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Bible Studies at White House. [W:154]

Re: Bible Studies at White House.

So you are calling Pastor Black a liar. You don't believe it and you are an atheist.

Next! :lamo

Yup, he is calling him a liar and I am calling him a liar too if he claims he converted/made 13 non-believing or other believing heads of state suddenly into Christians. And if he is not guilty of lying, he is guilty of the sin of pride ;) for boasting about such religious things.

But seriously, most people in Africa are either Christian already or Muslim. There are just three countries where neither Muslim or Christianity is the main religion. 21 African countries have 75% or more of their population who are Christians, 16 of them have populations of which at least 80% is Muslim. There are only 53 nations in Africa and 37 of them are already out of contention (most likely) as to have a leader who either converted or suddenly found Christianity where before he was either Muslim or non Christian.

Only in Madagascar, Mauritius, Togo, South Sudan, Benin and Sierra Leone is there a population where 30% or more are of traditional religions.

But even in South Sudan, 2/3 of people are either Christian or Muslim. In Benin that is also true, 2/3 are either Christian or Muslim.

In only 8 out of the 53 African countries the percentage of Christians and Muslims together is lower then 75%. In fact only in 3 countries is the percentage of Muslims and Christians less that 2/3's of the population. And those countries are Madagascar, Mauritius and Togo.

The boast of this man seems highly unlikely to be accurate. He may have helped them find christ in their hearts again, but "making them into Christians" sounds illogical/untrue.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

Yup, he is calling him a liar and I am calling him a liar too if he claims he converted/made 13 non-believing or other believing heads of state suddenly into Christians. And if he is not guilty of lying, he is guilty of the sin of pride ;) for boasting about such religious things.

But seriously, most people in Africa are either Christian already or Muslim. There are just three countries where neither Muslim or Christianity is the main religion. 21 African countries have 75% or more of their population who are Christians, 16 of them have populations of which at least 80% is Muslim. There are only 53 nations in Africa and 37 of them are already out of contention (most likely) as to have a leader who either converted or suddenly found Christianity where before he was either Muslim or non Christian.

Only in Madagascar, Mauritius, Togo, South Sudan, Benin and Sierra Leone is there a population where 30% or more are of traditional religions.

But even in South Sudan, 2/3 of people are either Christian or Muslim. In Benin that is also true, 2/3 are either Christian or Muslim.

In only 8 out of the 53 African countries the percentage of Christians and Muslims together is lower then 75%. In fact only in 3 countries is the percentage of Muslims and Christians less that 2/3's of the population. And those countries are Madagascar, Mauritius and Togo.

The boast of this man seems highly unlikely to be accurate. He may have helped them find christ in their hearts again, but "making them into Christians" sounds illogical/untrue.

Believe what you will.
Personally I can think of no good reason for the pastor to lie about a senator he did not identify by name or party.
There seems to be confusion of what it means to lead someone to Christ.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

Believe what you will.
Personally I can think of no good reason for the pastor to lie about a senator he did not identify by name or party.
There seems to be confusion of what it means to lead someone to Christ.

I am talking about the 13 heads of state, and there is no possibility to lead a christian to christ, he is already "led" to this imaginary figure (at least for which no evidence of existence exists).
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

You are wrong, Pastor Black who holds bible study and prayer time with both sides of the aisle of the Senate that wish to attend weekly, has made the claim. He refused to give a name of the senator responsible of bringing 13 heads of state from Africa to Christ. A non believer would not understand that. A believer does.

Before you respond to me again, watch the video.

Why? That doesn't make any sense. Why would the identity of this senator need to be kept hidden? What purpose does that make?
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

Because this had an element of politics to it, I felt I had to post it in this forum but rather would have liked to have posted it in the Religion forum.

But here goes....

Several of Trump's cabinet meet weekly for bible study. It's an amazing report that believers will find amazement and comfort.

Bible Studies at the White House: Who's Inside This Spiritual Awakening? | CBN News

But it even gets better for the believer as the chaplain of the Senate holds bible study too and he told of Democrats and Republicans showing up in the early morning hours to study the Word together and pray together. He also told of one senator who has led 13 African heads of state to Christ.
Imagine greater.....
It is a lovely interview that believers will appreciate.

Senate Chaplain in Awe of Senator Who's Led 13 Heads of State to Christ | CBN News


13 African heads of state !!!!!

You really want to discuss Christianity in Africa. That means you will have to defend it. Which should prove amusing.

