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And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments [W:744]

Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

wolfsgirl said:
If he opposes marriage why does he offer wedding cakes? Or is it he only opposes gay people getting married? THAT would be refusal of service based on the sexual orientation of the people buying the cake.
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Now we are back to the black baker and the KKK. Its not the bakers problem that the klan only admits white folks. He objects to what the organization represents.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

wolfsgirl said:
The baker offered wedding cakes. Yes, he refuses to make Halloween cakes, but the difference is that he does not make them for anyone. He doesn't make them for person A and refuse person B.

KKK doesn't simply mean white, it is an org.
Gay is not and org. It is a sexual orientation.
If he has a problem making wedding cakes, why does he offer wedding cakes?
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And if you are a white guy, you dont have to participate in klan events. But if you, its not reasonable to expect the black baker to also participate.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

AGENT J said:
why dont you just say you are for or against equal rights, public accommodation laws and illegal discrimination at laws lol
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1. I'm not against equal rights. I was against gay marriage, but only based on the use of the term "marriage", not because I felt that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to enter into a legal partnership just as heterosexual couples do.

2. I am fine with public accommodation laws, as long as they don't require business owners to engage in activities or events that violate the tenets of their religion, or can be easily shown to be morally offensive or objectionable to them. If that's the case, then those laws need to be amended to respect the freedom and rights of business owners.

Any baker, florist or photographer that refuses to serve homosexuals, is engaging in discrimination and should be subject to legal action taken against them... Any baker, florist or photographer that refuses to cater a gay wedding because homosexual marriage violates their religious beliefs, is discriminating against a ceremony they object to, and should not be subject to legal action being taken against them.

The same should apply for a Muslim baker, florist or photographer who refuses to serve Jews, they are engaging in discrimination and should be subject to legal action taken against them... Any Muslim baker, florist or photographer that refuses to cater to a Jewish wedding or Bar Mitzvah, is discriminating against a ceremony they object to, and should not be subject to legal action being taken against them.

It should also apply for a black baker, florist or photographer who refuses to serve white people, they are also engaging in discrimination and should be subject to legal action taken against them... But any black baker, florist or photographer that refuses to cater to the wedding of a local KKK leader, is discriminating against a ceremony for people who's beliefs they find morally objectionable, and should not be subject to legal action being taken against them.

What this really comes down to is having respect for the values and beliefs of others. Not serving someone because of their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation, is disrespectful and wrong... just as suing a Christian baker because he didn't want to cater to an event that violates his religious beliefs is disrespectful and wrong.

Tolerance is a 2 way street and public accommodation laws that don't reflect this, need to be repealed and rewritten. A little respect and common sense can go a long way.


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Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

wolfsgirl said:
The baker offered wedding cakes. Yes, he refuses to make Halloween cakes, but the difference is that he does not make them for anyone. He doesn't make them for person A and refuse person B.

KKK doesn't simply mean white, it is an org.
Gay is not and org. It is a sexual orientation.
If he has a problem making wedding cakes, why does he offer wedding cakes?
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So you are saying that the KKK is more than just white people? prove it.
Weddings are events not people.

you seem to want to apply your own standard willy nilly as long as you agree with it politically.

He doesn't have a problem with wedding cakes he has a problem with certain events that will use the cakes he makes.
you don't seem to be able to separate the two.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

wolfsgirl said:
It isn't hard to understand, and it isn't hard to understand the solution. If your religion says that you can not sell wedding cakes without discriminating, don't offer any wedding cakes for sale.
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Nothing wrong with selling wedding cakes but bakers reserve the right to refuse to decorate them in a way they find offensive, like shaping them like genetalia or designing a cake against their religious principles. If the buyer wants something specific that the baker refuses to do then they have the right to go elsewhere or design the cake themselves after the baker sells them something that is not against their principles.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

wolfsgirl said:
If he has a problem making wedding cakes, why does he offer wedding cakes?
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When the baker in question first opened his business and offered custom cakes for weddings, marriage was recognized legally, religiously and in our society as a ceremony/event to join only a man and a woman together in matrimony.

Even though the legal definition of marriage has changed, that definition has not changed among many long established religions. One of the cornerstones of the country's founding was religious freedom and respecting people's right to believe and worship the way they choose. The government has every right to change the law and allow gay marriage, but that have no right to demand that religious establishments change their tenets or their followers to engage in things that run counter to their long held beliefs. The religious beliefs about marriage have been established for many centuries and because America has freedom of religion in the constitution, laws have to take that into account.

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Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

LaylaWindu said:
Even though the OP is obviously biased I'll just post in this thread what I post in the other thread with a normal OP.

"IMO The Supreme Court will uphold the lower court ruling. Why would they rule differently? There no justification to rule against colrado. Didn't two cases already rule against the illegal discrimination? For some time now we have been moving towards protecting sexual orentation under the term sex (which in my opinion it definitely should be). As a christian I see the religious claim and that angle for what it is, complete BS. Religion is not a factor here just like its not a factor when discriminating against other things. Religion isn't an acceptable argument to discriminate against me as a woman or blacks why on earth would anybody claim it's ok for this? I would never support a public accommodation business discriminating based on race, religion, sex etc. On a personal level it goes against everything civil and decent in me. As for the law I fully support illegal discrimination and public accommodation laws as they protect us all in a civil society and try to help keep such vile practices at bay. I think they are everything a civil society should be about when it comes to public accommodation commerce such as storefronts etc. If a person can't behave with a certain about of civility like controlling their bigotry then public accommodation business probably isn't for them. They can go into private, online (anonymous) and or membership business etc. It's actually kind of perplexing to me. If I knew I was so bigoted to some degree why would I go into a business that is regulated by laws that is going to conflict with that. It's really stupid.
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Hate to break it to you but, this is what the Supreme Court does and why it is there. They overturn lower court rulings all of the time. Your post implies, "Why would the Supreme Court overturn any lower court's decision"?
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Fraggle Rock said:
I think that if these sloped headed morons want to refuse people based on gender, race, religion, etc etc....then they have to post it in there windows very large for all to see. This way respectable people can take their business elsewhere.
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That's basically the right's stance as well. So, what's the problem then?
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

