Bernie Sanders Enters 2020 Presidential Campaign, No Longer An Underdog

[jmotivator]

I agree that he would smash Trump in an election or a debate, but does he really have a chance to make it out of a primary that is looking for fresh faces such as Harris and O'Rourke? I mean, granted, the presence of a far larger field than 2016 means he has a smaller percentage to reach to get a majority, but the guy is ooooold... what happens when - say - Sherrod Brown gets in? Or someone like Williamson or O'Rourke takes off? (both insurgents, like Sanders, but without the age issue and 2016 baggage)

I think you give Sanders abilities at debate too much credit. He is a populist, and he makes points on generalities and factless assertions... a debate between Sanders and Trump would come down to who is the better populist mouth piece and Sanders would just lose. Moreover, Sanders would have to run on his Socialist tropes of failing economy and class warfare which have an effectiveness that is inversely related to how well economy is actually doing.

 

[pilot16]

I think you give Sanders abilities at debate too much credit. He is a populist, and he makes points on generalities and factless assertions... a debate between Sanders and Trump would come down to who is the better populist mouth piece and Sanders would just lose. Moreover, Sanders would have to run on his Socialist tropes of failing economy and class warfare which have an effectiveness that is inversely related to how well economy is actually doing.

The bigger issue is the democratic party has gone all in for trade. Bernie is still a no on NAFTA, TPP etc. He also endorsed tariffs. So that is going to be hard. The modern democrats have traded in the union crowd for the ivory towers of colleges. They supported all the trade agreements and are against tariffs. For the unions thats a biggie.

 

[jmotivator]

The bigger issue is the democratic party has gone all in for trade. Bernie is still a no on NAFTA, TPP etc. He also endorsed tariffs. So that is going to be hard. The modern democrats have traded in the union crowd for the ivory towers of colleges. They supported all the trade agreements and are against tariffs. For the unions thats a biggie.

I mean, that is a pretty good point too. When it comes to economics, he's half Trumpian already... and only the bad half!

 

[Surrealistik]

I think you give Sanders abilities at debate too much credit. He is a populist, and he makes points on generalities and factless assertions... a debate between Sanders and Trump would come down to who is the better populist mouth piece and Sanders would just lose. Moreover, Sanders would have to run on his Socialist tropes of failing economy and class warfare which have an effectiveness that is inversely related to how well economy is actually doing.

I'm not sure which factless assertions you're referring to, but Sanders would win on policy; virtually all of his corner stone ideas are tremendously popular with majoritarian to super majoritarian support; meanwhile there are countless missteps he can point to with regards to Trump and his blatant cronyism and own enacted policies that are unpopular, out him as being an exclusive mouthpiece of the wealthy or both, nevermind a choice selection of blatantly inane and ridiculous statements that are by far among the most patently absurd I've ever heard from a POTUS. When it comes to the blue collar vote/economic populism, Bernie eats Trump's lunch besides.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

I'm not sure which factless assertions you're referring to, but Sanders would win on policy; virtually all of his corner stone ideas are tremendously popular with majoritarian to super majoritarian support; meanwhile there are countless missteps he can point to with regards to Trump and his blatant cronyism and own enacted policies that are unpopular, out him as being an exclusive mouthpiece of the wealthy or both, nevermind a choice selection of blatantly inane and ridiculous statements that are by far among the most patently absurd I've ever heard from a POTUS. When it comes to the blue collar vote/economic populism, Bernie eats Trump's lunch besides.

And he'd get even more mollywhopped going up against Sherrod Brown. -wink wink nudge-

 

[jmotivator]

I'm not sure which factless assertions you're referring to, but Sanders would win on policy; virtually all of his corner stone ideas are tremendously popular with majoritarian to super majoritarian support; meanwhile there are countless missteps he can point to with regards to Trump and his blatant cronyism and own enacted policies that are unpopular, out him as being an exclusive mouthpiece of the wealthy or both, nevermind a choice selection of blatantly inane and ridiculous statements that are by far among the most patently absurd I've ever heard from a POTUS. When it comes to the blue collar vote/economic populism, Bernie eats Trump's lunch besides.

Well, no, Kaiser, for instance, did a follow up poll on the Medicare-for-All support and found that while people overwhelmingly supported it in theory, in practice they didn't support it at all.

Polls are all in how you ask the questions.

Like the old joke "85% of UK residents love the NHS... the other 15% are sick."

 

[Surrealistik]

Well, no, Kaiser, for instance, did a follow up poll on the Medicare-for-All support and found that while people overwhelmingly supported it in theory, in practice they didn't support it at all.

Polls are all in how you ask the questions.

Like the old joke "85% of UK residents love the NHS... the other 15% are sick."

