Are we so weak and inept diplomatically that Turkey forced the hand of the United States of America?

[Tangmo]

Gen. Mattis grew up in Washington state while Sen. Henry M. Jackson served several terms in Washington. Many people who know Mattis from the time say he became a Democrat in the fashion of Sen. Jackson. During my own formative years on the east coast Sen. Jackson caught my attention as being a domestic liberal and a foreign policy hawk. The late Sen. Jackson was the kind of Democrat a good number of us seemed to adopt as a model and example. Indeed, as the world continues to change there are values that do endure.

The last straw for Mattis was a phone call on 14 December [2018] between Trump and the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, in which the president upended US policy.

Instead of warning Erdoğan off a threatened offensive into Syria aimed at Kurdish forces, Washington’s closest allies against Isis, Trump was persuaded in a matter of seconds to abandon Syria and leave the Kurds to their fate. Unable to change Trump’s mind, Mattis handed in his resignation on Thursday, with a letter he clearly spent some time composing, citing respect for allies as the critical difference.

“Mattis clearly felt he had reached the end of the road,” said Evelyn Farkas, a former deputy assistant secretary of defence now at the German Marshall Fund. “Trump has no real clear objective but has a destructive America First perspective on the world, which will become more manifest now there aren’t people around him willing and able to stand up to him.”

Chaos at home, fear abroad: Trump unleashed puts western world on edge | US news | The Guardian

 

[Thoreau72]

Not only has Trump lied about the Syrian Kurds, but he is also spewing Putin and Erdogan propaganda.....

Fact check: Trump parrots talking points from Putin, Erdogan on Syria

Trump in many ways reminds me of those old Soviet Politburo members who continued telling lies even though everyone in Russia knew they were lying and they also knew everyone knew they were lying.

Men in office lie all the time. Everybody knows politicians lie.

The adult moves along and considers that fact to be a learning experience. What about you?

 

[cpwill]

The last Administration did, under their PR front organization known as the Syrian Democratic Forces.

No, SDF =\= PKK. All Kurds after not the same, though there is likely plenty of sympathy and overlap.

this was against the advice of many individuals, including the Army Special Forces Commander, the Secretary of Defense, and the Director of National Intelligence.

:shrug: SOCOM, CIA, and other relevant stakeholders were certainly in favor of partnering with the SDF; as I recall, opposition collapsed about the same time as the program to work via the FSA did, and largely for that reason.

This support ended this month, at the same time the withdrawal of US forces was announced. To me this is support that should never have been given.

:shrug: well then you would have failed.

 

[bomberfox]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ses-very-troubling-theory-about-trump-turkey/



Its known the president got rolled by Turkey and completely bungled the situation. However, this makes me wonder if this is the way out for the GOP where they can protect their brand yet consider voting for removing Trump from office for reasons their base can accept.

My hope is Pelosi is smart and includes the facts about Turkey in the articles of impeachment.

At this point i dont care if they are protecting their brand as long as they remove him We all suffered enough.

 

[bomberfox]

So basically der trumpengroper pulls us out and leaves a key ally vulnerable, causing the release of ISIS fighters to essentially recoup and reorganize because of Turkey’s needless invasion. He then moves the troops to Iraq uninvited, angering the Iraqi government to essentially put the burden of what our allies were doing on our troops (monitoring Iran while they go wft? and search for ISIS...
Iraq: American troops leaving Syria cannot stay in Iraq - ABC News

Great abandon the kurds to spend more needless time in Iraq!

 

[Oozlefinch]

No, SDF =\= PKK. All Kurds after not the same, though there is likely plenty of sympathy and overlap.

:shrug: SOCOM, CIA, and other relevant stakeholders were certainly in favor of partnering with the SDF; as I recall, opposition collapsed about the same time as the program to work via the FSA did, and largely for that reason.

One of America’s most senior generals said on Friday he instructed the Kurdish YPG militia to change its “brand” a day or so before it unveiled an alliance with Syrian Arabs in 2015 under the name Syrian Democratic Forces.

The recounting by U.S. Army General Raymond Thomas, the head of Special Operations Command, offered a glimpse into the mechanics that preceded a major rampup in U.S. support to the Kurdish fighters despite fierce opposition from NATO ally Turkey.

Turkey views the YPG as an extension of PKK militants waging an insurgency on Turkish soil, and has sharply criticized U.S. support to the group, which has increased over time.

U.S. general told Syria's YPG: 'You have got to change your brand' - Reuters

The US recognizes both the PKK and YPG as terrorist organizations. The CIA recognizes the YPG as the "PKKs military force in Syria".

 

[Rogue Valley]

Not at all. Those are the hard facts that people in the foreign policy and security sphere's are having to deal with right now. Trashing the U.S. security guarantee does make us less safe. Convincing partners not to work with us does make us less safe. Releasing thousands of ISIS members does make us less safe. Having a POTUS so inept that he gets rolled in a phone call by a tin-pot dictator from Turkey and accidentally ****s over months of negotiation and a steady-state that met our interests' and Turkey's, forcing his administration to scramble madly just to get back to point zero and stop the losses, is also really embarrassing, and also makes us less safe.

Hey, stop popping their Trumpian bubble. The stable genius never makes a mistake! Remember, he knows more about war and security issues than his generals.