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An Argument in Support of the Electoral College.

OpportunityCost said:
By your used logic and rationale, if we say the next Democrat candidate is being aided by China, they shouldn't be elected by the EC?
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If you have a credible case - one would hope the electors would their job and do as Hamilton told the nation they would and investigate it before voting.
 
haymarket said:
If you have a credible case - one would hope the electors would their job and do as Hamilton told the nation they would and investigate it before voting.
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An evasion that isn't an answer but foreshadows your real response, partisan qualifiers to "credible".

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OpportunityCost said:
An evasion that isn't an answer but foreshadows your real response, partisan qualifiers to "credible".

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If the answer was any more direct, your question would be the equal to road kill after the Mack Truck went by.
 
haymarket said:
If the answer was any more direct, your question would be the equal to road kill after the Mack Truck went by.
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You provided an answer with a caveat not satisfied by the current situation. Your judgment isn't rational.
 
OpportunityCost said:
You provided an answer with a caveat not satisfied by the current situation. Your judgment isn't rational.
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That makes no sense on any level as a rational response to the post from me you were pretending to be replying to.
 
haymarket said:
That makes no sense on any level as a rational response to the post from me you were pretending to be replying to.
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Blah, blah word salad avoidance bull**** hack response.

So partisan you can't even address direct points, go away now.
 
Interesting to see how proponents one this tread are clinging to their logic as if it were truth. The reality is that the D's don't like the electoral college because it elected Mr. T----and the R's like the electoral college because it did elect Mr. T, despite a slight imbalance of popular vote.

Whether the USA keeps the electoral college or discards it, USA will not be better governed than it was before. Corruption, pork barrelling, inept decisions, inability to reform bad legislation, etc. will still be part of the American way regardless.
 
haymarket said:
A perfect description of your posts.
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Why not just answer the question unequivocally? The standard set by the current situation is the accusation. You punted when asked the same of the other party. You are just another rabid partisan, there are no high ideals at work.
 
haymarket said:
I did.

Why not discuss the topic of the Electoral College instead of trying to make things personal?
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Because you always answer with conditions and equivocation instead of applying your standard equally.

At the time of the election there was nothing to indicate Trump was under foreign influence and scant evidence even now.

So, apparently just the accusation for one set of politicians and another set of rules for the other.

You decided to get snippy because your double standard is so easy to illustrate. You want two sets of rules for the electoral college or you want it abandoned because of one failed election for democrats.

Pick better people, run better campaigns.

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OpportunityCost said:
Because you always answer with conditions and equivocation instead of applying your standard equally.

At the time of the election there was nothing to indicate Trump was under foreign influence and scant evidence even now.

So, apparently just the accusation for one set of politicians and another set of rules for the other.

You decided to get snippy because your double standard is so easy to illustrate. You want two sets of rules for the electoral college or you want it abandoned because of one failed election for democrats.

Pick better people, run better campaigns.

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I don't know what part of the non-reality continuum you choose to willfully reside in, but there was lots and lots and lots of national concern about Trump and the Russians when the electoral college electors met in 2016. And there is no evidence that even a single state meeting even brought up the subject let alone did any sort of investigation.

here is evidence

Electoral College must do its job on Trump's Russian connections - Chicago Tribune

Apparently these Electoral College voters aren't smart enough to ignore information from America's highly trained intelligence agents and are stubbornly insistent on having all available information on why a country led by a former KGB agent might have favored Trump.

You'd almost think it's the job of the Electoral College to ensure that voters aren't putting a wholly unqualified person with intentionally murky financial conflicts of interest and questionable ties to a foreign power into office. Where would anybody get that idea?

Some suggest it came from Alexander Hamilton's explanation of the Electoral College's purpose in The Federalist Papers: "Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one quarter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union?"

Anyhoo, who's got time to read all those words? Besides, if the Founding Fathers were so smart, why are they all dead? Open your eyes, people.
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It was there and it was openly discussed nationally and locally. To play ostrich or to simply pretend you are one of those three monkeys with their hands over various parts of their heads does NOT change the historical fact that the concern was very very much a national concern when the electors met in December of 2016. And then they FAILED UTTERLY to do the job that Hamilton promised the nation they would do to protect the people.

and more evidence that somehow you missed

If you’re a Trump voter and agree with the three premises listed above, and also believe that there’s no chance a pre-Electoral College investigation into Russian cyber activity will change the result of the general election—and therefore that the investigation would only strengthen a Trump presidency—you should support this investigation and a brief postponement of the December 19th Electoral College vote.

The only reason for a Trump voter to feel otherwise (assuming the voter accepts the three premises listed above) would be (1) if they believe the intelligence community is planning a political coup through a massive misinformation campaign and the installation of Clinton as president, or (2) if they believe an absence of proof of Russian interference is itself proof that no such interference occurred—a logical fallacy. (By definition, we can’t prove something true or untrue until it’s been fully investigated. And in addition to the three premises above, all Americans can agree that there’s not yet been a full investigation of Russian cyber activity during the election. That’s the very reason even Republican Congressmen are demanding that we hold just such an investigation now.)
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https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...must-be-postponed_us_584d8789e4b01713310511d5

I present these articles to demonstrate that your statement is simply not true and , in fact, not even based in reality.

