Austin (TX) district approves revised sex ed curriculum

[WCH]

Just hope it isn't one of your grand children. Having a grand parent shame you for something you can't control is probably not pleasant.

I'm not ever trying to shame you. I doubt you have that capacity. If you would alienate your own children over something like this, there is probably not much you would do that you could be ashamed of.

I never said anything about alienating my grandchildren. You just couldn't help throwing the 'B" word around.

 

[Lisa]

Counts toward your overall credits and looks good on your transcript.

There are Gays in our extended family and one of my best friends is Gay. Doesn't mean I encourage it.


Don't even start trying to shame me.

How do you encourage someone to be gay? Do you believe that being LGB or trans is a choice that these people make? Do you think that if they are told by enough people to stop being LGBT because their gender identity or sexual orientation isn't acceptable that they can be heterosexual or CIS? Did you choose to be heterosexual because I know that I didn't make that choice? It is an innate part of who I am. Do you think that they chose to be LGBT?

 

[WCH]

How do you encourage someone to be gay? Do you believe that being LGB or trans is a choice that these people make? Do you think that if they are told by enough people to stop being LGBT because their gender identity or sexual orientation isn't acceptable that they can be heterosexual or CIS? Did you choose to be heterosexual because I know that I didn't make that choice? It is an innate part of who I am. Do you think that they chose to be LGBT?

I haven't told anyone to stop being who they believe they are.


What I believe is that it's either a mental disorder and/or blatantly ignoring the fact it's sinful.

 

[CLAX1911]

I never said anything about alienating my grandchildren. You just couldn't help throwing the 'B" word around.

If you're any kind of a good parent you should know this, disapproval is alienating. I have good parents and as a teen and a young adult their approval meant everything to me. To pretend that doesn't matter if your child or grandchild is gay just to pretend they're less than human.

I don't think you're a bad parent and I don't think you're a bad person but good people make mistakes.

 

[Lisa]

I haven't told anyone to stop being who they believe they are.


What I believe is that it's either a mental disorder and/or blatantly ignoring the fact it's sinful.

Being gay is not a mental disorder.

Sin is a religious guilt trip that organized religion has somehow managed to convince people to accept. You'll fee much better and be happier if you can away from that nonsense.

Being Gay Is Just as Healthy as Being Straight
Evelyn Hooker's pioneering research debunked the popular myth that homosexuals are inherently less mentally healthy than heterosexuals, leading to significant changes in how psychology views and treats people who are gay.
Findings
In the 1950's, Dr. Evelyn Hooker studied 30 homosexual males and 30 heterosexual males recruited through community organizations. The two groups were matched for age, IQ, and education. None of the men were in therapy at the time of the study. Dr. Hooker administered three projective tests, which measure people's patterns of thoughts, attitudes, and emotions--the Rorschach, in which people describe what they see in abstract ink blots, the Thematic Apperception Test [TAT] and the Make-A-Picture-Story [MAPS] Test), in which people tell stories about different pictures. Unaware of each subject's sexual orientation, two independent Rorschach experts evaluated the men's overall adjustment using a 5-point scale. They classified two-thirds of the heterosexuals and two-thirds of the homosexuals in the three highest categories of adjustment. When asked to identify which Rorschach protocols were obtained from homosexuals, the experts could not distinguish respondents' sexual orientation at a level better than chance. A third expert used the TAT and MAPS protocols to evaluate the psychological adjustment of the men. As with the Rorschach responses, the adjustment ratings of the homosexual and heterosexuals did not differ significantly." Based on these findings, Dr. Hooker tentatively suggested that homosexuals were as psychologically normal as heterosexuals.

Being Gay Is Just as Healthy as Being Straight

 

[CLAX1911]

I haven't told anyone to stop being who they believe they are.


What I believe is that it's either a mental disorder and/or blatantly ignoring the fact it's sinful.

This is why I said you lack the capacity I feel ashamed of this.

It's not because your bigoted per se it's because you refuse to allow yourself to empathize.

This strikes me more of a defense mechanism then we'll rationed position.