Let's start with one so called Christian head of state.
Mugabe?s Policies Starve Zimbabweans | Inter Press Service
Over two million Zimbabweans are set to face food shortages in 2014, thanks largely to the failure of President Robert Mugabe’s controversial land policies.

Not to mention what Christian missionaries brought to Africa.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/church-faces-africa-abuse-scandal-155592.html
THE Catholic Church is facing yet another abuse scandal after a series of Irish priests were accused of raping and abusing young children and teenagers while working as missionaries in Africa over the past three decades
Any association with this article and an unnamed senator are of your own doing.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

I'm very respectful of religion. Your excluding my opinion based on my lack of religious belief is bigoted. You have no reason.

It is one thing to state you are respectful of religion but a person's actions may not prove that to be the case.

I do not think your actions in the thread support your claim.

The two links to interviews I posted in the OP any believer will find uplifting. It was never for the non-believer. You see to the believer they know G-d is in control even when there is chaos all around. They do not put their faith in men but G-d and they know that G-d calls men and women to serve where he needs them and that includes governments. Throughout Scripture we have examples of G-d raising even non-believers to power to fulfill his plan. Believers know what that plan includes.

This is the most evangelical cabinet to serve in over a century. And how fitting in a time where the whole Middle East is on fire.

Peace.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

It is one thing to state you are respectful of religion but a person's actions may not prove that to be the case.

I do not think your actions in the thread support your claim.

The two links to interviews I posted in the OP any believer will find uplifting. It was never for the non-believer. You see to the believer they know G-d is in control even when there is chaos all around. They do not put their faith in men but G-d and they know that G-d calls men and women to serve where he needs them and that includes governments. Throughout Scripture we have examples of G-d raising even non-believers to power to fulfill his plan. Believers know what that plan includes.

This is the most evangelical cabinet to serve in over a century. And how fitting in a time where the whole Middle East is on fire.

Peace.

I must believe the claim of some dude that works for congress or I'm somehow attacking your, what, pulpit? You're not Trump. You can't just post crap and it's automatically real.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

So you are calling Pastor Black a liar. You don't believe it and you are an atheist.

Next! :lamo
Aw, quit misrepresenting what was actually said by eco. He clearly stated that the pastor could have gotten it wrong and that that does not necessarily constitute lying.

As to anyone not believing a tale, live with it (no need to use the utterly non-sequitur atheist dung-fling).

If you're looking for a safe space where you're free from your narrative being doubted, you should indeed have posted this whole thing in "religious discussions".
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

It is one thing to state you are respectful of religion but a person's actions may not prove that to be the case...........................~.
Well, thankfully you never claimed to be respectful of opinions that differ from yours.

That's good because you'd be in a real bind now, otherwise.:mrgreen:
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

If you're looking for a safe space where you're free from your narrative being doubted, you should indeed have posted this whole thing in "religious discussions".

It's not a theological discussion/debate.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

~......................The two links to interviews I posted in the OP any believer will find uplifting. It was never for the non-believer.
Then you should indeed (as already stated) have gone to "religious discussions" straight away.

Here debate governs and that means you don't get to preclude anyone from joining in.
You see to the believer they know G-d is in control even when there is chaos all around. They do not put their faith in men but G-d and they know that G-d calls men and women to serve where he needs them and that includes governments. Throughout Scripture we have examples of G-d raising even non-believers to power to fulfill his plan. Believers know what that plan includes.
Explanation noted and appreciated.
This is the most evangelical cabinet to serve in over a century. And how fitting in a time where the whole Middle East is on fire.
........even where the logic of that conflation appears somewhat elusive.

Surely you're not attempting to claim that the best fire brigade for the M.E. conflagration need be evangelical?
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

I must believe the claim of some dude that works for congress or I'm somehow attacking your, what, pulpit? You're not Trump. You can't just post crap and it's automatically real.

First off it wasn't crap to a believer who understands it. No one was expecting an atheist to agree, certainly not me as I hesitated to post it in this thread due to politics but I am sure glad I did.

Have you ever heard the Scripture from Matt. "Don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. Basically that takes in one's varied interests are kept separate. YOu don't toot your own horn for doing something good. For example people involved in missionary work do it out of love for G-d and their fellow man, not for at a boys.

No man has the power to change another's heart only G-d can. But if there is a soul who wants to have a relationship with HIM and is seeking him, G-d has a way of sending one of HIS to cross their path.