I'm familiar with the Kaiser poll, where they posited the asinine notion that all private insurance would be eliminated... which is basically not the case anywhere SP is enacted as they continue to exist as supplemental providers; it's a complete non-starter.

Another poll has majority support even if higher taxes are involved to support MFA: CNN Poll: Most think the government should provide a national health insurance program - CNNPolitics

 

[Surrealistik]

And he'd get even more mollywhopped going up against Sherrod Brown. -wink wink nudge-

I'll be honest, I'm not feeling Sherrod so much as nominee; I like him well enough but his policy alignments are... underwhelming to say the least.

 

[jmotivator]

I'm familiar with the Kaiser poll, where they posited the asinine notion that all private insurance would be eliminated... which is basically not the case anywhere SP is enacted as they continue to exist as supplemental providers; it's a complete non-starter.

Another poll has majority support even if higher taxes are involved to support MFA: CNN Poll: Most think the government should provide a national health insurance program - CNNPolitics

Bernie Sanders proposed plan in 2018 would outlaw private insurance that have overlapping coverage... In other words: it outlaws private insurance.

Nice try though.

likewise, polls found everyone supports higher taxes, until the question suggests the higher taxes effect them.

 

[GreatNews2night]

God help us. The idiotic grandpa has entered the race, again.

He is the second person in the world most responsible for Trump's election, behind the even more idiotic Hillary Clinton.

And he'll be 79 years old in 2010. If elected, he'd be 83 at the end of his first term, and 87 if re-elected.

His ticket must pick a very good veep, because old Bernie could croak anytime.

 

[GreatNews2night]

I backed Hilldog last time around, my mistake. This time I will back the best canidate to beat Trump. At this point it looks like Sanders. At least the guy is honest, no skeletons, and can act professional. That alone is a step up from Rump.

He is also a moron. A one-trick poney.

His platform:

Journalist - Sir, what's your platform for America?

Idiotic Bernie Sanders - Down with Wall Street! Instead, let's do free tuition for all, free healthcare for all, clean energy for all, wheeee, wheeee, wheeee!

Journalist - Sounds expensive. Sir, how do you plan to pay for all of this?

Idiotic Bernie Sanders - Huh... I don't know.

------------

That's Bernie Sanders in a nutshell.

 

[Surrealistik]

Bernie Sanders proposed plan in 2018 would outlaw private insurance that have overlapping coverage... In other words: it outlaws private insurance.

Nice try though.

That in no way forbids supplemental insurance per things not covered; again this is how private health insurance continues to exist in virtually every developed SP country.

likewise, polls found everyone supports higher taxes, until the question suggests the higher taxes effect them.

I've seen no contemporary polls supporting this, or that purport a majority is set against it when the poll taker is told that they will be subject to higher burdens. That said, there are indeed older polls exhibiting this.

 

[Fenton]

I'm still sore I didn't get to see Trump and Bernie debate. Trump would call him crazy Bernie and say something stupid about "socialism". Bernie would respond by talking about how we need medicare for all and the dignity of a living wage to great applause.

I've seen Bernie debate before and demagoguery and identity politics is all he's capable of.
It may impress his base but for everyone else it comes off as insulting

He supports single payer, free college and Occasio's New Green Deal. Voters are wanna know how he plans on paying for all of this, and are smart enough to know taxing the rich isn't going to cut it.

 

[yankintx]

He is also a moron. A one-trick poney.

His platform:

Journalist - Sir, what's your platform for America?

Idiotic Bernie Sanders - Down with Wall Street! Instead, let's do free tuition for all, free healthcare for all, clean energy for all, wheeee, wheeee, wheeee!

Journalist - Sounds expensive. Sir, how do you plan to pay for all of this?

Idiotic Bernie Sanders - Huh... I don't know.

------------

That's Bernie Sanders in a nutshell.

And Trump is no better. At least Sanders could have acted the part.

How will you pay for the wall?

Trump: Mexico?

 

[OscarLevant]

One has to wonder about Trump. Here's his party affiliations.

For the record
Until 1987 Trump was a Democrat
From 1987-1999 he was a Republican
In 1999 Trump became an Independent
2000 to 2001 Trump was a member of the Reform Party
2001 to 2009 he was a Democrat again
2009 to 2011 he became a Republican
2011 to 2012 Trump was a registered Independent
2012 to present he became a Republican again.

I was amazed that the Republican Party would nominate an 8 time party switcher. Trump owes no party loyalty to them. He really doesn't have an political ideology to speak of. Unless one thinks "The Wall," is a political ideology. I agree, he is not conservative. I think we seen this during his campaign with his supporters calling him a populist, a nationalist, even a nativist, anything but a conservative. Outside of the democratic party, few republicans would even today tag Trump as a conservative.

