"assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles [W:598]

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

its stupid. sorry. You've been here more than a year: do you read the other posts?

AR 15s are issued by most major police departments-some are issuing surplus military M4s or M16s. The AR 15 is the single most versatile self defense weapon a homeowner or shop keeper can own. Claiming they are designed to kill mass numbers of people is so stupid as to render your opinion on any firearms subject worthless. If that was even remotely true, why are civilian police using them? Belt fed machine guns come closer to that claim. Many of the top civilian firearms instructors consider the AR 15 ideal for varied problems a home owner or shop keeper might encounter. These instructors have years of experience-the place I train is run by a guy who was first an MP in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive (among other things) and then director of the County Swat team (smaller villages and cities created a swat team by having each department dedicate an officer to it, and this man was head of it). Another instructor who supports AR 15s for civilian defense is this fellow

https://www.bravocompanymfg.com/gunfighters/frank_proctor.php

I own one of the rifles he designed for Windham Weaponry (the original Bushmaster Factory)

one of the best I own

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/fir...ber-rifle/way-of-the-gun-performance-carbine/

Why was the M-16 designed? Why was the m4 designed? My point is that if original intent was "FOR WAR" maybe it should stay there? Did the designers of those guns say, let's go out and make the best hunting rifle ever? No they are to take the stress out of operating them in very confused situations. Are they good for home defense, yes. So if mace and your fists if you got the brass. What I am saying is that there are alternatives that were not designed SPECIFICALLY with the battlefield in mind.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

I think this goes far deeper than any easy talking points. My take is the round and the original purpose of the weapon design. The cavitation cause by a high velocity 556 is entirely different than say a 357 mag.

To which .224 caliber bullet do you refer? I've got seven different types sitting on my reloading bench, and the milspec 55 gr FMJ that's the most common AR-15 bullet is the least lethal of them, and of the 12 different types of rifle bullets on the bench, it's the least lethal. The terminal ballistics caused by a 168 grain .30 caliber hunting bullet at 3320 FPS will and has drop an elk in its tracks; the AR-15 round that you refer too would just scare them.

Obviously bolt action rifles are great for hunting, and brush guns, but semi auto, high capacity have a different purpose.

Common legal uses for AR-15s and similar firearms:

1. Long distance shooting. Service Rifle - Civilian Marksmanship ProgramCivilian Marksmanship Program

2. Competition - News | 3 Gun Nation

3. Practice – for long distance or competition

4. Plinking/recreational shooting – cheapest centerfire ammo, low recoil, adaptable frame.

5. Varmint hunting - Rock River Arms: LAR-15 Varmint A4

6. Big game hunting, in the proper caliber and legal magazine. - Finally, 4 AR-Style Rifles Chambered for Big Game Hunting | Field & Stream

7. Self-defense. - Ultimate .300 Blackout Ammo Test - Shooting Times

A person cannot walk into a school and dump rounds from a handgun, tube shot gun, or bolt action like they can with "being generic" and AR.

See "Virginia Tech shooting".

I hunt and I know hunting doesn't happen much in Texas. Going on a lease where you get drunk in a stand and wait for deer to get to the salt lick is not hunting. The 556 is so tiny that it is basically worthless if it hits a twig. Take a brush gun. Handguns are perfect for home defense. So are shot guns. All these baby military rifles are toys. That's all. Yes they are modular, yes this and that, but in reality, it is a toy. I think there can be a common sense approach that allows needs to be covered, but limits the war machines. I feel if you want guns designed specifically to kill as many people as possible, sign up.

The AR family is available in over 100 calibers, most of which are legal for hunting big game. The smaller calibers, including the 5.56mm, are suitable for hunting small game, predators and varmints. No rifle was designed to as many people as possible, which is why we allow the police to carry AR-15s. Besides, been there, done that, got the brown t-shirt and the combat patch.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Why was the M-16 designed? Why was the m4 designed? My point is that if original intent was "FOR WAR" maybe it should stay there? Did the designers of those guns say, let's go out and make the best hunting rifle ever? No they are to take the stress out of operating them in very confused situations. Are they good for home defense, yes. So if mace and your fists if you got the brass. What I am saying is that there are alternatives that were not designed SPECIFICALLY with the battlefield in mind.

