America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office

[Moderate Right]

America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office


New York (CNN Business)The US economy in 2019 grew at its slowest pace in three years, according to preliminary data from the Commerce Department.

The economy expanded by 2.3% last year, its lowest level since 2016, when growth stood at 1.6%.
The economy under President Donald Trump has been consistently strong but not electric. In its best year, 2018, the economy expanded at a 2.9% clip. In 2017, it grew by 2.4%.
The dropoff in 2019 was because personal consumption and exports fell, according to the Commerce Department.

---

Critics of Obama said his economy was mediocre because he never had GDP growth at 3% or higher. Neither has Trump, with low unemployment and a trillion dollar deficit that's basically fiscal stimulus.
Trump promised on the campaign trail that he'd bring in 4, 5, and maybe 6% growth. Didn't happen. His tax-cuts were supposed to be the economic miracle to boost growth. It didn't happen. His tariffs were supposed to help exports. Exports fell.

Personally I think 2 - 3 percent is just about right. Too much and you beg for a recession.

 

[Kushinator]

No, he didn't make up the data

You posted the wrong calculation and it is here for everyone to see:

GDP growth for Trump

DP and Dollar change
2013 16974.9
2014 17527.7 552,8
2015 18224.8 697.1
2016 18915.0 490.2
2017 19918.9 1003.9
2018 20897.2 1006.1
2019 21734.3 1154.1

And not only did you post this fake data once, but you were pretty adamant about it for some time... going so far to call people liars for pointing out your error.

 

[Kushinator]

No, I think

It's already been addressed. If you took the time to read the exchange instead of quoting me in a sarcastic tone, it would have been crystal clear:

That is using Q4 seasonally adjusted data for 2019. But when you are making your calculation, you're not using the Q4 SAD for 2018, which is $20897.8 billion. You're clearly using different data points, e.g. subtracting an annual figure from a quarterly figure.

In another post, you wrote:

GDP growth for Trump

DP and Dollar change
2013 16974.9
2014 17527.7 552,8
2015 18224.8 697.1
2016 18915.0 490.2
2017 19918.9 1003.9
2018 20897.2 1006.1
2019 21734.3 1154.1

Here, the Q4 value for 2018 is used and the Q4 value 2019 is used, but you actually subtracted the Q4 value from 2019 from the annual value of 2018. When i informed you of this error, you switched from citing the Q4 2018 value to the annual 2018 value. However, if you use : Q4 2019 nGDP - Q4 2018 nGDP : we get $21734.3 billion - $20897.2 billion = $836.5 billion. If we use : annual 2019 nGDP - annual 2018 nGDP : we get $21429.0 billion - $20580.2 billion = $848.8 billion.

The recent BEA release is clearly using annual figures:

:lamo

I'm just teaching you a very embarrassing lesson. It's not that lack of such knowledge of the data and basic analytics is something one should feel ashamed of... but you've kicked and screamed and posted interchanged values, likely because you are confused. I don't think you're sharp enough to try to push such a clearly invalid methodology. But then again, your command of the English language is surprisingly suspect. Might you be posting from some center in St. Petersburg? Not likely. You're just really confused, and took on way more than you could chew... which was a choice driven entirely by partisanship. That's the embarrassing part.

 

[Kushinator]

keep doing what you do best, name call.

Pointing out that you don't have any credibility because you routinely falsify data isn't name calling.

 

[Conservative]

Pointing out that you don't have any credibility because you routinely falsify data isn't name calling.

No, just typical left wing lies from an arrogant liberal.

 

[Conservative]

You posted the wrong calculation and it is here for everyone to see:



And not only did you post this fake data once, but you were pretty adamant about it for some time... going so far to call people liars for pointing out your error.

And yet I posted the actual BEA.gov spreadsheet showing exactly that data, you have a problem with the data, take it up with BEA. The reality however is that using your data still shows 2.7 trillion GDP growth for Trump in 3 years vs. 4.3 trillion Obama GDP growth in 8 and that 4.3 trillion includes the massive gov't stimulus which you still ignore

 

[Kushinator]

No, just typical left wing lies from an arrogant liberal.

There was no lie in my post. You continued to falsify data even after it was pointed out to you in such a way, even a 5 year old child could understand. You have zero credibility.