It's a lot easier to define it as a mental disorder or to say the people are blatantly being sinful then it is to try and understand than it is to try and understand them.

And it's attitudes like this that cause it to be something we talked about in schools with children. Because people don't want to emphasise they want to defend themselves and not have to examine their beliefs. That's difficult. People avoid difficult things.

People are tired of seeing people suffering because of this and your approaches there's nothing wrong they just need to quit being whatever. Or go get treatment that makes them quit being whatever.

You have said you do not care about this you do not care about these people they're just mentally disordered or blatantly sinful. You can't then scold people who are trying to deal with what you shirked.

 

[Rich2018]

...when you are tolerant of something that means you allow it to exist. It is a lower threshold then acceptance...

Agreed but intolerance does not mean that you (necessarily) cause the extinction of something you don't link

You cannot (legally) do that to a homosexual family member you have parental responsibility for
Nor can you cause a co-worker or a neighbor to not exist. You can be aggressive to your neighbor in a non violent way, and hope they leave...your place of work, your street, your town, your state etc. It is this intolerance I was talking about.

...as far as the Constitution goes there is not a legitimate effort to repeal the first amendment...

No, there is currently no major political personality calling for the repeal of the first or second amendments.

However I think both should be repealed. In the case of the 1st, the amendment to repeal would include an extensive re-write to outlaw hate speech.

...FDR was A dictator. He threatened to the Supreme Court if they went against him he would put 10 more Supreme Court justices on the bench that would side with him....

Good idea...though I would say Congressional approval should also be required. FDR was no Trump. The USA and the world was lucky to have him. In London, I've seen three public of US presidents, I wonder if you can guess who they are?

A constitutional crisis was solved in a similar way in the UK when the House of Lords opposed the House of commons over Irish Home Rule.

...I'm saying citizens have the duty to defend the Constitution and the republic from destructive leaders.

Would you say Timothy McVeigh was such a "defender" ?


You're not answering the question, are you OK with a citizen taking unilateral decision to "defend" the Constitution and overthrow the government ?


Would you support a US version of Guy Fawkes and his fellow conspirators to overthrow the government of the USA for perceived tyranny ?

 

[Rich2018]

Counts toward your overall credits and looks good on your transcript.

There are Gays in our extended family and one of my best friends is Gay. Doesn't mean I encourage it...

Bible study classes should be allowed as long as the final accepts "creation is a lie" as a correct answer

How would you act if you did want to encourage your friend's sexual attraction to other men. <Might you tell him it makes no difference to your friendship and you support his right to be who he wants to be ?

 

[Rich2018]

....suggesting I look like a total idiot because you failed to communicate is the height of irony....

Whenever I see that word I can't help but remember the scene from "The Blackadder Goes Forth"


Capt Blackadder "You don't know what irony is do you Baldrick?"
Pvt Baldrick "Yes I do, it's like goldie and steely but made of iron"

One of the best comedies ever written and Id thoroughly recommend it

...this is the first I ever even heard of unethical discrimination in this conversation...

As you said discriminating against you using a women's toilet is allowed (and ethical), discriminating against a black man over 21 (and appropriately dressed in case you wondered) is not ethical.

...as far as I'm concerned same to a couple that we won't bake a cake for your wedding because of x it's not unethical. Forcing them to do it is unethical....

If you think that, then you'd also think it unethical to force a restaurant owner serve black people when he wants whites only in his restaurant (and he's not talking about a choice in clothing).

...I know it's speech you don't like. It's people like you that necessitated the First Amendment....

No, it was actually governments who wanted to discourage opposition
It was people like Trump that necessitated it

...that's exactly what it's like...

Are you saying the Earth is flat ?

...I guess I'm shutting my eyes to all those unreported incidents that may or may not have happened, and all of those non-existent statistics....

Hopefully not to proof that the Earth is round

...it's almost like hearsay isn't proof.

The evidence given by people is.

 

[CLAX1911]

Agreed but intolerance does not mean that you (necessarily) cause the extinction of something you don't link

I agree with this. It's forcing people to leave its even trying to get people to agree with you that people should be forced to leave.