One, what does designed for the battlefield have to do with anything? Are you familiar with US v Miller? Second, both of the weapons you referenced are selective fire. The AR-15 is not.

Last question: how many people have been murdered in a mass shooting where the shooter used an "assault weapon" in the last twenty years, and how many were murdered with water over that same time period?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Why was the M-16 designed? Why was the m4 designed? My point is that if original intent was "FOR WAR" maybe it should stay there? Did the designers of those guns say, let's go out and make the best hunting rifle ever? No they are to take the stress out of operating them in very confused situations. Are they good for home defense, yes. So if mace and your fists if you got the brass. What I am saying is that there are alternatives that were not designed SPECIFICALLY with the battlefield in mind.

what were most guns designed for?

lets see-the most popular bolt action hunting rifles in the USA are based on military designs-especially the main German Battle rifle of over 50 years the Mauser 98. What is the most popular centerfire target pistol in the USA-either for the formal National Matches at Camp Perry or for the USPSA open limited and "single stack" divisions? the Colt 1911 and its many copies and variations.

the semi auto AR 15 was never designed for the military

you use mace and fists against someone with training who has a knife or a gun you will be DOA in a matter of seconds. Fists work great if you are a young tough male. Maybe ok if you're a former professional fighter or MMA even until age 40. Now I was young and tough once, boxed and had a blackbelt. now I am 59 with shoulder, elbow and knee surgeries. I have no illusion I'd be able to win a fist fight against a 25 year old who apprenticed in thuggery in the state prison. However, with an AR 15 or a police shotgun, I am pretty confident I'll win against most adversaries because I have over half a million rounds of experience

 

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

To which .224 caliber bullet do you refer? I've got seven different types sitting on my reloading bench, and the milspec 55 gr FMJ that's the most common AR-15 bullet is the least lethal of them, and of the 12 different types of rifle bullets on the bench, it's the least lethal. The terminal ballistics caused by a 168 grain .30 caliber hunting bullet at 3320 FPS will and has drop an elk in its tracks; the AR-15 round that you refer too would just scare them.


Common legal uses for AR-15s and similar firearms:

1. Long distance shooting. Service Rifle - Civilian Marksmanship ProgramCivilian Marksmanship Program

2. Competition - News | 3 Gun Nation

3. Practice – for long distance or competition

4. Plinking/recreational shooting – cheapest centerfire ammo, low recoil, adaptable frame.

5. Varmint hunting - Rock River Arms: LAR-15 Varmint A4

6. Big game hunting, in the proper caliber and legal magazine. - Finally, 4 AR-Style Rifles Chambered for Big Game Hunting | Field & Stream

7. Self-defense. - Ultimate .300 Blackout Ammo Test - Shooting Times



See "Virginia Tech shooting".


The AR family is available in over 100 calibers, most of which are legal for hunting big game. The smaller calibers, including the 5.56mm, are suitable for hunting small game, predators and varmints. No rifle was designed to as many people as possible, which is why we allow the police to carry AR-15s. Besides, been there, done that, got the brown t-shirt and the combat patch.

correct there are options. I know that. You know that, but when kids keep getting shot with a 1000 dollar gun, one model in particular, the base models. Why fight that? There are reasons those people use the 556 AR. will it stop it all, no, but we are the only country who has this problem. You must not have kids you care about returning from school.

 

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

One, what does designed for the battlefield have to do with anything? Are you familiar with US v Miller? Second, both of the weapons you referenced are selective fire. The AR-15 is not.

Last question: how many people have been murdered in a mass shooting where the shooter used an "assault weapon" in the last twenty years, and how many were murdered with water over that same time period?

Yeah. Sawed off shot gun. Second is the only real difference. Scrub your sear or add a bumpstock and that's pretty much all you need. So what just let it keep happening? It is weekly now. Why is your right to own toys higher than the right for kids not to get shot in the face. I answered all your questions and asked one. Please don't deflect. Take me to task.

