AntiFa and Freedom of Speech from the Horse's Mouth

[ReverendHellh0und]

What makes ANTIFA not Fascist? perhaps our resident apologists can address this.

 

[haymarket]

Dude, you're wrong. Its ok. Move on.

You need to say that into your own mirror. If you think I am letting you out of that corner you painted yourself into, you are sadly mistaken. Only you can control that.

 

[William Rea]

Dude, you're wrong. Its ok. Move on.

Dud, this what you said...

If they are using violence and intimidation to achieve their ends, they are being fascists because of their methods. Using euphemisms to pretty it up is intellectually bankrupt.

Justify it.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Dud, this what you said...



Justify it.

Already did. Your bias is already known, you have no interest in any discussion that talks about what Antifa is really about.

 

[William Rea]

Already did. Your bias is already known, you have no interest in any discussion that talks about what Antifa is really about.

No, I saw lots of evasion but, I didn't see anything that justified what you said. If their method is 'violence and intimidation' and that is, by your own words, the definition of being fascist then, anyone else that uses 'violence and intimidation' is also, by logical application of the definition being fascist. If we are going to have a discussion it is important that I and others feel confident that you can be rational and fairly analyse what is being said. What I have seen so far suggests that there are many people looking for a 'pile on' for other posters based upon a reputation rather than what is being said and also many people that are just aping their favoured media personalities and throwing words around like confetti hoping that something sticks. I threw you some fish earlier in the thread and you adamantly refused to retract what you said and instead just doubled down on showing us that your prejudices are more important to you then being accurate.

If they are using violence and intimidation to achieve their ends, they are being fascists because of their methods. Using euphemisms to pretty it up is intellectually bankrupt.

You have been called out on what you said, what you do with that is nothing to do with Antifa, it is a point of accuracy. More than anything else, I am now interested in seeing if you can detach yourself from the politics and focus on the inaccuracy of what you said. Can you do it?

 

[William Rea]

What makes ANTIFA not Fascist? perhaps our resident apologists can address this.

Perhaps a resident genius can first come up with some kind of definition of fascism and Fascist first rather than just throwing the term around.

 

[Moot]

What makes ANTIFA not Fascist? perhaps our resident apologists can address this.

They oppose nationalism.

 

[OpportunityCost]

No, I saw lots of evasion but, I didn't see anything that justified what you said. If their method is 'violence and intimidation' and that is, by your own words, the definition of being fascist then, anyone else that uses 'violence and intimidation' is also, by logical application of the definition being fascist. If we are going to have a discussion it is important that I and others feel confident that you can be rational and fairly analyse what is being said. What I have seen so far suggests that there are many people looking for a 'pile on' for other posters based upon a reputation rather than what is being said and also many people that are just aping their favoured media personalities and throwing words around like confetti hoping that something sticks. I threw you some fish earlier in the thread and you adamantly refused to retract what you said and instead just doubled down on showing us that your prejudices are more important to you then being accurate.



You have been called out on what you said, what you do with that is nothing to do with Antifa, it is a point of accuracy. More than anything else, I am now interested in seeing if you can detach yourself from the politics and focus on the inaccuracy of what you said. Can you do it?

Nope. Because they seek to control civil liberties through violent means. A means characterized by mob rule to achieve it. I did post a more detailed description. What would you call a group that seeks to shut down free speech through violence?

Thugs? Bullies?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

They oppose nationalism.

No they don't. they support thier own version of nationalism, statistm, and tyrannical rule.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Perhaps a resident genius can first come up with some kind of definition of fascism and Fascist first rather than just throwing the term around.

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.





Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/26/furor-over-anti-trump-bike-lock-attacker-goes-viral/


Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/10/portland-police-makes-arrests-antifa-violence-patr/

things like:

I guess he's not Alt-right....but he is Alt-racist.

regarding ben shapiro. basically it's the everyone who is not ANTIFA is a nazi, racist. The entire right is demonized as racists, nazis, and white nationalists by ANTIFA.



Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


Many fly soviet union era flags, if that's not a nod to this, then what is?



Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Media is in ANTIFA's pocket with unbalanced reporting.




Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Manifests in the over the top anti-trump, and racism rhetoric. Once in power would easilly engage in this.






I picked out some of these to show you clearly the fascists you support. the tyranny and oppression you stand for is no better than a nazi.

 

[haymarket]

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Sounds a whole lot like every Fourth of July American parade I have ever seen.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

The USA has some of the most lengthy prison sentences in the world as well as a higher than most percentage of prisoners. And we know lots of Republicans were happy defend torture.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Like Trumps targeting of Mexicans as a common foe being rapists and murderers and gang bangers and the need to build a wall to keep them out.




Supremacy of the Military

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Americans of all stripes are proud to have the most powerful military in the world with a lot of spending going to it. Schools put on bake sales to get toilet paper and supplies while the air force never gave a bake sale for a fighter plane.

Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Trump is trying to gain control of the mass media through his constant attacks on the FAKE NEWS and Hollywood. Why regulate them when you can achieve the same thing through an organized campaign of delegitimizing them? That is the Trump way.

Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Fear of our enemies has been the American motivation for government spending on the military for three-quarters of a century now.

 

[William Rea]

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

...snipped for brevity...

Manifests in the over the top anti-trump, and racism rhetoric. Once in power would easilly engage in this.

