Biden maintains lead over 2020 contenders as Warren passes Sanders: poll

[TurtleDude]

I'm shocked that you wouldn't mind if Warren becomes the veep of Biden. She is far from being a libertarian such as yourself. How do you reconcile this politically?

I would not mind if Biden gets the Dem's nomination, but a progressive like Warren on the ticket nips my backing of Biden as the Dem. candidate right in the bud. My early endorsement of Biden doesn't mean I will support him, btw. It means of all the candidates, he makes more sense than the entire lot of them.

Biden is intellectually vacant. He can fool many who are low information voters, because he has spent so much time in politics and he can parrot the political talk of his intellectually stronger colleagues. But deep down, he's a third rate brain. Warren's a bit smarter, but even more dishonest than Biden. Plus her main drive is having and she sees government as a weapon to be used against those who don't agree with her.

 

[American]

Biden is intellectually vacant. He can fool many who are low information voters, because he has spent so much time in politics and he can parrot the political talk of his intellectually stronger colleagues. But deep down, he's a third rate brain. Warren's a bit smarter, but even more dishonest than Biden. Plus her main drive is having and she sees government as a weapon to be used against those who don't agree with her.

She's a horrible speaker.

 

[TurtleDude]

She's a horrible speaker.

tough using smoke signals for a teleprompter?

 

[American]

tough using smoke signals for a teleprompter?

She blows the smoke out her ass.

 

[Surrealistik]

I like her policies very much, but I just had no confidence she would prevail in the body politic. She seemed to falter during large uncontrolled Q & A sessions in uncontrolled hostile environments, as was seen in her press gaggles just after her genetic's test. Some of those were pretty cringe-worth. In addition, her public personal charisma seemed to be lacking. Quite honestly, her personality and somewhat plastic and practiced demeanor struck me watching Hillary Redux.

But recently I must admit I'm warming up to her. Though I must admit it's in-part due to my losing faith in Biden, the more I see of him in action. I suspect the other side of the equation of Biden faltering, is watch her strengthening. She seem to be getting better at this before my eyes. And I love her unabashed economic populism. Standing on the stage with Trump, it will be obvious who the genuine populist is.

Of course Trump will label her a Socialist to his Capitalist, but you know - maybe the country is ready for a more sensible more Left leaning economic populist? I know many young people are!

Beyond the fact that I think she is not entirely serious about fighting for MFA as noted by her recent evasions and word salads on the subject which are outright alarming, especially after having been burned by 2008 Obama on this subject, I too have deep concerns about her electability, and her ability to stand up to Trump in general.

Again, I think as a progressive representative goes, Bernie is the more reliable option, both from a policy standpoint and from an electibility one.

Having said that, regardless of which of the two becomes the flagbearer of the progressive left, I would prefer either to Biden exponentially.

 

[Surrealistik]

Biden is intellectually vacant. He can fool many who are low information voters, because he has spent so much time in politics and he can parrot the political talk of his intellectually stronger colleagues. But deep down, he's a third rate brain. Warren's a bit smarter, but even more dishonest than Biden. Plus her main drive is having and she sees government as a weapon to be used against those who don't agree with her.

Warren is an order of magnitude smarter than Biden; it's not even close man. That goes for the current president as well, regardless of what you may think of her politics.

 

[Moderate Right]

Trump will call every Democrat a socialist so nobody should lose sleep over that. I always knew she dominated the policy discussion, and her economic message is perfect.

Most of them are and if a more centrist person like Biden wins the nomination and picks a socialist for his VP, then they deserve the label. This might turn out to be an election where one side is labeled racist and the other side are labeled socialists.

 

[Moderate Right]

And, Ditto! :cheers:

Well then, you must absolutely cringe when seeing the likes of Warren & Harris!

If push comes to shove, I do prefer more progressive Dem candidates, but I'm also perfectly fine with the more moderate Dems like Biden. If you haven't noticed, the Dem's are pulling Biden quite a bit Left of where he's been historically.

So I suppose the days of JFK are now long gone at the national level, though I'm proud to say there seems to be room in the party at the local levels for guys like Conner Lamb. Lamb's someone who I hope finds a long & influential future in the party, because I'd very much want the Dems to be a true "open tent" party, in contrast the the G.O.P. lurching Right and requiring litmus tests. The Dems have to find a way to at least appear respectful of the pro-life & pro-2A crowds, and to tolerate diverse opinion and P.O.V., while focusing on the country's common social & economic issues.

As to more moderate Dems, have you paid any attention to Amy Klobuchar? I actually like her. She has that pragmatic, calm & sensible, Midwest folksy honest demeanor that appeals to me. She's the antithesis of Trump, in that way. And she seems very realistic and pragmatic.

Most of the country thinks of the Midwest as "conservative". That is true, but it traditionally is a brand of conservatism that is quite different than "Southern" or "Trump" conservatism. Midwest conservatism traditionally has been a very moderate and sensible conservatism, very pragmatic, and even having a moderate compassionate streak. There even used to be a common phrase of, "Midwest Sensibilities". I heard that all the time growing up, but only realized what it was when I became an adult and got to see the contrasts among the other areas of the country.