You cannot (legally) do that to a homosexual family member you have parental responsibility for
Nor can you cause a co-worker or a neighbor to not exist.

yes that's why I say tolerance is the absolute bare minimum that you are required to do by law.

That is a far cry from acceptance.

We have different words to communicate different things and even if there's nuance we go through the process I'm going through with you if you would stop being so damn phone headed you could understand there is a different threshold.

You can be aggressive to your neighbor in a non violent way, and hope they leave...your place of work, your street, your town, your state etc. It is this intolerance I was talking about.

okay with that regard I would call that non-acceptance.
because they're allowing something to exist they just don't like it.




I'm not interested in the off-topic banter.

 

[Rich2018]

I agree with this. It's forcing people to leave its even trying to get people to agree with you that people should be forced to leave...

Sorry, I did of course mean "don't like"

Intolerant people often employ "passive aggression"

...tolerance is the absolute bare minimum that you are required to do by law.

That is a far cry from acceptance....

Sadly you can get away with being intolerant - the 1st Amendment allows you to express your feelings whether they're good or bad (as long as you don't incite violence which has been ruled as not covered by the first)

...okay with that regard I would call that non-acceptance....

I don't see the difference between not accepting someone's existence or presence and being intolerant towards them

...I'm not interested in the off-topic banter.

Popular at school were you ?

 

[CLAX1911]

Sorry, I did of course mean "don't like"

Intolerant people often employ "passive aggression"

you will have to explain how aggression can be passive.

Sadly you can get away with being intolerant - the 1st Amendment allows you to express your feelings whether they're good or bad (as long as you don't incite violence which has been ruled as not covered by the first)

if you're sad about the rights you have why in the hell do you live here?

I don't see the difference between not accepting someone's existence or presence and being intolerant towards them

that's because you're pigheaded.

You are too stubborn and set your own ways to acknowledge the nuance I pointed out.

 

[Rich2018]

I am willing to read whatever evidence you can provide that there are different genders besides male and female...

People who do not wish to be or do not identify with either
This is now an option on German birth certificates Btw

...just like I'm willing to read anything you resent that would say that there is evidence for the existence of the unicorns on leprechauns...

Perhaps the rhino was the original single horned beast to the ancients and somehow was romanticized into a horse like beast

Before Christianity, the Irish believed that their kings and queens descended from gods which took the form of fairies and were as tall as people. Leprechauns were the tallest of them all. Just like Christians believe Christ was god on Earth so not an uncommon belief. Would you require evidence that Jesus existed or will you take that on faith like the Irish once did about Leprechauns ?

...but it is your burden to prove that such fanciful things exist...

You mean like Christians and Jesus ?

...you are the one insisting witches exist without providing the tiniest shred of evidence....

No, simply that 500 years ago people thought their existence was a FACT

Of course the Bible says they exist:
Exod 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"

...I don't believe genders exist..

It's OK, we live in a world where some people don't believe gravity or evolution exist...and that the Earth is flat....and in alien abduction etc

...I don't respect absurd nonsense....

Like the Earth is flat or evolution

You know when Galileo said the Earth goes round the sun and not the other way round, some people with closed minds rooted in the past wouldn't believe him.

...because you're born with it...

And the Earth goes round the sun because we've always believed it so...until Galileo and others

...my feelings aren't relevant....

Except gender and what you are born as ?

...you are being absurd. Identify sex at birth because for the most part that's when we know what it is of course we can identify it before birth because we have technology like ultrasound.

No it's a perfectly valid question (and you ramble about ultrasound tests)

What purpose does noting the apparent sex/gender of a baby serve? If the birth certificate (indeed any official documentation) didn't note this, how would the world change ?

...no it's determined not really assigned long before birth in the womb...

According to you it's assigned as male or female

...you make note of it for official record...

Yes, but to what purpose

You know it's a valid argument when the person you're arguing with descends into verbal "absolute dumbest thing" abuse in lieu of a counter argument

...biology.

And how is "biology" so served ?

 

[Rich2018]

you will have to explain how aggression can be passive.

