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Antarctica is losing ice 6 times faster today than in 1980s

At this point, it’s like arguing with an anti-vaxxer.
Not really, You stated the following,
The response to CO2 has been predicted to be much greater in the Arctic by many models for 40 years, and its clearly described in the first IPCC report in the early 90s. It’s incredibly basic information!
In post #44, and I showed that James Hansen's model clearly showed nearly equal 2XCO2 forcing warming in both the Arctic and Antarctic zones.
In Post #70 you stated that I had a "abjectly stupid assertion",
To which I challenged you to back up your statement, and show one of the models which show something other that near equal
2XCO2 warming in the Arctic and Antarctic!
 
Not really, You stated the following,

In post #44, and I showed that James Hansen's model clearly showed nearly equal 2XCO2 forcing warming in both the Arctic and Antarctic zones.
In Post #70 you stated that I had a "abjectly stupid assertion",
To which I challenged you to back up your statement, and show one of the models which show something other that near equal
2XCO2 warming in the Arctic and Antarctic!

Boom! Chukka-lukka-lukka!

:bomb:
 
Your comment is entirely uninformed. You would do well to read the posts before popping off.

From the link:

[FONT="]In addition to using ship logbooks from three expeditions led by Scott and two by Shackleton, the researchers used sea-ice records from Belgian, German and French missions, among others. But the team was unable to analyse some logbooks from the Heroic Age period, which have not yet been imaged and digitised. These include the records from the Norwegian Antarctic expedition of 1910-12 lead by Roald Amundsen, the first person to reach both the south and north poles.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#404040][FONT="]Here is the link to the paper[/FONT]

I'm done reading crap from sites like WUWT, Mr. Pomposity. You would do well to read some actual, bona fide scientific web sites before "spouting off." For you, I suggest we start with the basics.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/characteristics/difference.html

Note the pretty pictures that show how the Antarctic sea ice retreats every year, then spreads again during winter down under.

https://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index

Why Antarctica's sea ice cover is so low (and no, it's not just about climate change)

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/SeaIceSouth

Finally, here is one with internal links to even more bona fide science:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice-basic.htm

"Skeptic arguments that Antarctica is gaining ice frequently hinge on an error of omission, namely ignoring the difference between land ice and sea ice."

So, where is that old ship in your photo in all of this? Got the GPS coordinates?
 
And yet you're the one dodging the data and defaulting to ad hominems.

Dude, I've given you more links to actual, real science over the last several weeks than any gifts you ever got from Santa Claus. I dodge nothing, Mr. Pomposity. I simply ignore the crackpots you seem to like.
 
Not really, You stated the following,

In post #44, and I showed that James Hansen's model clearly showed nearly equal 2XCO2 forcing warming in both the Arctic and Antarctic zones.
In Post #70 you stated that I had a "abjectly stupid assertion",
To which I challenged you to back up your statement, and show one of the models which show something other that near equal
2XCO2 warming in the Arctic and Antarctic!

It’s basic climate science.

Let us know when you learn it.
 
It’s basic climate science.

Let us know when you learn it.
Please cite the models that show the 2XCO2 warming will be different in the Arctic vs the Antarctic?
If the science is so basic, it should be easy!
 
I'm done reading crap from sites like WUWT, Mr. Pomposity. You would do well to read some actual, bona fide scientific web sites before "spouting off." For you, I suggest we start with the basics.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/characteristics/difference.html

Note the pretty pictures that show how the Antarctic sea ice retreats every year, then spreads again during winter down under.

https://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index

Why Antarctica's sea ice cover is so low (and no, it's not just about climate change)

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/SeaIceSouth

Finally, here is one with internal links to even more bona fide science:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice-basic.htm

"Skeptic arguments that Antarctica is gaining ice frequently hinge on an error of omission, namely ignoring the difference between land ice and sea ice."

So, where is that old ship in your photo in all of this? Got the GPS coordinates?

Sorry, but you can't substitute snark for data. Let's try again.

Here is the link to the paper

The Cryosphere, 10, 2721-2730, 2016
https://doi.org/10.5194/tc-10-2721-2016
© Author(s) 2016. This work is distributed under
the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License.







21 Nov 2016

Estimating the extent of Antarctic summer sea ice during the Heroic Age of Antarctic Exploration Tom Edinburgh1,a and Jonathan J. Day1

  • 1Department of Meteorology, University of Reading, Reading, UK
  • acurrently at: Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK
Received: 13 Apr 2016 – Discussion started: 29 Apr 2016 – Revised: 11 Sep 2016 – Accepted: 18 Sep 2016 – Published: 21 Nov 2016
Abstract. In stark contrast to the sharp decline in Arctic sea ice, there has been a steady increase in ice extent around Antarctica during the last three decades, especially in the Weddell and Ross seas. In general, climate models do not to capture this trend and a lack of information about sea ice coverage in the pre-satellite period limits our ability to quantify the sensitivity of sea ice to climate change and robustly validate climate models. However, evidence of the presence and nature of sea ice was often recorded during early Antarctic exploration, though these sources have not previously been explored or exploited until now. We have analysed observations of the summer sea ice edge from the ship logbooks of explorers such as Robert Falcon Scott, Ernest Shackleton and their contemporaries during the Heroic Age of Antarctic Exploration (1897–1917), and in this study we compare these to satellite observations from the period 1989–2014, offering insight into the ice conditions of this period, from direct observations, for the first time. This comparison shows that the summer sea ice edge was between 1.0 and 1.7° further north in the Weddell Sea during this period but that ice conditions were surprisingly comparable to the present day in other sectors.

