Are Electors still relevant?

[jamesbyoung]

How about my devastating response in post #174 ?

Yep, you were devastated.

 

[Rich2018]

But when they came together to become a country the states made sure they would still be governed by the state government. Everything was and is still fine except for the people like you who cannot accept defeat and want to change what made this country great. Sorry but I do not want mob rule or a king. I want a constitution to protect the rights of the individual and the minority from mob rule. I want a senate to protect the majority of states from mob rule by a few states that think they should tell everyone how to live. I like the fact that all the states take part in the election along with the majority. Sorry if a lot of us do not want to be bullied by the mob majority.

The states in Mexico and Germany are governed by their state governments

That's what a federal form of government means


The form of government made the USA "great" - I think you need to wash you MAGA hat again
LOL


Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy - the Queen is head of state
What examples, have you seen, caused by the problems in the way Canada is governed ?
Why examples, can you cite, of "mob rule" in Canada ?

Would you call recent riots in the USA examples of "mob rule", can you explain why there were no such riots in Canada ?

What protects minorities in Canada - which has no written constitution ?

Can you give any examples of the US Senate "protecting the majority of states from mob rule" ?


In the USA, a minority can beat a majority - THAT is mob rule:

The Nazis were a minority
The Russian Bolsheviks were a minority
The Taliban is a minority
The Japanese Imperialists were a minority
The communists in Chine were a minority.

 

[Rich2018]

Yep, you were devastated.

Devastated by my own response ?

How does that even begin to make sense ?

 

[Rich2018]

Rich, I think you do make good points. The National Vote Interstate Compact could very well get enacted if they get 270 guarantee votes. I just think we need to think about removing safeguards.

What is the worst thing that can happen ?

 

[Jay59]

How about my devastating response in post #174 ?

You make a strong case. He wins 5-2.

 

[Rich2018]

You make a strong case. He wins 5-2.

But my TKO ?

 

[Jay59]

But my TKO ?

You only took a standing 8-count. You can go another round is you really want to.

You'll need a knock out, because he's way ahead on points.

 

[Rich2018]

You only took a standing 8-count. You can go another round is you really want to.

You'll need a knock out, because he's way ahead on points.

I may have (though undeserved) the TKO I inflicted was anything but a fluke?:

 

[Jay59]

I may have (though undeserved) the TKO I inflicted was anything but a fluke?:

You must still be dazed.

He was the one that landed the big shot. You were the one almost down for the count. He's been thumping you pretty hard so far. It might be time to throw in the towel.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

The states in Mexico and Germany are governed by their state governments

That's what a federal form of government means


The form of government made the USA "great" - I think you need to wash you MAGA hat again
LOL


Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy - the Queen is head of state
What examples, have you seen, caused by the problems in the way Canada is governed ?
Why examples, can you cite, of "mob rule" in Canada ?

Would you call recent riots in the USA examples of "mob rule", can you explain why there were no such riots in Canada ?

What protects minorities in Canada - which has no written constitution ?

Can you give any examples of the US Senate "protecting the majority of states from mob rule" ?


In the USA, a minority can beat a majority - THAT is mob rule:

The Nazis were a minority
The Russian Bolsheviks were a minority
The Taliban is a minority
The Japanese Imperialists were a minority
The communists in Chine were a minority.

I like our government the way it is. I think the federal government needs to downsize. To many government workers and too much waste. Sorry but I do not want majority, mob rule, or a democracy. I like the senate and the fact that small states have a voice. I like the fact that the minorities rights are not easily voted away by the majority. Senate has stopped mob rule in this latest coup which was orchestrated the minute the left lost the election.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Devastated by my own response ?

How does that even begin to make sense ?

Your arguments do not make sense is the point.

 

[Rich2018]

You must still be dazed.

He was the one that landed the big shot. You were the one almost down for the count. He's been thumping you pretty hard so far. It might be time to throw in the towel.

Home town judge, you have to knock him out to get a draw.

 

[Rich2018]

Your arguments do not make sense is the point.

I think your answers do not make sense. At this point or any other.

 

[Terryj]

I have been doing some homework or refresher on early presidential elections. I discovered/re-learned that the founders were really torn on our presidential election system. Half wanted to go with the direct vote for President aka national popular vote, while the other half wanted congress to pick the President. Their compromise or 11th hour decision was electors. The belief here was that the average Joe were uneducated/uninformed on the issues, needed political experts to vote on their behalf, and feared they would pick a tyrant. Electors were the middle-ground people. They were not members of the U.S Senator or Congress. They were local political figures and had a broad understanding of the world around them.

Fast forward to 2020. We live in an age of the internet, social media, television, radio, and wide range of transportation options. Most of the population has some sort of post High School education. On one hand, we're all more educated than we were in the late 18th century, but at the same time, very few people actually watch the news on a regular basis. We have people to live in their own bubble and vote by party line. You watch Fox News, you get the impression that Trump is a victim and the Democrats are evil. You watch CNN or MSNBC, you get the impression that Democrats are heroes and Trump is a clown dressed in a suit.