You - getting personal and what you call "snippy" is something you do out of instinct with me. You always have and you cannot control yourself with it.

I do NOT want two sets of rules for the electoral college. I want one simple thing: no Electoral College at all.
 
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haymarket said:
I don't know what part of the non-reality continuum you choose to willfully reside in, but there was lots and lots and lots of national concern about Trump and the Russians when the electoral college electors met in 2016. And there is no evidence that even a single state meeting even brought up the subject let alone did any sort of investigation.

here is evidence

Electoral College must do its job on Trump's Russian connections - Chicago Tribune



It was there and it was openly discussed nationally and locally. To play ostrich or to simply pretend you are one of those three monkeys with their hands over various parts of their heads does NOT change the historical fact that the concern was very very much a national concern when the electors met in December of 2016. And then they FAILED UTTERLY to do the job that Hamilton promised the nation they would do to protect the people.

and more evidence that somehow you missed



https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...must-be-postponed_us_584d8789e4b01713310511d5

I present these articles to demonstrate that your statement is simply not true and , in fact, not even based in reality.

You - getting personal and what you call "snippy" is something you do out of instinct with me. You always have and you cannot control yourself with it.

I do NOT want two sets of rules for the electoral college. I want one simple thing: no Electoral College at all.
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Opinion pieces are not evidence, no matter how much you want it to be. Failing to get what you want, you will settle for two standards, I'm sure.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Opinion pieces are not evidence, no matter how much you want it to be. Failing to get what you want, you will settle for two standards, I'm sure.
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Opinion pieces are indeed evidence of the OPINION that the Electoral College needed to investigate Russian interference in the election when they met. You wanted to pretend otherwise and I showed you that you were simply either wrong or not living in the same reality that others could readily see right in front of them.

Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post

At the time of the election there was nothing to indicate Trump was under foreign influence and scant evidence even now.
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It is amazing how things like this which are so simple and so obvious and so beyond argument just fly miles and miles above your head. :doh:roll:

This response from you is simply astounding.
 
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haymarket said:
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Opinion pieces are indeed evidence of the OPINION that the Electoral College needed to investigate Russian interference in the election when they met. You wanted to pretend otherwise and I showed you that you were simply either wrong or not living in the same reality that others could readily see right in front of them.



It is amazing how things like this which are so simple and so obvious and so beyond argument just fly miles and miles above your head. :doh:roll:

This response from you is simply astounding.
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I'm sure it is. It's always astounding to people when their partisan ****ery is exposed. Two opinion pieces written absent of proof shouldn't overturn the election. No matter how much you cry, whine and bitch about it.

No underhanded application of the 25th.
No underhanded usurpation of the EC.

Democrats need to find the stones to impeach, or quit whinging and run on better ideas.


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haymarket said:
Glad to see you have seen the light and are pleading guilty as accused.
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Why is it when you are pressed you always play these bull**** word games instead of meeting the issue head on. You always have to do this nonsense instead of just addressing things.

Its pathetic.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Why is it when you are pressed you always play these bull**** word games instead of meeting the issue head on. You always have to do this nonsense instead of just addressing things.

Its pathetic.
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So in your world, words do not have meanings and there are no such thing as details and factors which can change and impact a decision or event?

Must be nice to live in such a black-and-white, all or nothing place where reality never intrudes on your belief system which never wavers or depends on changes in circumstances and events.
 
haymarket said:
So in your world, words do not have meanings and there are no such thing as details and factors which can change and impact a decision or event?

Must be nice to live in such a black-and-white, all or nothing place where reality never intrudes on your belief system which never wavers or depends on changes in circumstances and events.
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Rubbish, you are saying an election should be overturned over rumor mill gossip. The voters decide and the electors act accordingly. Not the other way around, as you are suggesting.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Rubbish, you are saying an election should be overturned over rumor mill gossip. The voters decide and the electors act accordingly. Not the other way around, as you are suggesting.
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Not at all. I am saying the electors should do the job that was promised to the American people that they would do.
 
haymarket said:
Not at all. I am saying the electors should do the job that was promised to the American people that they would do.
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More false interpretation.

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haymarket said:
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Opinion pieces are indeed evidence of the OPINION that the Electoral College needed to investigate Russian interference in the election when they met. You wanted to pretend otherwise and I showed you that you were simply either wrong or not living in the same reality that others could readily see right in front of them.



It is amazing how things like this which are so simple and so obvious and so beyond argument just fly miles and miles above your head. :doh:roll:

This response from you is simply astounding.
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The Russians are socialists and communists. They would much prefer someone like Hillary or Obama in office. Trump is neither a socialist nor a communist. Why do you think Trump is a Russian agent???
 
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