Understanding Passive-Aggressive Behavior

5 Signs That You're Dealing With a Passive-Aggressive Person | Psychology Today

...if you're sad about the rights you have why in the hell do you live here?

Ah straight from the "if you want to vote Democrat, why don't you go live in Venezuela", school of argument

I dunno, maybe the beer ?

...that's because you're pigheaded...

You are too stubborn and set your own ways to acknowledge the nuance I pointed out.

I'll reiterate: I don't see the difference between not accepting someone's existence or presence and being intolerant towards them

People who lack a good argument, descend into, "that's because you're pigheaded" abuse.

When I said there was no good, non-religious, argument against same sex marriage (which there isn't) there was similar vitriol from those without such a good argument.

 

[CLAX1911]

People who do not wish to be or do not identify with either.[/QUOT you can identify as a purple headed hippopotamus from outer space I don't care. That doesn't make this a gender.

Perhaps the rhino was the original single horned beast to the ancients and somehow was romanticized into a horse like beast

Before Christianity, the Irish believed that their kings and queens descended from gods which took the form of fairies and were as tall as people. Leprechauns were the tallest of them all. Just like Christians believe Christ was god on Earth so not an uncommon belief. Would you require evidence that Jesus existed or will you take that on faith like the Irish once did about Leprechauns ?

so you don't have anything to support the existence of a third gender?

You mean like Christians and Jesus ?

Exactly.

No, simply that 500 years ago people thought their existence was a FACT

Of course the Bible says they exist:
Exod 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"

exactly like you you and sister leprechaun genders exist. Congratulations on being the equivalent of a 16th century illiterate Christian way to show that intellectual integrity.

It's OK, we live in a world where some people don't believe gravity or evolution exist...and that the Earth is flat....and in alien abduction etc

yes and you believe hundreds of millions of different genders exist despite the fact that you can't quantify them. people like you and flat earthers believe stupid things.

Like the Earth is flat or evolution

I would consider flat Earth and non binary genders as equal in absurdity so yes to that no to evolution.

You know when Galileo said the Earth goes round the sun and not the other way round, some people with closed minds rooted in the past wouldn't believe him.

he wasn't just insisting on it without evidence.

You are insisting on this gender nonsense without evidence.

And the Earth goes round the sun because we've always believed it so...until Galileo and others

so who's the non-binary gender equivalent of Galileo what evidence does this supposed person have?

Except gender and what you are born as ?

this is denial of science it is not my belief that there are males and females and they are born that way that is absolute undeniable fact.

No it's a perfectly valid question (and you ramble about ultrasound tests)

What purpose does noting the apparent sex/gender of a baby serve? If the birth certificate (indeed any official documentation) didn't note this, how would the world change ?

proof circumstances of birth.

According to you it's assigned as male or female

absolute hogwash sex is not assigned. That is not according to me so you are being dishonest.

Yes, but to what purpose

again make note of official record why do you ask twice? Do you think the answer is going to change?

You know it's a valid argument when the person you're arguing with descends into verbal "absolute dumbest thing" abuse in lieu of a counter argument

if you insist that your birth certificate can retroactively determine what sex you are, and you think that is a valid argument. then I guess there's nothing to talk about you are too far out of what could be considered a rational to even have this discussion.

Your sex is determined in the womb months before the birth certificate even exist

And how is "biology" so served ?

what?

 

[CLAX1911]

Understanding Passive-Aggressive Behavior

5 Signs That You're Dealing With a Passive-Aggressive Person | Psychology Today

if you can't explain it in your own words you don't understand it.

I don't read links.

Ah straight from the "if you want to vote Democrat, why don't you go live in Venezuela", school of argument

I dunno, maybe the beer ?

so am I to understand by this statement that Democrats want to destroy the country by destroying the Constitution?

I'll reiterate: I don't see the difference between not accepting someone's existence or presence and being intolerant towards them

I will reiterate my response it is because you are pigheaded.

People who lack a good argument, descend into, "that's because you're pigheaded" abuse.

people who are pigheaded cry about that observation being made and pretend it's abuse.

When I said there was no good, non-religious, argument against same sex marriage (which there isn't) there was similar vitriol from those without such a good argument.