 

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

what were most guns designed for?

lets see-the most popular bolt action hunting rifles in the USA are based on military designs-especially the main German Battle rifle of over 50 years the Mauser 98. What is the most popular centerfire target pistol in the USA-either for the formal National Matches at Camp Perry or for the USPSA open limited and "single stack" divisions? the Colt 1911 and its many copies and variations.

the semi auto AR 15 was never designed for the military

you use mace and fists against someone with training who has a knife or a gun you will be DOA in a matter of seconds. Fists work great if you are a young tough male. Maybe ok if you're a former professional fighter or MMA even until age 40. Now I was young and tough once, boxed and had a blackbelt. now I am 59 with shoulder, elbow and knee surgeries. I have no illusion I'd be able to win a fist fight against a 25 year old who apprenticed in thuggery in the state prison. However, with an AR 15 or a police shotgun, I am pretty confident I'll win against most adversaries because I have over half a million rounds of experience

Life is risky. Is it better for a grown man to take the risk or kids going to school?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Yeah. Sawed off shot gun. Second is the only real difference. Scrub your sear or add a bumpstock and that's pretty much all you need. So what just let it keep happening? It is weekly now. Why is your right to own toys higher than the right for kids not to get shot in the face. I answered all your questions and asked one. Please don't deflect. Take me to task.

more abject stupidity

1) honest people owning guns in no way interferes with ANYONE'S RIGHTS

2) you seem to think people who own ARs are more likely to harm other than those who own say handguns which of course is idiotic

3) is your right to own a car greater than my right not to be killed by bad or drunk driving-that DOES HAPPEN EVERY DAY AND EVERY WEEK

when someone tries to compare lawful ownership of a gun-and calls it a "toy" with the right of people to live (which is protected by the most serious sentences our courts can dish out) I know I am dealing with a hard core gun restrictionist. Its one of those comparisons that are so idiotic no real gun rights supporter would spew it

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Life is risky. Is it better for a grown man to take the risk or kids going to school?

stupid choice yet again. You really are proving you have no concept of this issue.

 

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

stupid choice yet again. You really are proving you have no concept of this issue.

No I'm more like the founders. Take matters into your own hands. When those are weak, die. Darwin. But there is no way I would say ever, I want a toy more than kids not getting shot in the face. Grab you colostomy bag and hope you raised sons who care enough to care for you.

 

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

more abject stupidity

1) honest people owning guns in no way interferes with ANYONE'S RIGHTS

2) you seem to think people who own ARs are more likely to harm other than those who own say handguns which of course is idiotic

3) is your right to own a car greater than my right not to be killed by bad or drunk driving-that DOES HAPPEN EVERY DAY AND EVERY WEEK

when someone tries to compare lawful ownership of a gun-and calls it a "toy" with the right of people to live (which is protected by the most serious sentences our courts can dish out) I know I am dealing with a hard core gun restrictionist. Its one of those comparisons that are so idiotic no real gun rights supporter would spew it

Nik Cruz was an honest gun owner.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Nik Cruz was an honest gun owner.

LOL, and Ted Bundy was a women's rights activist

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

No I'm more like the founders. Take matters into your own hands. When those are weak, die. Darwin. But there is no way I would say ever, I want a toy more than kids not getting shot in the face. Grab you colostomy bag and hope you raised sons who care enough to care for you.

Your posts are going from just stupid to inane. You can give up the guns you pretend to own if you think that will stop kids from being shot in the face. You can never have another drink and then pat yourself on your back and pretend you stopped someone dying from drunk driving. You can castrate yourself because hey-girls have a right to be virgins more than you have a right to have a penis.

 

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

LOL, and Ted Bundy was a women's rights activist

Cruz legally bought and owned every one of the nine rifles he had.

 

[Bark]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Your posts are going from just stupid to inane. You can give up the guns you pretend to own if you think that will stop kids from being shot in the face. You can never have another drink and then pat yourself on your back and pretend you stopped someone dying from drunk driving. You can castrate yourself because hey-girls have a right to be virgins more than you have a right to have a penis.

