Antarctic thaw quickens, trillions of tonnes of ice raise sea levels

[Into the Night]

Co2 May be a naturally occurring gas but what isn’t natural is the amount of co2 created through human actions.

CO2 is incapable of warming the Earth.

This attitude that human beings aren't part of nature is ridiculous.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

CO2 is incapable of warming the Earth.

This attitude that human beings aren't part of nature is ridiculous.

The increased levels of co2 traps more infrared rays then is released.

 

[Into the Night]

The increased levels of co2 traps more infrared rays then is released.

It is not possible to trap light. Absorption of infrared light causes conversion to thermal energy. All things warmer than absolute zero (all things!) emit light according to their temperature, which is conversion of thermal energy to light.

You are denying the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You are trying to reduce radiance and use that to increase temperature. That is not possible.

You are also claiming a system where energy is utterly destroyed. That is not possible. You cannot create or destroy energy. What goes in MUST come out. You are denying the law of energy conservation and the 1st law of thermodynamics.

You are also attempting to decrease entropy in the atmosphere, by preventing heating of the upper atmosphere due to 'blocked' heating in the lower atmosphere. You are denying the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It is not possible to decrease entropy in any system.

You are assuming that absorption means re-emission back towards the surface, heating it. It is not possible to heat a warmer surface using a colder object. You can't make hot coffee with ice. This is another way you are violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Heat flows from hot to cold, NEVER the reverse!

 

[Threegoofs]

It is not possible to trap light. Absorption of infrared light causes conversion to thermal energy. All things warmer than absolute zero (all things!) emit light according to their temperature.

You are denying the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You are trying to reduce radiance and use that to increase temperature. That is not possible.

You are also claiming a system where energy is utterly destroyed. That is not possible. You cannot create or destroy energy. What goes in MUST come out. You are denying the law of energy conservation.

 

[Into the Night]

So I see you're a science denier too, eh? Not surprising. The Church of Global Warming denies science and mathematics.

 

[Threegoofs]

So I see you're a science denier too, eh? Not surprising. The Church of Global Warming denies science and mathematics.

I suggest you look into this document.

IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

 

[Into the Night]

I suggest you look into this document.

IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

Already have. It denies the same laws of science I've just mentioned. Showing me Church of Global Warming scripture is not going to change anything in science.

 

[Threegoofs]

Already have. It denies the same laws of science I've just mentioned. Showing me Church of Global Warming scripture is not going to change anything in science.

Ah, yes.

Thousands of accomplished scientists don’t understand the basic laws of science as well as you do.

Got it

 

[Unitedwestand13]

It is not possible to trap light. Absorption of infrared light causes conversion to thermal energy. All things warmer than absolute zero (all things!) emit light according to their temperature.

You are denying the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You are trying to reduce radiance and use that to increase temperature. That is not possible.

You are also claiming a system where energy is utterly destroyed. That is not possible. You cannot create or destroy energy. What goes in MUST come out. You are denying the law of energy conservation.

Infrared light is infrared radiation.

Infrared radiation (IR) is electromagnetic radiation (EMR) with longer wavelengths than those of visible light, and is therefore generally invisible to the human eye (although IR at wavelengths up to 1050 nm from specially pulsed lasers can be seen by humans under certain conditions [1][2][3][4]). It is sometimes called infrared light. IR wavelengths extend from the nominal red edge of the visible spectrum at 700 nanometers (frequency 430 THz), to 1 millimeter (300 GHz)[5] Most of the thermal radiation emitted by objects near room temperature is infrared. Like all EMR, IR carries radiant energy, and behaves both like a wave and like its quantum particle, the photon.

Infrared was discovered in 1800 by astronomer Sir William Herschel, who discovered a type of invisible radiation in the spectrum lower in energy than red light, by means of its effect on a thermometer.[6] Slightly more than half of the total energy from the Sun was eventually found to arrive on Earth in the form of infrared. The balance between absorbed and emitted infrared radiation has a critical effect on Earth's climate.

Infrared radiation comes to earth from the sun, passes through the atmosphere, some energy is absorbed by the earths land mass and oceans while the rest is reflected back out into space. Greenhouse gases traps part of this outgoing radiation and reflects it back to the earths surface.

The amount of light that is reflected or absorbed by a object depends on its albedo, scored on a 0 to 1 scale with 0 albedo being highly absorptive surfaces while objects with higher reflective properties score closer to 1.