Your opinion on what a good argument is or isn't still doesn't matter. to think that you're the arbiter of what is a good argument or not is to be narcissistic.

It's not vitriol if it's apt. Maybe you need to open your mind a little bit. no it can't possibly be that you're absolutely perfect in every way and anyone who disagrees with you is just wrong.

That's not pigheaded in the slightest.

 

[Mashmont]

Austin school district trustees early Tuesday unanimously approved a new sex education curriculum that, for the first time, will teach elementary students lessons on sexual orientation, gender identity and sexually transmitted diseases.

For more than a year, district administrators, parents, community members and advocacy groups grappled with what to teach elementary and middle school students. The Human Sexuality and Responsibility curriculum has not been changed in a decade for elementary students and in seven years for middle school students. Under the new curriculum, educators will also teach lessons on healthy relationships, puberty, pregnancy and reproduction.

“There’s no doubt that the topic of sex education in public schools elicits strong reactions,” board member Kristin Ashy said to a room filled with people after listening to over three hours of public comment Monday night. “Tonight offers itself as an example of these reactions.”

snip...

Austin school district approves revised sex ed curriculum - News - Austin American-Statesman - Austin, TX



Wonder if there will be a class on "How to avoid being sexualized as a child"? Another case of how the desires of a few outweigh the concerns of the many.

Marxist atheist garbage.

 

[Mashmont]

OMG! They're teaching kids that gay people exist too? And that not everyone is heterosexual? And how everyone can be safe during sex, regardless of sexual orientation?

Grab the pitchforks boys! We gotta put a stop to this! :2mad:

But they won't teach them anything about sexual morality. Aka the stuff that works.

 

[WCH]

This is why I said you lack the capacity I feel ashamed of this.

It's not because your bigoted per se it's because you refuse to allow yourself to empathize.

This strikes me more of a defense mechanism then we'll rationed position.

It's a lot easier to define it as a mental disorder or to say the people are blatantly being sinful then it is to try and understand than it is to try and understand them.

And it's attitudes like this that cause it to be something we talked about in schools with children. Because people don't want to emphasise they want to defend themselves and not have to examine their beliefs. That's difficult. People avoid difficult things.

People are tired of seeing people suffering because of this and your approaches there's nothing wrong they just need to quit being whatever. Or go get treatment that makes them quit being whatever.

You have said you do not care about this you do not care about these people they're just mentally disordered or blatantly sinful. You can't then scold people who are trying to deal with what you shirked.

Same has been said about rapist, pedophiles, etc. "If we only understood what is going on with them"

Sorry but I'm not going to be accepting of such. I'm damn sure not going to support it being normalized and popularized in our children's education.

 

[Rich2018]

Marxist atheist garbage.

Would Keynesian Atheism be more acceptable to you ?

 

[Rich2018]

...you can identify as a purple headed hippopotamus from outer space I don't care. That doesn't make this a gender....

What if you don't like your assigned name at birth, do you support the right to change it ?

That's basically the same thing - you would pigeon hole people based on nothing more than biology. Transgender people are all too aware what nature put between their legs.
Why are you so rigid on the subject, if someone wants to identify as a woman, why does it upset your world view so much ?

...so you don't have anything to support the existence of a third gender?

People's personal identity - why is that not enough for you ?

...like you you and sister leprechaun genders exist. Congratulations on being the equivalent of a 16th century illiterate Christian way to show that intellectual integrity.

What ?
That Christianity was right and any deviation (like transgender today) was burned alive ?
That world view has little to recommend it

...and you believe hundreds of millions of different genders exist despite the fact that you can't quantify them...

Please specify a few of the "hundreds of millions" of genders you claim others belive to exist.

Male and female I'll give you, now back up your positive claim.

...I would consider flat Earth and non binary genders as equal in absurdity so yes to that no to evolution....

We agree on flat Earth (thankfully)
Gender is whatever the person says it is not you or me - hence the need to remove it from documents like birth certificates as serving no useful purpose

Are you denying that evolution - biological change over millions of years - isn't a fact ?