Oh well. No one seems to like my calm, pragmatic, sensible "Midwestern Lady". She's floundering in the polls. Everyone wants excitement these days, it seems.

I disagree that the socialists are pulling Biden more left than where he had been. In fact, I would argue that Biden is further right than he used to be. He hasn't been afraid to show everyone that he is a centrist and not a socialist. I kind of like that about him but, if he picks a socialist as his VP to pacify that wing of the party, then I'm done considering him as an option. If he picks another moderate such as John Hickenlooper as his VP I might have to seriously consider voting for that ticket over Trump.

 

[MTAtech]

Wrong the war put people back to work. It was the selling of materials to Germany and Japan that put America back to work. Then we sold to both sides until congress finally put a stop to us selling to our enemies. Read some real history not the wonderful story we were taught in our bias schools.

I know, FDR did such a poor job that he was re-elected three times in landslide elections.

 

[JMR]

Warren gamed the system with fake Indian heritage ....woke Dems will never give her a pass..

please indicate which position she got by gaming the system. I think you will find the answer is zero.

 

[JMR]

I suspect Booker knows that only a Hail Mary thrown eighty yards to the end zone will win it for him. So this is his version.

I really do not know what Biden would be willing to do for Booker who is already a US Senator with a promising future ahead of him. I also think that Biden has his eye on Harris for his VP and that would leave Booker where he is. But time will tell.

Booker stated last night that he did not think there should be two males on the ticket.

 

[JMR]

I can see that, because I'm wavering on Biden a bit now too.

While I see Biden doing well in the more moderate & Midwestern states, which are very important, I'm now developing strong concerns of him have the charisma and policy to excite the growing Dem progressive base. I'm thinking Dems might be better to do as Trump does, which is focus on the base. Biden can't do that in the way the more progressive and younger candidates can.

I think a problem for the democratic nominees is that there are two bases. The older more moderate base which usually gets to the polls, and the younger more progressive base that sometimes stays home. We will need a ticket that is attractive to both. Of course the reality of the opposing candidate should help with voter turnout

 

[AlbqOwl]

She blows the smoke out her ass.

Come on guys. I disagree with a LOT of Warren's concepts and policies, but we do ourselves no favor when we behave like leftists in our criticism. Elizabeth Warren is attractive, personable when she wants to be, and I don't see her as a terrible speaker at all. She is just wrong on most of the issues and I will oppose her for that reason. But she doesn't deserve to be trashed on the internet just because we strongly disagree with her.

 

[AlbqOwl]

please indicate which position she got by gaming the system. I think you will find the answer is zero.

I don't KNOW whether she used her phony 'native American heritage' to gain any position. But she sure as hell milked it for all it was worth before even the Democrats couldn't support her on that with a straight face. And for her to list herself as Native American on professional credentials is not a credit to her character.

Deadly to her political fortunes? Probably not as most Democrats don't seem to care a whole lot about character so long as somebody has a "D" after their name, and I'm not convinced something like that should condemn a person for life. Call it embroidering a resume. But she didn't do herself any favors.

 

[JMR]

You call it toe the line, I call it watching from where the wind blows. If, i.e., blacks would speak up in support for Biden about having had to deal with Segregationists, and pointing out that he was part of the progress that was made at the time, both Booker and Harris would quickly have a change of heart and see the light.
W have to hear what Biden actually said, instead of make up something that fits the politically expedient narrative. I am not a fan of Biden, but must hand it to him. He actually showed more spine that those 2 combined. He was honest about it, in part knowing that it would have surfaced eventually.
Both Booker and Harris judge by a current set of norms, not by what once was a reality. I would make a bet that both of them could not, and would not, be able to let progress happen because they'd be too busy being offended.

John Lewis came to the defense of Biden. As did several other older African American representatives. Booker and Harris responded in the way of younger people's view of the issue. Both got more air time this week because of their response. Maybe they took a lesson from Trump....any press is good press? I don't think Harris or Booker will use their precious few minutes in the debates to attack Biden on this.

 

[Lovebug]

John Lewis came to the defense of Biden. As did several other older African American representatives. Booker and Harris responded in the way of younger people's view of the issue. Both got more air time this week because of their response. Maybe they took a lesson from Trump....any press is good press? I don't think Harris or Booker will use their precious few minutes in the debates to attack Biden on this.

We'll have to see. They may not use their minutes, but it gets them headlines. Smart move? Time will tell.

 

[JMR]

I can understand, even appreciate that as your honest heart lies left of center. But from my world view he is among the least dangerous of those running. I do NOT want a President with a Marxist mentality hell bent on changing America into something it has never been and should never be. And the Democrat candidates who share my point of view about that are being booed off stages everywhere. In my opinion, a lot of the front runners are exactly that kind of person. Biden at least has not (yet) become a pariah to the Democratic base.