I picked out some of these to show you clearly the fascists you support. the tyranny and oppression you stand for is no better than a nazi.

Absurdity contorted to confirmation bias but, at least you brought a definition to the table.

Before we go any further are you quoting this article as representing your opinion on the definition?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Absurdity contorted to confirmation bias but, at least you brought a definition to the table.

Before we go any further are you quoting this article as representing your opinion on the definition?

Not at all you support people who killed more people than the nazis.

 

[Bodi]

The only state of disorder we have in this county is Donald Trump.


There is no anarchy at work in this country.

If you think that there is, you have to prove it: bad behavior doesn't count.

Anybody that equates the riots, the blocking of traffic, etc of Antifa or OWL or BLM as bad behaviour and not anarchy? Well... :lol:

 

[OpportunityCost]

Sounds a whole lot like every Fourth of July American parade I have ever seen.








The USA has some of the most lengthy prison sentences in the world as well as a higher than most percentage of prisoners. And we know lots of Republicans were happy defend torture.






Like Trumps targeting of Mexicans as a common foe being rapists and murderers and gang bangers and the need to build a wall to keep them out.




Supremacy of the Military


Americans of all stripes are proud to have the most powerful military in the world with a lot of spending going to it. Schools put on bake sales to get toilet paper and supplies while the air force never gave a bake sale for a fighter plane.




Trump is trying to gain control of the mass media through his constant attacks on the FAKE NEWS and Hollywood. Why regulate them when you can achieve the same thing through an organized campaign of delegitimizing them? That is the Trump way.



Fear of our enemies has been the American motivation for government spending on the military for three-quarters of a century now.

Look who confuses nationalism for fascism and can't tell the difference? The guy who taught civics for years. You hate America that much do you?

 

[William Rea]

Not at all you support people who killed more people than the nazis.

So what was the purpose of quoting the article then?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So what was the purpose of quoting the article then?

So you concede, communists are as bad as nazis and you shouldn't associate yourself with either. Good. we agree,.

 

[William Rea]

So you concede, communists are as bad as nazis and you shouldn't associate yourself with either. Good. we agree,.

I concede nothing however, if you are going to post links and not stand by them then you concede by default through appearing dishonest. Do you stand by what you linked to or not? Or did you realise that you set yourself up for failure and so decided to prematurely declare victory in order to try to cover for it?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I concede nothing however, if you are going to post links and not stand by them then you concede by default through appearing dishonest. Do you stand by what you linked to or not? Or did you realise that you set yourself up for failure and so decided to prematurely declare victory in order to try to cover for it?

So you support communists, which are as bad as nazis in thier mass murdering ways. what do you want me to say about the article that makes you think you will trap me. I simply googled "tennants of fascism", picked the first one I saw.


It's to show you, how ANTIFA uses many of the same tactics and beliefs as the fascists they claim to fight.


you have the rich kid's tyrant in your avatar, so to me it seems you support mass murder when it's for your cause.

 

[bubbabgone]

I concede nothing however, if you are going to post links and not stand by them then you concede by default through appearing dishonest. Do you stand by what you linked to or not? Or did you realise that you set yourself up for failure and so decided to prematurely declare victory in order to try to cover for it?

Repeat question you avoided earlier on this thread...

As an antifa anarchist activist/sympathizer yourself, what did this building do to piss you off so?

 

[William Rea]

So you support communists, which are as bad as nazis in thier mass murdering ways. what do you want me to say about the article that makes you think you will trap me. I simply googled "tennants of fascism", picked the first one I saw.


It's to show you, how ANTIFA uses many of the same tactics and beliefs as the fascists they claim to fight.


you have the rich kid's tyrant in your avatar, so to me it seems you support mass murder when it's for your cause.

So you do stand by what you linked? Or not? You seem kind of vague now.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So you do stand by what you linked? Or not? You seem kind of vague now.

I stand by the fact you support an ideology that has historically been more mass murdery than national socialism.

 

[William Rea]

I stand by the fact you support an ideology that has historically been more mass murdery than national socialism.

My avatar and lean are great. Personally, I like the way that my avatar acts as a hack filter so I can figure out those that I should not take seriously. Not always but, quite often that turns out to be people who self identify as libertarians but then, I've made my feelings about those types fairly clear in the past. Personally, I prefer the kind of people that actually read what I post and respond to that rather than respond to me based upon assumptions about images and leans.

On the rare occasions that I post quotes or links, I only do so when I'm prepared to stand by them, seems like many people treat them like confetti. I have asked you several times to clarify the quote and link that you made but, you seem coy about standing by it. How strange.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

I swear some of these seem like professional internet trolls that are top battle cammers getting their fame hunting for cameras

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

My avatar and lean are great. Personally, I like the way that my avatar acts as a hack filter so I can figure out those that I should not take seriously. Not always but, quite often that turns out to be people who self identify as libertarians but then, I've made my feelings about those types fairly clear in the past. Personally, I prefer the kind of people that actually read what I post and respond to that rather than respond to me based upon assumptions about images and leans.

On the rare occasions that I post quotes or links, I only do so when I'm prepared to stand by them, seems like many people treat them like confetti. I have asked you several times to clarify the quote and link that you made but, you seem coy about standing by it. How strange.

Boring.........



You stand behind a murderous ideology, Communism, which killed more than the nazis. you are no different.