Evolution is a fact (or as close to a fact as we can get). The theory of evolution tries to explain how it works, not if it exists

Do you really think man originated in his current form ?

...he wasn't just insisting on it without evidence.

You are insisting on this gender nonsense without evidence.

The evidence is what people say they feel about themselves and their own bodies.

...so who's the non-binary gender equivalent of Galileo what evidence does this supposed person have?

Are you suggesting that Galileo was transgender ?

Because your simple black and white view makes no sense

...this is denial of science it is not my belief that there are males and females and they are born that way that is absolute undeniable fact....

So you discount the consciousness of people - and focus purely on biology ?

...proof circumstances of birth....

What does that even mean ?
I'll ask again: What purpose does noting the apparent sex/gender of a baby serve? How would your world change if official documentation didn't recognize sex/gender.?

If the Birth Certificate proves you were born but takes no note of sex/gender then so what ?

...absolute hogwash sex is not assigned....

It is assigned on your Birth Certificate based largely on the sex organs visible between your legs. According to you it's important make that distinction, the question is why ?

...if you insist that your birth certificate can retroactively determine what sex you are...

It should not be used for this purpose IMO

...your sex is determined in the womb months before the birth certificate even exist...

IMO, it should be determined by your own mind but we agree the Birth Certificate should not play any part in noting it

...what?

A question as to what you meant by a simple word "biology"

How is "biology" served by noting sex/gender on official government documentation ?

 

[CLAX1911]

Same has been said about rapist, pedophiles, etc. "If we only understood what is going on with them"

that's a profoundly moronic statement coming from you I'd expect better from you.

Rapists have victims.

Sorry but I'm not going to be accepting of such. I'm damn sure not going to support it being normalized and popularized in our children's education.

And that's why this is happening. And you are powerless to stop it.

 

[CLAX1911]

What if you don't like your assigned name at birth, do you support the right to change it ?

That's basically the same thing - you would pigeon hole people based on nothing more than biology. Transgender people are all too aware what nature put between their legs.
Why are you so rigid on the subject, if someone wants to identify as a woman, why does it upset your world view so much ?




People's personal identity - why is that not enough for you ?




What ?
That Christianity was right and any deviation (like transgender today) was burned alive ?
That world view has little to recommend it




Please specify a few of the "hundreds of millions" of genders you claim others belive to exist.

Male and female I'll give you, now back up your positive claim.




We agree on flat Earth (thankfully)
Gender is whatever the person says it is not you or me - hence the need to remove it from documents like birth certificates as serving no useful purpose

Are you denying that evolution - biological change over millions of years - isn't a fact ?

Evolution is a fact (or as close to a fact as we can get). The theory of evolution tries to explain how it works, not if it exists

Do you really think man originated in his current form ?




The evidence is what people say they feel about themselves and their own bodies.




Are you suggesting that Galileo was transgender ?

Because your simple black and white view makes no sense




So you discount the consciousness of people - and focus purely on biology ?




What does that even mean ?
I'll ask again: What purpose does noting the apparent sex/gender of a baby serve? How would your world change if official documentation didn't recognize sex/gender.?

If the Birth Certificate proves you were born but takes no note of sex/gender then so what ?




It is assigned on your Birth Certificate based largely on the sex organs visible between your legs. According to you it's important make that distinction, the question is why ?




It should not be used for this purpose IMO




IMO, it should be determined by your own mind but we agree the Birth Certificate should not play any part in noting it




A question as to what you meant by a simple word "biology"

How is "biology" served by noting sex/gender on official government documentation ?

Sex is decided long before birth you can insist otherwise but you will never be correct.

 

[WCH]

that's a profoundly moronic statement coming from you I'd expect better from you.

Rapists have victims.

And that's why this is happening. And you are powerless to stop it.

Pedophiles don't? Don't think it doesn't happen with Gay predators.

 

[CLAX1911]

Pedophiles don't? Don't think it doesn't happen with Gay predators.

So you're against acceptance of homosexuality because there's homosexual predators but you're not against heterosexuality despite the fact that they make up the vast majority of predators.

Your rationale is broken.