Does the concept of electors really matter anymore? Originally they were suppose to be free thinking and provide a check on the American people. In the 20th century, we literally had only 7 faithless electors total. So far this century, we have had 8 total. The 2016 election brought forth 6 of the 8. I am just curious if we still need political experts to vote on our behalf.

What really screwed up the EC was when the States decided to go with "winner-take-all".

 

[Rich2018]

I like our government the way it is.

So no problems in structure at all ?

I think the federal government needs to downsize.[/quote

So you don't like the government as it is ?

To many government workers and too much waste.

Which government employees to you wish to see laid off ?

Do you actually have any idea ?

Sorry but I do not want majority, mob rule, or a democracy.

So you prefer minority mob rule with a minority of voters dictating to the majority ?
Would you be in favor of the Nazis climb to power ? That was minority mob rule wasn't it ?
Too bad about democracy, you already have it and have done since 1787

I like the senate and the fact that small states have a voice. I like the fact that the minorities rights are not easily voted away by the majority.

So you like the fact that people in smaller populated states have a greater representation in Congress ?

Senate has stopped mob rule in this latest coup which was orchestrated the minute the left lost the election.

The impeachment of Trump was not a "coup" - the Constitution was followed to the letter
And the reason Trump wasn't convicted/removed was because there wasn't 67 Democrats in the Senate

Do you feel the impeachment of Clinton was a Republican "coup" ?

 

[jamesbyoung]

I think your answers do not make sense. At this point or any other.

Of course scrambled thinking like yours confuses you.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

So you like the fact that people in smaller populated states have a greater representation in Congress ?

Wrong the smaller less populated states are represented in the senate. In the congress we have majority representation. In the Senate all states have equal say in the government. The majority are represented in congress. Just like our forefathers and the states agreed upon when the country was established. None of the smaller states would have joined without equal say in the Federal government. Nobody wants to be bossed around by a mob. Individuals as well as the minority want their say and rights the way it should be.

 

[Rich2018]

Of course scrambled thinking like yours confuses you.

Or scrambled thinking like your confuses you.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

So you don't like the government as it is ?

I think amendments are needed but I think our government has been well thought out to protect the rights of the people and to govern.

So no problems in structure at all ?

Our government needs to get back to governing not building roads or teaching our children. We don't need all these government workers. This should all be done by the private sector. The government "We the People" can pay for it though taxation and determine what is needed. But no all these government workers need to be working in the private sector. The private sector should be building our roads, delivering the mail, teaching our children the way we want it done. Just like a contractor I hire does what I want done so should our government hire the private sector to provide the services and infrastructure we need.

 

[Rich2018]

Wrong the smaller less populated states are represented in the senate.

Wrong the larger more populated states are ALSO represented in the Senate

In the congress we have majority representation.

I think you mean in the House of Representatives and their is an imbalance as to how many representatives each state proportionately gets


But we were talking about presidential election specifically....why should a minority elect a president when the majority voted for someone else

The minority winning ?
That is pure mob rule

Nobody wants to be bossed around by a mob...

Yet that was exactly what happened in 2016 - the majority were bossed by a mob (minority)

Why should the majority accept mob rule ?

Individuals as well as the minority want their say and rights the way it should be.

But when the minority not only get their say, but also get their way, we have mob rule.

 

[Rich2018]

I think amendments are needed but I think our government has been well thought out to protect the rights of the people and to govern.

Then why the need for amendments, why have we needed 27 if it was so well "thought out"

The Constitution should have had a "sell by" date in it

It needs a total re-write
Eve people like Thomas Jefferson said it was only every a temporary document

Our government needs to get back to governing not building roads or teaching our children. We don't need all these government workers. This should all be done by the private sector. "The government We the People" can pay for it though taxation and determine what is needed. But no all these government workers need to be working in the private sector. The private sector should be building our roads, delivering the mail, teaching our children.

Absolutely not

We need public services that aim to provide for the people not with the aim of making a quick buck.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Which government employees to you wish to see laid off ? Do you actually have any idea ?

There would be no need to lay off anyone. They should be working in the private sector for our government.

 

[Samwise]

But we were talking about presidential election specifically....why should a minority elect a president when the majority voted for someone else

For the same reason that Vermont and California each get two votes in the Senate.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

But we were talking about presidential election specifically....why should a minority elect a president when the majority voted for someone else

The minority winning ?
That is pure mob rule
Yet that was exactly what happened in 2016 - the majority were bossed by a mob (minority)

Why should the majority accept mob rule ?

No Trump won because he was smarter than Hillary and played by the rules. We will never know the outcome if the rules were different. The only thing we can assume is Trump would have played by the rules that were in place at the time unlike Hillary.

 

[Rich2018]

There would be no need to lay off anyone. They should be working in the private sector for our government.

If the government ceases to employ them, that is called being "laid off"


It seems you would mandate private companies to employ certain works - did I get that right

And can you give me a few examples of the kind of workers you like the government the cease to employ and the companies mandated to taker up their employment ?

No Trump won because he was smarter than Hillary...

Trump smart ???
LOL


Hilary also played by the rules...and Trump won thanks to an undemocratic EC which allows for mob rule.