For example, the albedo of fresh asphalt is 0.04, meaning it is a great absorber of infrared light. On the other end of the spectrum, highly reflective surfaces such as ocean ice and fresh snow have higher albedo values (ocean ice have albedo scores ranging from 0.5 to 0.7, while fresh snow has high albedo scores (.80-.90) making it a great reflector of infrared light.

The only trouble is that snow and ice melt when subjected to increased temperatures, and water, with a lower albedo score then ice, means it absorbs more infrared energy than it reflects. That contributes to the green house effect.

So.... melting glaciers are a bad thing.

 

[lefty louie]

I'm going to buy some land at elevation just to hedge my bet.

 

[KerouacJack]

Infrared light is infrared radiation.



Infrared radiation comes to earth from the sun, passes through the atmosphere, some energy is absorbed by the earths land mass and oceans while the rest is reflected back out into space. Greenhouse gases traps part of this outgoing radiation and reflects it back to the earths surface.

The amount of light that is reflected or absorbed by a object depends on its albedo, scored on a 0 to 1 scale with 0 albedo being highly absorptive surfaces while objects with higher reflective properties score closer to 1.

For example, the albedo of fresh asphalt is 0.04, meaning it is a great absorber of infrared light. On the other end of the spectrum, highly reflective surfaces such as ocean ice and fresh snow have higher albedo values (ocean ice have albedo scores ranging from 0.5 to 0.7, while fresh snow has high albedo scores (.80-.90) making it a great reflector of infrared light.

The only trouble is that snow and ice melt when subjected to increased temperatures, and water, with a lower albedo score then ice, means it absorbs more infrared energy than it reflects. That contributes to the green house effect.

So.... melting glaciers are a bad thing.

He doesn't believe that, there is no such thing a thermal insolation, My coffee thermos is works by magic.... :lamo

 

[Into the Night]

Infrared light is infrared radiation.

Never disputed that. Why are you bringing it up?

Infrared radiation comes to earth from the sun, passes through the atmosphere, some energy is absorbed by the earths land mass and oceans while the rest is reflected back out into space.

Never disputed this either.

Greenhouse gases traps part of this outgoing radiation

It is not possible to trap light. In your model, if the incoming infrared light came through the atmosphere, why wasn't it absorbed then?

and reflects it back to the earths surface.

You can't heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. You can't make heat flow backwards. You are denying the 2nd law of thermodynamics again.

You can't reduce radiance and increase the temperature of Earth at the same time. You are denying the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.

You can't create energy out of nothing. You are denying the 1st law of thermodynamics again.

No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. Not even CO2 or water vapor.

...deleted Holy Link...
The amount of light that is reflected or absorbed by a object depends on its albedo, scored on a 0 to 1 scale with 0 albedo being highly absorptive surfaces while objects with higher reflective properties score closer to 1.

Not disputed either.

For example, the albedo of fresh asphalt is 0.04, meaning it is a great absorber of infrared light.

You don't know the albedo of fresh asphalt. Argument from randU fallacy.

On the other end of the spectrum, highly reflective surfaces such as ocean ice and fresh snow have higher albedo values (ocean ice have albedo scores ranging from 0.5 to 0.7, while fresh snow has high albedo scores (.80-.90) making it a great reflector of infrared light.

You don't know the albedo of ocean ice or fresh snow either. Again, argument from randU fallacy. However, I do not dispute that ice has a higher albedo compared to asphalt.

The only trouble is that snow and ice melt when subjected to increased temperatures, and water, with a lower albedo score then ice, means it absorbs more infrared energy than it reflects. That contributes to the green house effect.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse' effect. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth.

So.... melting glaciers are a bad thing.

Some glaciers are retreating, others are growing. No one is measuring all of them. There is also a hell of a lot more ice on Earth than just glaciers.

You are also making a circular argument and failing to recognize it (circular argument fallacy). You are assuming the Earth is warming, and THAT is what is causing glaciers to retreat, which causes the Earth to warm, which causes glaciers to retreat, etc.

Glaciers retreat and advance depending on the amount of snow they receive. Dry years produce less snow. They don't have to be warmer years.

All of the world's glaciers combines is a very small amount of the Earth's ice.

 

[Into the Night]

He doesn't believe that, there is no such thing a thermal insolation, My coffee thermos is works by magic.... :lamo

Another believer of the Magick Blanket argument I see.

CO2 is not an insulator. It actually conducts heat better than just about any other gas in the atmosphere. Insulation works both ways. There is no such thing as a magick one way insulation. The purpose of insulation is to reduce heat.

