find their stats first. Pick any major American city and you'd find comparable numbers.

The only reason this is happening now--as others have pointed out--is that the BSA took a moral stance some years ago that marked them for legal assassination. If it was truly about preventing sexual assault, BSA wouldn't be on the top 10,000 list of organizations facing this kind of onslaught.

So, you're okay with only a small percentage of Boy Scouts being abused?

 

[trouble13]

If the BSA were clever they would declare bankruptcy, disolve the organazation, and then create a new organazation that is free from all those liabilities. Let the the left attack an organazation that no longer exists.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[d0gbreath]

The grievance is that some 300 claims of abuse comprise less than 0.0003% of the 110 million Americans who've participated in Boy Scouts programs since its founding.

By contrast, 6.5% of NYC high school students report having been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they didn't want to. This is approximately 24,000 times the rate of sexual abuse the Boy Scouts are currently being flushed out of existence for.

Should we also flush NYC high schools out of existence?

Or instead maybe develop some perspective?

The Boy Scouts are having to pay lawyers for those 300 abuse claims. Hence, the bankruptcy. They are flushing themselves out of existence.

 

[COTO]

You didn't address my point. Did the NYC school system ignore and/or cover up the incidents, or did they investigate them and discipline the offenders?

They ignored and covered up the ones we're not aware of, and investigated and disciplined (whatever that means) the offenders in the ones we are aware of.

Same as every other institution on Earth.

You quoted a post I didn't make. I had thought better of you than that.

The quote is from post #91 by @Hatuey. I must have damaged the UBBC markup somehow. My apologies.

Except you are. Why don't anyone go after NYC?!?! Well, they do when people screw up. The DoE doesn't get to hide people away in small towns and pretend nothing ever happened.

Why do they get to survive? Why not tear down the institution? Why should taxpayer dollars fund litigation to defend a system where abuse is so rampant?

In other words, why doesn't your "people more concerned about preserving institutions than the people forever damaged by them" argument apply to the NYC DoE? Tear it down. Let the "freemarket" (sic) take care of it.

So, you're okay with only a small percentage of Boy Scouts being abused?

Define 'okay'.

Do I believe an institution whose demonstrable rate of abuse is a tiny fraction of the baseline rate should be sued out of existence for private handling of abuse claims? No.

The Boy Scouts are having to pay lawyers for those 300 abuse claims. Hence, the bankruptcy. They are flushing themselves out of existence.

This is like saying that a drug company that makes vaccines should be sued out of existence because 300 of the 110 million people vaccinated developed severe complications.

But that isn't too far from the truth, is it? Just like Purdue Pharma, BSA is filing Chapter 11. Nobody gets anything.

You sue-happy Americans are something else. I sometimes wish I didn't give a damn that you're tearing down your own society brick by brick.

 

[DamnYankee]

it has nothing to do with the left. if the boy scout leadership knew that this was going on and did nothing then they are liable for the damages.

they made their own mess now they have to clean it up. where were the other parents when this was going on is my question.

they should have reported and had these leaders arrested. it would have added to their credibility.

Leftists screw up everything they touch. You know it, and I know it.

 

[Hatuey]

Why do they get to survive? Why not tear down the institution? Why should taxpayer dollars fund litigation to defend a system where abuse is so rampant?

Just questions, no regard for the insanely dishonest statements you've made about nobody suing the DoE in NYC. The BSA didn't survive because knots, membership fees and fire prevention methods aren't enough to pay for institutional pedophilia cases.

The DoE survives because everyone understands pedophilia is not being institutionally protected to keep kids attending school.

Anymore questions or are you going to make an argument soon?







Я Баба Яга [emoji328]

 

[bearpoker]

They ignored and covered up the ones we're not aware of, and investigated and disciplined (whatever that means) the offenders in the ones we are aware of.

I'm glad you agree that the NYC school system didn't engage in cover-up as far as we know. We also know that the BSA did engage in cover-up or simply ignored abuse. That's why they're getting sued.

 

[mrjurrs]

Leftists screw up everything they touch. You know it, and I know it.

You're gonna need a source for that claim.

 

[BlueTex]

I somehow doubt the number of total cases is anywhere near 24,000 times as great as the number of reported cases, meaning the BSA is still a good deal less culpable than NYC. (You'll note that the 6.5% is also a reported figure, BTW.)

