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Black Woman Dragged, Exposed And Arrested In Waffle House Over Plastic Utensils

ajn678 said:
I mean you’re entirely wrong, you don’t have a right to be there. If that happened, which it didn’t, you still couldn’t just sit inside the building forever.
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I never said it was the case here.

So you're suggesting I could walk into my local diner, place an order, pay for the order and the diner could demand I leave without my food or my money? I really don't think so. Until the food arrives or my money is returned I'm transacting business and have every right to be there. Realistically I obviously can't stay there forever and would at some point either leave or call the police but the implication of your position - that I'm trespassing - is clearly wrong.
 
Elvira said:
You are living in a fantasy world if you believe that...I take it you've never watched LivePD...you really should so you can see what PO's come upon every day of their working lives...
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I am a retired journalist who has seen more than a few dozen of these things, also spent a lot of time in court and today am a volunteer for the Vancouver Police department.

I do not live in a fantasy world, I know what happens on the street as I do a ride-along about once a month.

I have also been a "training assistant", for the British Columbia Justice Institute where they use you as a suspect, usually pretending to resist arrest. I have been "taken down" a few dozen times often by people much smaller than I, so I kind of have a feel for the situation.

For all of the time I've lived here the VPD has had an unofficial motto - "if you have to use violence you probably screwed up" learn from it.

As to the video, please offer me an explanation of why the officer is pulling at her clothing? He is not trying to get cuffs on her, not trying to get her to stang, but is simply groping at her dress.

In closing, in my country you are innocent until proven guilty and cops who forget that aren't cops anymore. Throughout this thread the right has consistently gone against the dictates of the constitution and, as usual don't care a wit.

The United States is a police state and Americans like it
 
Superfly said:
Do you not understand the basic concept of the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Go read up on Title II.

The woman had the cops called on her the moment she walked in the door.
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Why do you insist on posting lies?
 
Fearandloathing said:
I am a retired journalist who has seen more than a few dozen of these things, also spent a lot of time in court and today am a volunteer for the Vancouver Police department.

I do not live in a fantasy world, I know what happens on the street as I do a ride-along about once a month.

I have also been a "training assistant", for the British Columbia Justice Institute where they use you as a suspect, usually pretending to resist arrest. I have been "taken down" a few dozen times often by people much smaller than I, so I kind of have a feel for the situation.

For all of the time I've lived here the VPD has had an unofficial motto - "if you have to use violence you probably screwed up" learn from it.

As to the video, please offer me an explanation of why the officer is pulling at her clothing? He is not trying to get cuffs on her, not trying to get her to stang, but is simply groping at her dress.

In closing, in my country you are innocent until proven guilty and cops who forget that aren't cops anymore. Throughout this thread the right has consistently gone against the dictates of the constitution and, as usual don't care a wit.

The United States is a police state and Americans like it
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Yep; we all would like to know what happened between seeing her sitting and then laying on the floor. Obviously, the other female neglected to record that part.

As to handcuffs, yes, I saw one of the videos that shows her being "escorted" out with handcuffs on. Which means the police tried their darndest to get those things on her.

What you see as groping on her dress, I see as trying to get that flimsy bit of a dress back over certain parts of exposed skin.
 
Superfly said:
Thanks for the link. I watched it until I got to Mims, and I watched his statement earlier.

I'm still not seeing anything that would justify her being hauled out in cuffs. She came in, she sat down and then was asked to leave.

If what happened was that big of a deal, why not more witnesses? There were several in there who could have corroborated the WH employees, yet they didn't.

Either way, I'm about tired of going back and forth on this, as I see things differently than some of y'all do, and that's OK, too.