A Thermos jug (Thermos is a brand name and therefore capitalized) is an excellent example. Originally developed to keep things cold, it also works for keeping things hot. By reducing heat, thermal energy outside the container does not affect thermal energy inside the container much. Coupling is reduced. So is heat.

Let's assume a perfect container, where coupling is reduced to zero. There is no heat. The contents inside the container will be at the same temperature as they were when you closed the container. No thermal energy outside the container, no radiation, no anything can affect the temperature inside the container. It is the perfect 'Thermos' jug. The temperature inside the container never changes.

In the atmosphere, there is no insulator. Light arrives from the Sun. Visible light, when absorbed, does very little heating. It's affect is usually chemical reactions. Infrared light (most of the energy arriving from the Sun), heats water and other substances, including gases in the atmosphere, including CO2. The surface is warmer and denser, and contains more thermal energy. It heats the colder atmosphere, mostly by conduction, but also by radiance. Heating the atmosphere COOLS the surface. Absorption of CO2 is just another way for the surface to heat the atmosphere. ALL of it, surface and the atmosphere, radiates into space. You cannot heat an already warmer surface using a colder gas.

 

[RetiredUSN]

The water marker spike that I pounded into the pilings at my boat slip is still about 1" above the water and it's been there since 1986.

I wish the water would rise another foot as my keel catches the bottom in some potentially nice inlets.

 

[Tim the plumber]

The water marker spike that I pounded into the pilings at my boat slip is still about 1" above the water and it's been there since 1986.

I wish the water would rise another foot as my keel catches the bottom in some potentially nice inlets.

Will you deniers stop disrupting the message with facts!!!!

 

[RetiredUSN]

Will you deniers stop disrupting the message with facts!!!!

Hey...… Maybe someone is pulling a trick on me and moving the spike?

 

[Aristaeus]

Another believer of the Magick Blanket argument I see.

CO2 is not an insulator. It actually conducts heat better than just about any other gas in the atmosphere. Insulation works both ways. There is no such thing as a magick one way insulation. The purpose of insulation is to reduce heat.

A Thermos jug (Thermos is a brand name and therefore capitalized) is an excellent example. Originally developed to keep things cold, it also works for keeping things hot. By reducing heat, thermal energy outside the container does not affect thermal energy inside the container much. Coupling is reduced. So is heat.

Let's assume a perfect container, where coupling is reduced to zero. There is no heat. The contents inside the container will be at the same temperature as they were when you closed the container. No thermal energy outside the container, no radiation, no anything can affect the temperature inside the container. It is the perfect 'Thermos' jug. The temperature inside the container never changes.

In the atmosphere, there is no insulator. Light arrives from the Sun. Visible light, when absorbed, does very little heating. It's affect is usually chemical reactions. Infrared light (most of the energy arriving from the Sun), heats water and other substances, including gases in the atmosphere, including CO2. The surface is warmer and denser, and contains more thermal energy. It heats the colder atmosphere, mostly by conduction, but also by radiance. Heating the atmosphere COOLS the surface. Absorption of CO2 is just another way for the surface to heat the atmosphere. ALL of it, surface and the atmosphere, radiates into space. You cannot heat an already warmer surface using a colder gas.

So how do you explain the fact that Venus, with an atmosphere of around 96% CO2 is hotter than Mercury which is much closer to the sun?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Hey...… Maybe someone is pulling a trick on me and moving the spike?

That's it you denier of science it is you who is moving the spike and making it look like the consensus[SUP]TM[/SUP] is worng!

Evil man!!

 

[Lord of Planar]

Will you deniers stop disrupting the message with facts!!!!

Maybe he needs to just deny the rocks exist.

Oh wait... Maybe they rose alone with the sea level!

 

[Lord of Planar]

Hey...… Maybe someone is pulling a trick on me and moving the spike?

Maybe the spike is growing. Afterall, it is planted in water...

 

[itsforthekids]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-tonnes-of-ice-raise-sea-levels-idUSKBN1J92IE

OSLO (Reuters) - An accelerating thaw of Antarctica has pushed up world sea levels by almost a centimeter since the early 1990s in a risk for coasts from Pacific islands to Florida, an international team of scientists said on Thursday.
========================================
Trump denies the effects of climate change but asked permission to build a sea wall at one of his gold courses in Scotland or Ireland to mitigate damage from rising water caused by climate change. Hypocrite.