A lot of you folks in this thread refused to believe there is a senator that has led 13 African heads of state to Christ. So be it. But I did some research on foreign relations and I have a hunch who it is but will never tell but instead praise G-d for providing this person to cross the path of the one searching for HIM.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

It's not a theological discussion/debate.
Not to you and not to me, maybe.

With someone else I'm not so sure.

What with the "go hither, filthy heathen" thing.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

Not to you and not to me, maybe.

With someone else I'm not so sure.

What with the "go hither, filthy heathen" thing.

No faith in Chaplins is expected. That part is not theological without Biblical reference.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

No faith in Chaplins is expected. That part is not theological without Biblical reference.
I never got to know the Chaplins although I found Charlie quite funny.:lol:
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

I never got to know the Chaplins although I found Charlie quite funny.:lol:
I've met a few. Maybe the senator helped to understand a verse more extensively. It kinda sounds like more; intentionally?
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

First off it wasn't crap to a believer who understands it. No one was expecting an atheist to agree, certainly not me as I hesitated to post it in this thread due to politics but I am sure glad I did.

Have you ever heard the Scripture from Matt. "Don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. Basically that takes in one's varied interests are kept separate. YOu don't toot your own horn for doing something good. For example people involved in missionary work do it out of love for G-d and their fellow man, not for at a boys.

No man has the power to change another's heart only G-d can. But if there is a soul who wants to have a relationship with HIM and is seeking him, G-d has a way of sending one of HIS to cross their path.

A lot of you folks in this thread refused to believe there is a senator that has led 13 African heads of state to Christ. So be it. But I did some research on foreign relations and I have a hunch who it is but will never tell but instead praise G-d for providing this person to cross the path of the one searching for HIM.

What does "led to Christ" mean, in this case. Are we talkin' a walk to church, Bible study, revelation or salvation.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

What does "led to Christ" mean, in this case. Are we talkin' a walk to church, Bible study, revelation or salvation.

First off a person does not get led unless he already is seeking G-d. This person already realizes there is something greater than him or her and is seeking HIM.

Led to Christ is the person that G-d places in the path of this individual willing and well versed in the Scriptures to have fellowship time with this individual answering all his questions and teaching Bible truths. Taking time to pray with him and for him/her. This relationship can go on for years before this person comes to Christ.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

First off a person does not get led unless he already is seeking G-d. This person already realizes there is something greater than him or her and is seeking HIM.

Led to Christ is the person that G-d places in the path of this individual willing and well versed in the Scriptures to have fellowship time with this individual answering all his questions and teaching Bible truths. Taking time to pray with him and for him/her. This relationship can go on for years before this person comes to Christ.

Years of studying together? That's respectable.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

I would feel a lot better if these people spent their time studying something like science, logic, history, economics, almost anything would be better than spending their time reading fairy tales.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

So you are calling Pastor Black a liar.
No, however claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Black is the 62nd chaplain of the Senate and the former chief of chaplains for the U.S. Navy, yet he states in the interview some senators dwarf him in spirituality.
I know from your comments you did not bother to watch the interview.
Too bad.
The interview doesn't matter. Spirituality in is not something that can be measured.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

Ecofarm said:
Why does he have to be a liar to be wrong?

I would venture to guess that he's both a liar and wrong. The faithful have a way of demanding that their claims be honored absent all relevant data so it doesn't surprise me that you were dismissed outright by Vesper.

Personally, I am offended at the idea that converting Africans to christianity is a noble act. It never was and never will be. It is, instead, an act of self-serving piety in a dynamic of power inequality that desires to change minds about something that is only accepted as a mindless act. To brag about it is utter douchbaggery.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

I would feel a lot better if these people spent their time studying something like science, logic, history, economics, almost anything would be better than spending their time reading fairy tales.

"fairy tale"?

You've obviously never spent any quality time studying it. Nor can you back up your fairy tale claim with any credible evidence or arguments.
 
Re: Bible Studies at White House.

"fairy tale"?

You've obviously never spent any quality time studying it. Nor can you back up your fairy tale claim with any credible evidence or arguments.

I have spent time studying the Bible, which is why I accurately described it as a fairy tale. Pregnant virgins? A fairy tale. A talking snake? A fairy tale. A whale swallowing a man? A fairy tale. The Sun being stopped in the sky? A fairy tale. An alleged God that is so immoral it punishes the innocent by torturing them in hell forever? A fairy tale.

There is nothing in the Bible that is not simply made-up fairy tales. If you believe that a whale can swallow a man, if you believe in talking snakes, pregnant virgins, then you believe in fairy tales.
 
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