Thanks for the pleasant debate. :peace
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Confronted with evidence that goes against what they have been saying for 20+ pages. Instead of admitting that they jumped to conclusions she just leaves. Pathetic debate style.
 
ajn678 said:
Confronted with evidence that goes against what they have been saying for 20+ pages. Instead of admitting that they jumped to conclusions she just leaves. Pathetic debate style.
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Aw, shucks. You're breaking my heart. :lol:

You should take a page or 20 from Howard's debating style. He has remained pretty decent throughout the entire thread, despite the fact that he and I disagree on almost everything except his awesome choice of avatar.

You, though? Not so much. :lol:
 
Superfly said:
Aw, shucks. You're breaking my heart. :lol:

You should take a page or 20 from Howard's debating style. He has remained pretty decent throughout the entire thread, despite the fact that he and I disagree on almost everything except his awesome choice of avatar.

You, though? Not so much. :lol:
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I'm sure I will lose sleep from someone that decides to make things up and run away when confronted with the facts thinks of me.
 
ajn678 said:
I'm sure I will lose sleep from someone that decides to make things up and run away when confronted with the facts thinks of me.
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If that's how you see that this went down, then good on ya'.

As I said before, I'm finished here. I can only say the same thing over and over and over, and then I get tired of it. It doesn't mean I am running away when facts are presented to me. Quite the contrary. However, I see things differently than you or many others in this thread. Does not make me wrong. Does not make you wrong. It makes us disagree, which is the purpose of this forum. Otherwise, it would be a giant echo chamber, and that wouldn't be any fun for anybody.

So again - finished here. Not debating this any further, but my refusal to debate any further does not imply that I am "running away," as you put it. Just tired of beating the same dead horse, over and over.
 
Superfly said:
If that's how you see that this went down, then good on ya'.

As I said before, I'm finished here. I can only say the same thing over and over and over, and then I get tired of it. It doesn't mean I am running away when facts are presented to me. Quite the contrary. However, I see things differently than you or many others in this thread. Does not make me wrong. Does not make you wrong. It makes us disagree, which is the purpose of this forum. Otherwise, it would be a giant echo chamber, and that wouldn't be any fun for anybody.

So again - finished here. Not debating this any further, but my refusal to debate any further does not imply that I am "running away," as you put it. Just tired of beating the same dead horse, over and over.
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Okay, fine. You are wrong though. Whether you say you are done or not. You are entirely 100% wrong. Have a nice day.
 
ajn678 said:
Can't believe how many idiots are donating to them. Probably fed the same bull**** narrative that some in this thread seem to still have despite facts.
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There's a sucker born every day, I hear.

I'd be willing to bet that amount climbs to 25K in the next few days.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Compare this crap with the police professionalism displayed in Toronto yesterday.
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What I saw in Toronto impressed me greatly. That officer had the ability to deescalate the situation without shooting a man who just slaughtered 10 people. Perhaps he could have talked the black woman into cooperating -- perhaps not.

Either way, what the black woman did was wrong.
 
VanceMack said:
Sure. But do you honestly believe the police had ANY business engaging in this instance?

Be honest.
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The business owner or manager has the right to refuse service to anyone they view to be hostile and antagonistic. They have the right to be safe within their establishment and have any threatening person immediately removed from their property. By continuing to refuse the reasonable request to vacate property that does not belong to you, you are committing the crime of trespassing - an "arrest-able offense" in any jurisdiction.
 
SoulFire77 said:
The business owner or manager has the right to refuse service to anyone they view to be hostile and antagonistic. They have the right to be safe within their establishment and have any threatening person immediately removed from their property. By continuing to refuse the reasonable request to vacate property that does not belong to you, you are committing the crime of trespassing - an "arrest-able offense" in any jurisdiction.
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Sure thing maam. Heres the regional managers number. Thanks for being such a great customer!
 
VanceMack said:
Sure thing maam. Heres the regional managers number. Thanks for being such a great customer!
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Behaving in a civilized manner works a majority of the time. I have had many complaints to many companies over the years. Rarely has a corporation failed to take action on a complaint - especially the more serious ones. There is a "right" way to do things... and then there are those things which garner lots of attention on social media.
 