We've been told this lie for 20 years. The CCX was a bust, the promised category 6 hurricanes haven't arrived, Miami and New York city are still above sea level (although it's surprising, being that they were built on swamp land and backfill).


The mmgcc wacko's are beyond crazy. Just look at their leader.

 

[Surface Detail]

So how do you explain the fact that Venus, with an atmosphere of around 96% CO2 is hotter than Mercury which is much closer to the sun?

*crickets*

 

[Oceanborn]

Uh... Yeah, no, that's not how it works.



Environmentalism doesn't have to be partisan; in fact, when the ball first got rolling in the early 70s, it was bipartisan. It was quite successful as well, especially with reining in some of the more obvious and egregious forms of pollution, especially air pollution.

There's a lot we can do, mostly focusing on curtailing emissions of greenhouse gases. There are plenty of ways that's compatible with conservatism, ranging from carbon trading plans, to encouraging energy independence, to the increasing monetization of renewable power. We've already taken some small steps that have not destroyed the entire nation, such as popularizing LED bulbs, adopting hybrid vehicles, raising gas mileage standards, and increasing the use of lower-emission fuels (notably natural gas).

Texas -- hardly a bleeding-heart-liberal state -- produces more power from wind than any other state, and some believe that the reduced regulation on the grid facilitated that growth. That's straight-up capitalism.

https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2004/05mar_arctic

"The thawing of sea ice covering the Arctic could disturb or even halt large currents in the Atlantic Ocean. Without the vast heat that these ocean currents deliver--comparable to the power generation of a million nuclear power plants--Europe's average temperature would likely drop 5 to 10°C (9 to 18°F), and parts of eastern North America would be chilled somewhat less. Such a dip in temperature would be similar to global average temperatures toward the end of the last ice age roughly 20,000 years ago.

Some scientists believe this shift in ocean currents could come surprisingly soon--within as little as 20 years, according to Robert Gagosian, president and director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Others doubt it will happen at all. Even so, the Pentagon is taking notice. Andrew Marshall, a veteran Defense Department planner, recently released an unclassified report detailing how a shift in ocean currents in the near future could compromise national security."

Since the ocean currents and the weather are directly connected, it does work like that. Currents influence weather, the salt content of the ocean water influences currents. Everything is connected.

 

[KerouacJack]

Another believer of the Magick Blanket argument I see.

CO2 is not an insulator. It actually conducts heat better than just about any other gas in the atmosphere. Insulation works both ways. There is no such thing as a magick one way insulation. The purpose of insulation is to reduce heat.

A Thermos jug (Thermos is a brand name and therefore capitalized) is an excellent example. Originally developed to keep things cold, it also works for keeping things hot. By reducing heat, thermal energy outside the container does not affect thermal energy inside the container much. Coupling is reduced. So is heat.

Let's assume a perfect container, where coupling is reduced to zero. There is no heat. The contents inside the container will be at the same temperature as they were when you closed the container. No thermal energy outside the container, no radiation, no anything can affect the temperature inside the container. It is the perfect 'Thermos' jug. The temperature inside the container never changes.

In the atmosphere, there is no insulator. Light arrives from the Sun. Visible light, when absorbed, does very little heating. It's affect is usually chemical reactions. Infrared light (most of the energy arriving from the Sun), heats water and other substances, including gases in the atmosphere, including CO2. The surface is warmer and denser, and contains more thermal energy. It heats the colder atmosphere, mostly by conduction, but also by radiance. Heating the atmosphere COOLS the surface. Absorption of CO2 is just another way for the surface to heat the atmosphere. ALL of it, surface and the atmosphere, radiates into space. You cannot heat an already warmer surface using a colder gas.

mmm no, this post is lacking an understanding concerning the properties of electromagnetic waves, chemistry, and the atmosphere. The lower atmosphere allows visible light to pass through to the earth. The earth radiates energy back at wavelengths that are much longer than the wavelengths that were absorbed (like infrared) back to the atmosphere which absorbs most of this energy which warms it. The atmosphere radiates energy both upwards and downwards; the part radiated downwards is absorbed by the surface of Earth.*(causing a feedback loop) This leads to a higher equilibrium temperature than if the atmosphere were absent.

 

[KerouacJack]

The water marker spike that I pounded into the pilings at my boat slip is still about 1" above the water and it's been there since 1986.

I wish the water would rise another foot as my keel catches the bottom in some potentially nice inlets.

Anecdotes are not proof... especially made up ones.

You must have your slip on a lake.