How to cite: Edinburgh, T. and Day, J. J.: Estimating the extent of Antarctic summer sea ice during the Heroic Age of Antarctic Exploration, The Cryosphere, 10, 2721-2730, https://doi.org/10.5194/tc-10-2721-2016, 2016.
 
Not good enough, you have to cite the chapter and text or graphic that supports your assertion,
that the 2XCO2 warming will be different between the Arctic and the Antarctic.

Nothing is ever good enough for a denier.

I see no return on dragging up basic climatology so you can dismiss it on sight, just like Two Minute Man did yesterday.
 
Dude, I've given you more links to actual, real science over the last several weeks than any gifts you ever got from Santa Claus. I dodge nothing, Mr. Pomposity. I simply ignore the crackpots you seem to like.

No. Your primary contribution has been snark. I follow Michelle Obama's advice. When you go low, I go high.
 
Nothing is ever good enough for a denier.

I see no return on dragging up basic climatology so you can dismiss it on sight, just like Two Minute Man did yesterday.
Do you understand that pointing to a several thousand page document and saying the proof is in there is saying nothing,
unless you cite the exact portion in question.
Since you cited the IPCC, then you must know the section that will show that I am wrong, and the the models show,
as you assert that the 2XCO2 warming will be different between the Arctic and the Antarctic.
 
If you must have something...

Which pole is colder? | NASA Climate Kids

Read the last few sentences. Actually, read the whole site. You'll learn a lot.

Who are you answering without a quote?
Also modeled temperatures are based on anomaly temperatures not actual temperatures.
The question at hand is do the models show similar 2XCO2 warming in both the Arctic and Antarctic, or do they predict a different level of warming?
 
Who are you answering without a quote?
Also modeled temperatures are based on anomaly temperatures not actual temperatures.
The question at hand is do the models show similar 2XCO2 warming in both the Arctic and Antarctic, or do they predict a different level of warming?

Reminds me of the classic Perry Mason question: "Were you lying then? Or are you lying now?"
 
If that kids climate site is too much for you, I don’t know what to tell you.
What is strange is that your NASA kids link, has no mention about CO2 at all, which is the subject of the conversation.
 
No one is disputing that GHGs are not GHGs. However, the claimed consensus is still very much disputed.
It really isn't.


If overstated claims are made on just the level of consensus, what other overstated claims might there be? Why might they be made?
I have no idea what you're talking about. Note that the deniers tend to take their own hyperbolic mischaracterizations of the actual scientific projections and impute them to actual scientists.


Given the above, I think it reasonable to be rather dubious about the proposed solutions...
Which solutions? Be specific.


...it reasonable to expect, and perhaps even to demand, solutions other than a massive, world economy destroying, wealth transfer from the Western Industrial nations to all the other nations, an economy destroying reckless abandonment of affordable energy sources.
Yaay, more incredibly inaccurate hyperbole.

None of what you're saying is true. Carbon taxes are just another tax, is fairly easy to implement, and is probably the most effective measure; cap-and-trade is a little more complex, but certainly won't doom the global economy; subsidies for sustainable energy sources are pretty cheap; the Green Climate Fund is also pretty cheap overall.

The alternatives, however, are pretty expensive. Hardening major cities against higher sea levels, and storms that are wetter and more intense, will cost billions upon billions of dollars; losing land to those same forces will also cost billions, and lives are already being lost; damage from climate change will further strain all sorts of resources, such as water supplies; forest fires will be more extensive; heat waves, which are already a major killer, are already becoming more wide-spread and more intense.

Mitigation has all sorts of pitfalls. CO2 capture might work, and might become more cost-effective, but will only make a tiny dent in the huge volumes of CO2 already spewed into the atmosphere. Attempts to reduce solar radiation hitting the earth -- such as injecting huge amounts of sulfur into the atmosphere -- could have all sorts of unforeseen consequences, even when they mimic natural events (like a volcanic eruption). All mitigation options run the risk of encouraging more CO2 production, since "we can fix this, just put more sulfur into the atmosphere!"

Although it is late in the day, we are still much much much better off trying to prevent further harm, than in plodding ahead and not caring, especially when claims about costs are often exaggerations or outright lies.
 
LOL.

Like I said... if you can’t make the connection, I don’t have the time to teach you the basics.
You have not cited anything that states that the 2XCO2 warming will be different in the Arctic vs the Antarctic.
If you think you have, you need to point out where it says that.
Otherwise it is no more valid that a creationist citing the Bible as evidence that the world is not old.
 
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