If Starbucks can set some time aside to retrain their employees why can’t police?

Police officers are government employees. They should be public servants. They should be peacekeepers not troublemakers.

This is exactly what Kaepernick has been protesting about. Police in this country act more like some kind of authoritarian state police than public servants. If you want to make a situation worse just call the police.

I’m not anti-police. My best friend is a cop. But most of these guys need some serious training in deescalation.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I don't know but if it was for a reason the waitress who called them concocted, that doesn't matter -- you STILL don't resist arrest and expect things will turn out hunky dory. You obey the officer, you be gracious and most likely you won't even be arrested, probably just escorted from the building. Only a true idiot argues with and resists arrest. A smart person listens to the officers and then files a complaint or a claim against the company.

But, what she did -- I have no sympathy for that kind of idiocy.
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Agree with this, as it appears she was trash talking the staff from the police statement even to the point of speaking about "what if I had a gun."

Strange thing though - on the two black guys in Starbucks Philadelphia thread, there's a whole bunch of lying going down against the two black men who were polite, complied with the arresting officers and merely asked why they were being arrested.

Seems that to some posters, there's a moronic approach where black simply equals guilty and nothing they can do is right in the face of the law.

Back to this case though, de-escalation seems not to be a word in the US police training manual.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Agree with this, as it appears she was trash talking the staff from the police statement even to the point of speaking about "what if I had a gun."

Strange thing though - on the two black guys in Starbucks Philadelphia thread, there's a whole bunch of lying going down against the two black men who were polite, complied with the arresting officers and merely asked why they were being arrested.

Seems that to some posters, there's a moronic approach where black simply equals guilty and nothing they can do is right in the face of the law.

Back to this case though, de-escalation seems not to be a word in the US police training manual.
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Agree that there is a notable difference between the two black men who were arrested at Starbucks and the black woman arrested from the Waffle House.

I also agree that our police officers could use more "deescalation" training. But, we really need to get the point across to citizens that resisting arrest will create a situation that ends up favorably to them.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Agree with this, as it appears she was trash talking the staff from the police statement even to the point of speaking about "what if I had a gun."

Strange thing though - on the two black guys in Starbucks Philadelphia thread, there's a whole bunch of lying going down against the two black men who were polite, complied with the arresting officers and merely asked why they were being arrested.

Seems that to some posters, there's a moronic approach where black simply equals guilty and nothing they can do is right in the face of the law.

Back to this case though, de-escalation seems not to be a word in the US police training manual.
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I blame the 80's and 90's cops TV show. BAD BOYS BAD BOYS.. WHUTCHA GONNA DO?!?!? *proceeds to manhandle miscreants in a show that was predominantly filmed in black ghettos*

2 steps removed from "WOOOOOO LETS ROUND UM UP BOYS!!!"
 
HowardBThiname said:
Agree that there is a notable difference between the two black men who were arrested at Starbucks and the black woman arrested from the Waffle House.

I also agree that our police officers could use more "deescalation" training. But, we really need to get the point across to citizens that resisting arrest will create a situation that ends up favorably to them.
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I think you mean "But, we really need to get the point across to citizens that resisting arrest will NOT create a situation that ends up favorably to them.?"

However, civil disobedience should not become something that wholesale, becomes an excuse for a beating by the police. Note that I'm not arguing this Waffle House case is like a civil disobedience case where a protester can argue and not engage with police trying to move them on from a protest site.
 
I haven't seen any conversation surrounding this waffle house incident:

AL woman says she wasn't served at Waffle House due to race - FOX Carolina 21

Besides it appears there is a black man in there the only way this woman's explanation makes sense, is if the worker's had a crystal ball and knew what race the next person to arrive would be, so they could ensure they locked the doors prior to her opening it.

The worker has said they were short staffed and locked the doors so they could catch up.
 
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