I think Trump was successful within the GOP as a lot of its members thought when the Republicans gained control of the House in 2010 they would govern and give the GOP base everything they wanted. They became very angry when that didn't happen. Forget the senate remained in Democratic hands and Obama was still president. There really wasn't anything the GOP house could do to combat that. Anger gave rise to Trump and what I see as a failure to understand how our government works. Taking the House wasn't going to change much. Sure it might stop a lot of Obama's inititives, but they could get none of their own.

Yes, I know that most independents lean one way or the other. History shows that those who identify with either major party vote for their candidates approximately 90% of the time. Independents who lean vote for candidates of the party they lean to a bit above 70%. You do have approximately 15-20% of independents with no leans or what I call true or pure independents. This is why the Democrats can win the independent vote 57-39% in 2006 and 51-46 in 2008, but lose them to the Republicans 37-56 in 2010, 49-50% in 2012, 42-54 in 2014. Independents in 2016 voted for Trump over Hillary 46-42 with 12% voting third party, but in congressional elections independents voted Republican 51-46. 2018 was another reversal with independents going Democratic 54-42. This is the recent history of independents.

Democrats has received a high of 57% of the independent vote over this time period and a low of 37%. republicans a high of 56% and a low of 39%. Independents are also far more likely to vote third party if they don't like the candidates or the major parties. We seen this in 2016 where only 3% of democrats voted third party, 4% of Republicans while 12% of independents did. In fact 9 million voters refused to choose between Trump and Clinton. You could have more than that if the Democrats nominate the wrong candidate.

None of those past races for dems had the benefit of someone like Trump destroying the republican party, american instiutions, and just being an all around disaster. Odds are, 2020 is going to be big for dems.

I could be wrong, but that is my gut feeling. My gut feeling that more people would vote for Hillary than Trump was correct. No one forsaw the EC. Another thing, in 2020, EC win on minority has never happened on a really wide vote margin win. All dems need is a stronger candidate than Hillary. Trump's EC win was unspectacular, and he ownly won by 80,000 votes in the swing states. Bernie cold easily clench those back from Trump. See, the best candidate to beat Trump is Bernie. It's all about "who is the real populist". Bernie's populist credentials are authentic and unimpeachable. I can't say that about Trump. THe contrast will be so pronounced, no one can miss, except the dumb and dumber.

 

[OscarLevant]

And Trump is no better. At least Sanders could have acted the part.

How will you pay for the wall?

Trump: Mexico?

One small problem with your analysis. You can't convey what an orchestra sounds like by playing a flute.


Put your flute down, and listen to the orchestra. But, if you are mentally tone deaf, not much I can do about that.

 

[MauiMan]

Bernie Sanders Enters 2020 Presidential Campaign, No Longer An Underdog

February 19, 20196:22 AM ET

SCOTT DETROW

JESSICA TAYLOR

I don't care who it is in 2020. Get the Orange Trumpet OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE!

Any mature adult will do. Go 2020!

 

[OscarLevant]

I really think there will be 5 or so big states for 2020. All rust belt midwestern. Dems need someone to appeal there.

Klobuchar would, but she's not where I think the majority of the party is, now, but I could be wrong. We'll know in the coming months.

 

[Surrealistik]

I really think there will be 5 or so big states for 2020. All rust belt midwestern. Dems need someone to appeal there.

Of the current contenders I don't think anyone would appeal more to the rust belt than Bernie TBH.

 

[Aristaeus]

And he is a democratic socialist.

In the history of the world the most successful economies were socialist/democratic hybrids, which whether people like it or not is exactly what America is.

Maybe it's time to have a president that understands that...

America is certainly not a social democracy.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

When? Recently?

EDIT:



Not good, but 1) it wasn't a PAC. and 2) it seems like a one-off since I can't find anything else.

Either way, a vast improvement over the current occupant (and his charisma combined with his objective criticism of both Trump AND Obama still earns him brownie points above other possible establishment/false-dichotomy sycophants like Harris or Biden).

Yes, it's just one example, but one example is enough to dismiss him when we have better candidates with better records in the running. I don't dislike Beto, and supported his run in Texas, but I would vote for Ojeda (who's no longer running) Liz, Gabbard, and Bernie before Beto. I would certainly cast my vote for Beto before doing so for Cory Booker or Kamala Harris, both of which are both obviously paying lip-service to the progressive movement, and nothing more.