I'd fight you. Anywhere. I have no fear. But I can also speak. I do have a good grip of weapons, but I like my hands more. People are so terrified today that a gun is the end all save all. I will answer for using my hands, but if my disturbed teen son shot a bunch of kids in the face I would not be ok.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Cruz legally bought and owned every one of the nine rifles he had.

and the minute he decided to use one for an illegal purpose he was in violation of the law by possessing it

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

I'd fight you. Anywhere. I have no fear. But I can also speak. I do have a good grip of weapons, but I like my hands more. People are so terrified today that a gun is the end all save all. I will answer for using my hands, but if my disturbed teen son shot a bunch of kids in the face I would not be ok.

challenging people to fights is really stupid. And using your hands against someone armed with a knife means you will lose 99% of the times-and 100% of the time if the person has any training. If they have a gun, you merely die faster and probably with less mess. Hands are great-my late father was Navy Middleweight champion and I still have a heavy bag and speed bag he gave me 40 years ago. Still have a black belt lying around some where-thats about the same age. Now, I carry a knife 24-7 and a gun here and there. shoulder knee and elbow surgeries-just don't have the snap in the roundhouse kick or the right cross anymore.

 

[NonoBadDog]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

I'd fight you. Anywhere. I have no fear. But I can also speak. I do have a good grip of weapons, but I like my hands more. People are so terrified today that a gun is the end all save all. I will answer for using my hands, but if my disturbed teen son shot a bunch of kids in the face I would not be ok.

You sound real scary. You don't have any guns do you? Army for 28 years. Lots of cop friends. Lots of martial arts friends. Even had some friends in BATF. Been deployed. Have Spec Ops friends. Supported Spec Ops in air assault missions. I haven't heard any of them, not one, say anything like what you just posted. They would laugh at that crap you posted and steer real far out of your path. Bruce Lee carried a .357.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Yeah. Sawed off shot gun. Second is the only real difference. Scrub your sear or add a bumpstock and that's pretty much all you need. So what just let it keep happening? It is weekly now. Why is your right to own toys higher than the right for kids not to get shot in the face. I answered all your questions and asked one. Please don't deflect. Take me to task.

All kinds of firearms are used in school shootings. By your logic, I should have no right to own any of them as long as someone else is using them them to kill someone. The fact that someone is criminally using a firearm has no bearing on whether I have a Constitutionally protected right to own one.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Life is risky. Is it better for a grown man to take the risk or kids going to school?

School kids are about 800 times more likely to die in a car wreck, 250 times more likely to do being hit by a car while walking outside or 80 times more likely to be hit while riding their bike than to be killed by someone using an "assault weapon" while at school. Do you put your kids in the car or let them walk on the sidewalk?

 

[Goshin]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Nik Cruz was an honest gun owner.

39 incidents leading up to his final act of violence, in which police and authorities had plenty of warning there was a problem and did nothing, suggest otherwise.

 

[Goshin]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

All kinds of firearms are used in school shootings. By your logic, I should have no right to own any of them as long as someone else is using them them to kill someone. The fact that someone is criminally using a firearm has no bearing on whether I have a Constitutionally protected right to own one.

Exactly. The single most common firearm used to murder is the handgun.

VA Tech... 2 handguns, 10-15 round mags legal in almost any state, 32 dead... ~twice as many as Florida.

You could ban all "assault rifles" tomorrow and they'd still be in circulation for a hundred years on the black market.

Charlie Hebdo.... those were illegal-in-france full auto rifles, yet they had them.


Thinking any gun control will STOP school shootings, or even substantially mitigate them, is a fantasy solution.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

Moderator's Warning:

Folks, lets stick to the topic and not each other. If you can't debate things without getting personal, or without posts that are just there to enflame, then I'd suggest you step back out of the thread

 

[Celebrity]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

What the **** is "common sense gun laws"?


Taking away assault weapons which are used in less than 1% of all shootings is anything but common sense, it's ****ing stupid.

What proportion of shooting deaths are those assault weapons responsible for in mass shootings?

Black Codes during Jim Crow were supported by a majority of America. Does that make it ok?

America changed, and thus America's gun laws changed. Soon white people will be a minority. But that is beside the point.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: "assault weapon" vs Semi auto rifles

What proportion of shooting deaths are those assault weapons responsible for in mass shootings?



America changed, and thus America's gun laws changed. Soon white people will be a minority. But that is beside the point.

mass shootings kill far less people in a year than gang violence in four big cities does in a month-- do gun banners fixate on mass shootings because those are less likely to be perpetrated by a minority in a Democrat run city?