You object strongly to "extremists" on the left, overlooking the extremist qualities of Trump. He is dismantling government agencies that protect our air, water, education, you name it, withdrawing from treaties on whims, leaving important positions unfilled, the list goes on. MOST people would see this as extreme and also actually happening, and not rail against imaginary Marxists. JMO

 

[JMR]

I like her policies very much, but I just had no confidence she would prevail in the body politic. She seemed to falter during large uncontrolled Q & A sessions in uncontrolled hostile environments, as was seen in her press gaggles just after her genetic's test. Some of those were pretty cringe-worth. In addition, her public personal charisma seemed to be lacking. Quite honestly, her personality and somewhat plastic and practiced demeanor struck me watching Hillary Redux.

But recently I must admit I'm warming up to her. Though I must admit it's in-part due to my losing faith in Biden, the more I see of him in action. I suspect the other side of the equation of Biden faltering, is watch her strengthening. She seem to be getting better at this before my eyes. And I love her unabashed economic populism. Standing on the stage with Trump, it will be obvious who the genuine populist is.

Of course Trump will label her a Socialist to his Capitalist, but you know - maybe the country is ready for a more sensible more Left leaning economic populist? I know many young people are!

Trump is an extremist who tries to occupy the middle ground, but has not claim to it.

Warren is a gifted teacher, and it shows in her answers to questions at town halls. Complete thoughts, logical explanations, original thinking. I think she's great. I don't know if she'll win the nomination but there should definitely be a meaningful place for her in the next administration.

 

[JMR]

I don't KNOW whether she used her phony 'native American heritage' to gain any position. But she sure as hell milked it for all it was worth before even the Democrats couldn't support her on that with a straight face. And for her to list herself as Native American on professional credentials is not a credit to her character.

Deadly to her political fortunes? Probably not as most Democrats don't seem to care a whole lot about character so long as somebody has a "D" after their name, and I'm not convinced something like that should condemn a person for life. Call it embroidering a resume. But she didn't do herself any favors.

Interesting comment from someone who just stated she hopes Trump "does not falter".

All relative reporting shows she never gained a position due to this on her profile, and I have no reason to believe it was not an honest mistake.

 

[Lovebug]

Trump is an extremist who tries to occupy the middle ground, but has not claim to it.

Warren is a gifted teacher, and it shows in her answers to questions at town halls. Complete thoughts, logical explanations, original thinking. I think she's great. I don't know if she'll win the nomination but there should definitely be a meaningful place for her in the next administration.

On that we can agree.

 

[TurtleDude]

Warren is an order of magnitude smarter than Biden; it's not even close man. That goes for the current president as well, regardless of what you may think of her politics.

I think the smartest guy to run for president since 2000 was Romney. Then Obama.

 

[TurtleDude]

Trump is an extremist who tries to occupy the middle ground, but has not claim to it.

Warren is a gifted teacher, and it shows in her answers to questions at town halls. Complete thoughts, logical explanations, original thinking. I think she's great. I don't know if she'll win the nomination but there should definitely be a meaningful place for her in the next administration.

warren is a fraud who sees government as a weapon. She also is intrinsically dishonest. Trump panders to what he thinks is popular. Much like Bill Clinton.

 

[Surrealistik]

You call it toe the line, I call it watching from where the wind blows. If, i.e., blacks would speak up in support for Biden about having had to deal with Segregationists, and pointing out that he was part of the progress that was made at the time, both Booker and Harris would quickly have a change of heart and see the light.
W have to hear what Biden actually said, instead of make up something that fits the politically expedient narrative. I am not a fan of Biden, but must hand it to him. He actually showed more spine that those 2 combined. He was honest about it, in part knowing that it would have surfaced eventually.
Both Booker and Harris judge by a current set of norms, not by what once was a reality. I would make a bet that both of them could not, and would not, be able to let progress happen because they'd be too busy being offended.

IMO the issue is not working with segregationists so much, because once upon a time, you kinda had to, but his closeness with and glowing words he said about demonstrable racists.

This isn't really a major issue though, in my view anyways (though it's still a strike against him), as compared to his horrible legislative track record and judgement, but others will be much less forgiving.

 

[Lovebug]

IMO the issue is not working with segregationists so much, because once upon a time, you kinda had to, but his closeness with and glowing words he said about demonstrable racists.

This isn't really a major issue though, in my view anyways (though it's still a strike against him), as compared to his horrible legislative track record and judgement, but others will be much less forgiving.

My beef with Biden isn't about his recent comments, but his weakness, seemingly lack of enthusiasm. Even conviction and insincerity. It almost seems like someone convinced him to run against his better judgment.

 

[Surrealistik]

My beef with Biden isn't about his recent comments, but his weakness, seemingly lack of enthusiasm. Even conviction and insincerity. It almost seems like someone convinced him to run against his better judgment.

I wouldn't doubt it. Personally I feel it's probable he was prodded/pressured by the powers that be within Democratic leadership to blockade or otherwise frustrate the rise of the progressive wing, though I don't believe that accounts for the entirety of his candidacy.