Even if Sanders, the obvious front-runner, had not announced, I simply do not have time to take a chance on someone who might not fight hard against income inequality, climate change and campaign finance reform. I foolishly dismissed Obama's Wall St. funding when I first heard about it, naively thinking that it would not translate to anti-populist policy, but Obama turned out to be, as he once bragged, like a moderate Republican. We need someone who will get in there and actually show the country what 'socialusm' that they're so afraid of actually looks like. It's about four decades due for the Overton window to shift, and that means destroying right-wing economic rhetoric, and unless I'm mistaken, the last time the Republicans had to clam up and move towards the left, rather than the reverse, was when social security ended up not destroying the nation.

Yes, Beto is younger, and a smooth-talker, but this is not 1992. Bill Clinton is not the ideal model for a 2020 presidential candidate. What works is a powerful message, and Bernie has been documented saying the same things and fighting for the same things for decades. He's tried, true, and proven to be golden when it comes to integrity in politics. The media could say he's too old, and trot out the same obsolete talking points in regards to what constitutes as 'electibility', but he's all over the place, sometimes doing three rallies in a day, and still draws massive crowds and has the love of the entire progressive movement. Mark my words, the man is unstoppable.

There's the chance that he dies in office, even during his first term, but I would rather have a year with him in office than not. An adequate running-mate abolishes any real concerns I might have over this, and my money is on Tulsi Gabbard.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

God help us. The idiotic grandpa has entered the race, again.

He is the second person in the world most responsible for Trump's election, behind the even more idiotic Hillary Clinton.

And he'll be 79 years old in 2010. If elected, he'd be 83 at the end of his first term, and 87 if re-elected.

His ticket must pick a very good veep, because old Bernie could croak anytime.

Gee, you don't like either of the two major nominess from the 2015 Democratic primary . . . are you sure that you were wanting the Democrats to win at all?

Idiot grandpa. What's idiotic about him, his policies, or the fact that he ran? Dude, for one thing, a lot of the people who were supporting Bernie would have never gone to the polls in the first place. We have a low voter turn-out because nobody has any faith in American politics. I've been a sort of political junkie ever since I decided that history was my favorite subject in high-school, and never failed to vote since. I became so disillusioned by politics that I was going to hang up my hat and stop torturing myself. Guess who lit a fire under my ass and caused me to give a **** again?

Bernie. ****ing. Sanders.

I'm not the only one, either. It's why we've got AOC. It's why David Doel ran for office in Canada, lost and then started a successful YouTube channel. He inspires people. He brings titans like Bezos to their knees. Most importantly, he brings kids out to vote. It's because of him that the progressive movement has become a force to be reckoned with. It's because of him that anyone is even talking about Medicare4All. It's because of him that all of the nine million candidates running for office are trying to court progressives.

You know what would have actually happened if Clinton had won? She would have been a two-term president due to the incumbant advantage, but would have done nothing to actually instill any confidence in the Democratic Party. The alt-right would not go away, and in fact, they would just sit there and broil until they exploded with a vengeance in 2020, electing . . . Donald Trump. We've been trading between both parties every administration for decades, and it's pretty obvious given that, and the pattern of our spiraling political discourse that we would merely be delaying the inevitable while perpetuating this vicious cycle.

Trump is not a fluke. The TEA party is not a fluke, the alt-right is not a fluke. This is a pattern. The GOP is getting crazier, has been getting crazier, and it's been happening because the Democrats chase them right off the rails, failing to tout anything resembeling a viable message while adopting conservative rhetoric in an attempt at appealing to moderate voters.

And who reallygives a **** about age. It's just a weak attempt at creating doubt about his campaign without actually have to battle him on policy. Worst thing that happens is that he dies or his health sinks during his first time. There's this thing called a 'vice president', and many of us progressives are eying Tulsi Gabbard for his running mate, who's only three years older than I am. While I like Tulsi less than I do Bernie, I would still be perfectly fine with her in office, but regardles of what opinionated MSM asshats say, all the signs show that Sanders is easily the best chance we got of actually winning the election. The guy raised a million dollars within four hours of launching his campaign. Even if he croaks he's at least going to be the armor-piercing round that gets the running mate elected.

 

[Oborosen]

Black folks didn't like him after BLM sabotaged one of his speeches and claimed all lives matter wasn't good enough.

He wins, just like he would have won in 2016.

Sanders carries the MW and PA, which eliminates trumps path to win. If the DNC is smart, they select sanders.

Are you really going to hedge your bets on the decisions of a group like the DNC?

 

[Oborosen]

"he would have won in 2016"

He didn't though, that's a fact.

Yeah, he lost. To some of the most ****ty political back stabbing, a magnitude that hasn't been seen since Caesar was taken down and that unlucky bastard was fortunate enough to not survive after the fact.

 

[Obscurity]

Are you really going to hedge your bets on the decisions of a group like the DNC?

My only bet is that Trump loses, because he has to lose. HE is doing so much damage to this nation and its institutions and our global façade is crumbling thanks to him. he must go.