And I don't mean to pick on New York. I just happened to find their stats first. Pick any major American city and you'd find comparable numbers.

The only reason this is happening now--as others have pointed out--is that the BSA took a moral stance some years ago that marked them for legal assassination. If it was truly about preventing sexual assault, BSA wouldn't be on the top 10,000 list of organizations facing this kind of onslaught.

What evidence do you have that the 6.5% of cases of sexual assault happened in NYC schools? Heck, 4% of those cases could have been BSA members in NYC. Let's see the evidence that these cases occurred during school.

 

[BlueTex]

So go after New York high schools. They're 24,000 times as bad. Literally 24,000 times. Statistics do not lie.

Where's your moral outrage there?

Surely you support tearing them down too, saving all those people.

Statistics don't lie but liars often use statistics... When/where did those 24,000 cases occur? At school while the children were under the supervision of the schools?

 

[ultmd]

Long-time Scout Master, here. Father of 4 eagle scouts.

Personally, I've never seen, nor heard about, any inappropriate behavior in my entire tenure. Scouting is a tremendous program.

But what has happened, and what has been tolerated and protected by BSA for decades now....was/is an absolute abomination. If there is anything on this earth that qualifies as more reprehensible than abusing a child, I can't even imagine what that might be. So, I have ZERO sympathy for BSA regarding this scandal, or the bankruptcy is being filed. I say "get 'em" to anyone who has been abused by a trusted adult while in the program. And, in addition to any/all living adults accused of abuse, I also hope that the courts focus their ire on any/all past or present BSA district/council/regional administrators who (over the decades) have CHOSEN to conceal, ignore, tolerate or condone allegations and/or reports of abuse about adult leaders in troops around the country.

That decision to file for bankruptcy protection, btw, was made in order to protect the physical assets of the organization (i.e. camp properties, council offices, etc.). It's a pretty craven move that shows (once again) that BSA is first and foremost intent upon protecting itself, rather than making things right (or, at least, as "right" as possible).

Now, that said...ANYONE who believes BSA's current situation has ANYTHING to do with "liberals", "liberalism", the "liberal mission" or any court decisions about gays in scouting, etc....is just a moron, I think. Of course, this is a problem that dates back DECADES and has (if anything) drastically DECREASED since BSA lifted restrictions on gay people being involved in Scouting. Homosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia. Study after study has proven, over and over, that there is no link between homosexuality and child molestation or pedophilia.

As a matter of fact, studies show that pedophilia and child molestation correlates directly with feelings of sexual repression and other abnormally repressed emotions, most of which correlate closely with strong conservative social and religious views. BSA is, and always has been, an overwhelmingly conservative and Christian social environment. So it's no surprise that most of the men who have been accused and convicted of indecent behavior in Scouting, have been conservative.

Leftists screw up everything they touch. You know it, and I know it.

Righties lie about everything. You know it, and I know i

 

[mrjurrs]

Liberals are never so happy as when they've managed to destroy something they've hated all along. No doubt there were some pedophiles in the BSA but that could have been handled. It is the avalanche of harassment suits brought by the left which has killed the BSA. Now, they'll no doubt be off to their next target. I'm sure anything with "boy" or "girl" in the name will be ripe for attack. The left likes nothing so much has obliterating any distinction between the sexes.

So conservatives are okay with BSA having 'some' pedophiles supervise their kids? The BSA committed suicide when they didn't crush the events when they found out about them

 

[PTF]

The Liberals accomplished their mission.

Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of Sex-Abuse Claims : NPR

Good post in exposing the lowly liberal/Demos and their usual antics. The frivolous attack on our President which as a result in his acquittal, has sent the liberal/Demo into a mental breakdown and disarray. The liberal/Demo,lowly as they are,launches a campaign in destroying anything that's stand for America. So what do they do ?
Bankrupt the BSA and more American establishments are on the way of being forced into bankruptcy.
Good post !!

 

[Mashmont]

So conservatives favor child sexual abuse by their leaders and chaperones?

Let’s review. Boy Scouts had a molestation problem. Boy Scouts vote to ban gay leaders. Leftwingers threw a fit and demanded Boy Scouts loft ban on ga leaders. Boy Scouts kowtow to the left. Kids start getting molested again. Boy Scouts sued again, files bankruptcy. Lesson: You NEVER kowtow to the left.