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An honest question for information...

phattonez said:
What's the point? Then we'll get truck attacks or bombings like Europe. Gun control is attacking the symptoms, not the cause. Our society is disintegrating. That is the ultimate cause. Nothing is going to reverse the trend until we deal with it.
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Terrorism of that sort is a different thing. First we have to get control of ourselves; that's how we deal with it.
 
jet57 said:
Terrorism of that sort is a different thing. First we have to get control of ourselves; that's how we deal with it.
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What's the difference between San Bernardino and Nice?
 
jet57 said:
Better gun control for our time simply means knowing where every gun is, banning the sale of anything like ARs and banana clips, drums and anything that will facilitate the kinds of mass shootings we've been seeing these days. It also means tightening up regulations in every state and getting some sort of consistency going on to close the holes.
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what stupid idiocy. How do you ban AR-15s without banning that MI carbine you own. we understand you live under idiotic laws in California but we who don't oppose that crap being spread to our states
 
jet57 said:
Terrorism of that sort is a different thing. First we have to get control of ourselves; that's how we deal with it.
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you want to harass honest citizens and start a civil war which will be exactly what terrorists want
 
jet57 said:
Better gun control for our time simply means knowing where every gun is, banning the sale of anything like ARs and banana clips, drums and anything that will facilitate the kinds of mass shootings we've been seeing these days. It also means tightening up regulations in every state and getting some sort of consistency going on to close the holes.
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Please provide evidence any of what you said will work.
 
jet57 said:
Australia
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good luck with that nonsense here. even if it would make you feel great to see guns you cannot own in California confiscated in other states
 
jet57 said:
Australia
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Evidence that there gun laws reduce gun deaths or even mass shootings? New Zealand has the same gun and mass shooting death rate and they didn't ban anything.
 
jet57 said:
Australia
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Given that they only collected about 70% of the guns they banned, and didn't ban guns commonly used in mass shootings, how did their ban work?
 
Maccabee said:
Evidence that there gun laws reduce gun deaths or even mass shootings? New Zealand has the same gun and mass shooting death rate and they didn't ban anything.
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You asked for proof and I gave it to you. Quit moving the goal post.
 
Rucker61 said:
Given that they only collected about 70% of the guns they banned, and didn't ban guns commonly used in mass shootings, how did their ban work?
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harassment of gun owners is his goal and that law worked to do that.
 
Maccabee said:
Evidence that there gun laws reduce gun deaths or even mass shootings? New Zealand has the same gun and mass shooting death rate and they didn't ban anything.
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Provide evidence for your claim
 
jet57 said:
You asked for proof and I gave it to you. Quit moving the goal post.
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It doesn't matter. It could come from God himself and they would not believe it
 
vegas giants said:
Oh please.
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great rebuttal there Vegas. Its obvious, He wants to confiscate guns owned by Americans because he cannot own them in California
 
TurtleDude said:
great rebuttal there Vegas. Its obvious, He wants to confiscate guns owned by Americans because he cannot own them in California
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Are we down to only 300 million guns? How do you get by? Lol
 
vegas giants said:
It doesn't matter. It could come from God himself and they would not believe it
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It just proves how silly and out of touch with reality the gun guys are. They will choose "they're right to carry under the second amendment" over people's lives - every - time; it's a kind of sociopathic world view. They're part of the antebellum confederate movement of the far right in this country.
 
vegas giants said:
I like your list. It might even be a little too much in some areas but I agree with the idea. And the gun show loophole should really be called the private sale loophole. It means in some states no background check is required for a private sale (which can happen at some gun shows). Some states have closed the loophole....most have not. Its a huge problem
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I almost agree with you. Except for the private sale loophole. The vast majority of private transfers are either sales to friends and family, or transfers of family or similar, Almost none of those figure in crime. Criminals get their guns from other criminals and are illegally owned. No amount of legislation will stop that. The private sellers at gun shows are generally selling their own collections or grandpa's accumulation. Model 70's and double 12's and the like. None of which are of any interest to a criminal.

The problem for me is that the goal of banners is banning, not reasonable law. Pin them down they will admit it, even on boards like this. Arguments like if you can own one gun, any gun, then your rights aren't being violated, or ammunition doesn't count, or tax guns out of existence.

I have no real problem with Va laws as they exist. I can own most anything I want, can walk out of a gun store with a handgun in a couple hours. But from a legal standpoint I recognize that banners use incremental steps, so I fall solidly into the shall not be infringed category.
 
soylentgreen said:
Then my apology if you took it that way. Let me say that there are cases of self defense. People are justified in defending themselves. I have no problem with people who own guns.

The problem i am stating is that in america there is an attitude that they have a right to kill and they also have a belief that stupidity is a right. Especially stupidity with guns. But again let me emphasise that it is onlya small proportion that act in this way. Most gun owners are, as has been claimed many times by others, quite sensible with their guns. However your laws and attitude with guns allows for the killing of people and thus america deservedly gets a reputation as a gun violent place.

If you kill a person and it turns out that it was not self defense then you should face the consequence of that and not just shrug it off with the right to kill outways anothers right to life. That is the basis of the self defense rule in most countries.
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If you believe that the number is only a small portion and so does the left, then why does the left go after legal gun owners and generally ignore those illegally possessing guns. If street guns are the problem, then go after street guns. Case in point. McCauliffe, Va current governor, is a Clinton friend, anti gun, loony leftist. One of his first acts was to rescind all but one reciprocal agreements. Meaning I can no longer leave the state with a gun in the car. Really? Reciprocal agreements affect only legal gun owners. That one got beaten back. Fortunately.

I don't think legal gun owners believe they have a right to kill. Far from it. Carriers generally carry to prevent killing of honest citizens. Similarly, I recognize in most lethal shoots the shooter has a few seconds at best to make a decision, often, or a bunch of decisions, often in the dead of night, then a panel of 6 takes weeks of viewing mountains of evidence to determine if he decision was correct.
 
jet57 said:
You asked for proof and I gave it to you. Quit moving the goal post.
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What goalpost am I moving? I asked originally how do you know gun laws work. You said "Australia." In order to prove that it works in Australia you must prove direct cause and effect. I'm asking the same question only rephrased.
 
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