lefty louie said:
I just picture me, walking into a Muslim bakery and saying, "Mr.Baker, I want you to bake a cake for my gay father who happens to be a farmer, we want a full farm decoration on top including a pig, or a cake for more delicatessen owning uncle, with salami, bacon, ham draped all over it. LMAO, I can see that happening.
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Oh man, how are the lefties going to answer that?
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

gdgyva said:
You say they shouldn’t have gone into business knowing this....you do realize some people have been in business for decades right? They were in business long before the gays were fighting for their rights....maybe not these particular bakers, but the ruling always affects everyone

I know...”they need to change with the times” right?

It would be nice for some of you guys to just for a moment put yourselves in the shoes of the business people we are talking about....I realize you may not hold their beliefs, or even respect them, but at least try to understand where they are coming from

For every case like this, you are causing the public to go backwards on support for your cause
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That's exactly it!
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

maxparrish said:
The colorado cake arguments are, as most expected, pivoting around the uncertain vote of Justice Kennedy. Justice Kennedy is almost always the key swing vote, and is usually unpredictable; you may get a coherent and traditional legal smackdown of the State of Colorado OR a Constitutionally dubious and semi-mystical confirmation of the states authority make all bend the knee to serve gay marriage.

While both sides heard good news from Kennedy (conveyed in questioning) there is an impression that Kennedy gave slightly more deference to court conservatives.



Photographers, bakers, and other personal service providers may yet win the right to not "bend the knee" to the PC gaystopo
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I have GOT to locate some outrage.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Moderate Right said:
Great video!
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I think so too... The questions come down to respect and common sense, which those students displayed in their answers. That is until the last one.

That's when respect and common sense came face to face with the progressive talking points they've been indoctrinated with. They realized at that moment that the progressive beliefs they've been taught and have espoused, were in direct conflict with common sense and they learned the true meaning of "tolerance". Whether that realization sinks in and sticks with them is anyone's guess. Using this board is an indicator, it doesn't leave me very hopeful.

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Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Grim17 said:
When the baker in question first opened his business and offered custom cakes for weddings, marriage was recognized legally, religiously and in our society as a ceremony/event to join only a man and a woman together in matrimony.

Even though the legal definition of marriage has changed, that definition has not changed among many long established religions. One of the cornerstones of the country's founding was religious freedom and respecting people's right to believe and worship the way they choose. The government has every right to change the law and allow gay marriage, but that have no right to demand that religious establishments change their tenets or their followers to engage in things that run counter to their long held beliefs. The religious beliefs about marriage have been established for many centuries and because America has freedom of religion in the constitution, laws have to take that into account.

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The law requires he offers his wares to customers whoever they are. A cake is a cake is a cake, however artistically it's made. There is no religious proscription on cake sales.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Manc Skipper said:
The law requires he offers his wares to customers whoever they are. A cake is a cake is a cake, however artistically it's made. There is no religious proscription on cake sales.
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Did you watch the video? https://youtu.be/U2DeCkO5vGI
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Manc Skipper said:
The law requires he offers his wares to customers whoever they are. A cake is a cake is a cake, however artistically it's made. There is no religious proscription on cake sales.
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If they just asked for a regular, generic cake, they would have been accommodated as his past transactions with gay customers over the years has demonstrated. This was a cake they wanted customized for an event that violates the tenets of his religion, so he respectfully declined.

Tolerance is a 2-way street.

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Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Manc Skipper said:
I'm allergic to specious rants and edited crapola. Does it refer to the thread topic?
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It's only three and a half minutes. It is related to the thread topic.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Manc Skipper said:
The law requires he offers his wares to customers whoever they are. A cake is a cake is a cake, however artistically it's made. There is no religious proscription on cake sales.
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Let me also add, that he didn't refuse his wares based on "who" they were, but rather the event they wanted it customized for.

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Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Grim17 said:
Let me also add, that he didn't refuse his wares based on "who" they were, but rather the event they wanted it customized for.

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What was this "customisation" exactly? My understanding was that they got no further than wanting to buy a pretty wedding cake for a wedding.
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Grim17 said:
If they just asked for a regular, generic cake, they would have been accommodated as his past transactions with gay customers over the years has demonstrated. This was a cake they wanted customized for an event that violates the tenets of his religion, so he respectfully declined.

Tolerance is a 2-way street.

.
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Show me scripture that specifies wedding cakes must be kosher. (to the baker)
 
Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Manc Skipper said:
What was this "customisation" exactly? My understanding was that they got no further than wanting to buy a pretty wedding cake for a wedding.
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All wedding cakes are special ordered and customized, otherwise they could have bought one off the shelf and wouldn't have needed to talk to the owner in the first place.

The premise stands, that if they just ordered a generic cake, they would have been served. That leads to the undeniable conclusion that his refusal wasn't based on their sexual orientation, but to the event they wanted it created for.

Again... Tolerance is a 2-way street.

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Re: And then they came for the bakers; Colorado Cake Oral Arguments Encouraging

Manc Skipper said:
Show me scripture that specifies wedding cakes must be kosher. (to the baker)
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Resorting to ridiculous replies like that tell me you're only here to defend your political ideology, not to discuss tolerance, respect, or to debate what's right and wrong.

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