 

[Kushinator]

And yet I posted the actual BEA.gov spreadsheet showing exactly that data, you have a problem with the data

Do you not see that your calculation for 2019 was incorrect?

wth for Trump

DP and Dollar change
2013 16974.9
2014 17527.7 552,8
2015 18224.8 697.1
2016 18915.0 490.2
2017 19918.9 1003.9
2018 20897.2 1006.1
2019 21734.3 1154.1

You made that post... not once, but dozens upon dozens of times. You've finally threw in the towel and report the correct calculation. :lol:

 

[Conservative]

Do you not see that your calculation for 2019 was incorrect?



You made that post... not once, but dozens upon dozens of times. You've finally threw in the towel and report the correct calculation. :lol:

Yes, I made the post based upon the following

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars] Seasonally adjusted at annual rates
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: April 29, 2020 - Next Release Date May 28, 2020

Line 2018 2019
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
1 Gross domestic product 20163.2 20510.2 20749.8 20897.8 21098.8 21340.3 21542.5 21729.1

 

[Conservative]

Do you not see that your calculation for 2019 was incorrect?



You made that post... not once, but dozens upon dozens of times. You've finally threw in the towel and report the correct calculation. :lol:

What I find is your posts are complete diversions from reality in the fact that in 8 years Obama generated 4.3 trillion GDP growth, with the revised numbers you want to tout Trump generated 2.7 trillion in 3. that is 900 billion per year for three years vs. 500 billion per year for Obama and Obama's numbers include Gov't spending from the 842 billion stimulus

 

[Kushinator]

Yes, I made the post based upon the following

So do tell, when you subtract $21729.1 from $20897.8... what is your result?

Because in this post, you listed it as:

GDP growth for Trump

DP and Dollar change

2018 20897.2 1006.1
2019 21734.3 1154.1

It's not even a matter of contention that you posted a fake number. The question is, why did you continue to repost a false calculation dozens of times even after it was proven to be false (and i even explained the error)?

 

[Kushinator]

in 8 years Obama generated 4.3 trillion GDP growth, with the revised numbers you want to tout Trump generated 2.7 trillion in 3. that is 900 billion per year for three years vs. 500 billion per year for Obama and Obama's numbers include Gov't spending from the 842 billion stimulus

You've already said this, and are going on full repeat mode. I'm asking you why you would continue to post a false value even after you were shown that it was false. What does your cherry-pick have to do with my question?

 

[Conservative]

You've already said this, and are going on full repeat mode. I'm asking you why you would continue to post a false value even after you were shown that it was false. What does your cherry-pick have to do with my question?

False? What is false about at least 2.7 trillion in 3 years vs. 4.3 trillion Obama GDP growth in 8 and doesn't that 4.3 trillion include dollars from the 842 billion shovel ready job stimulus bill?

Use your numbers and it is 2.7 trillion or 900 bill per year, use my numbers and it is 3 trillion in 3 years, but far and away exceeding anything Obama generated, so back to the name calling which you are good at

 

[Kushinator]

False? What is false about

That isn't what's being conveyed... you posted a false value for nominal GDP growth in 2019. The fact is, nominal GDP growth, using quarterly measurement, grew by $831 billion in 2019.

Why did you continue to claim it grew by $1154 billion? One time... i get it, you made a mistake. Dozens upon dozens of times spanning nearly a month? That's sheer dishonesty. That's sheer stubbornness. That's sheer idiocy....

 

[Conservative]

That isn't what's being conveyed... you posted a false value for nominal GDP growth in 2019. The fact is, nominal GDP growth, using quarterly measurement, grew by $831 billion in 2019.

Why did you continue to claim it grew by $1154 billion? One time... i get it, you made a mistake. Dozens upon dozens of times spanning nearly a month? That's sheer dishonesty. That's sheer stubbornness. That's sheer idiocy....

So what economic numbers affect the American people??? I posted the spreadsheet from bea.gov, you don't like it, take it up with the Bureau of Economic Analysis

Regardless of what the GDP actual dollar growth was how much more was it than what Trump inherited? How much did Trump grow the GDP in 3 years by your numbers.

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars] Seasonally adjusted at annual rates
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: April 29, 2020 - Next Release Date May 28, 2020

Line 2018 2019 2020
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1
1 Gross domestic product 20163.2 20510.2 20749.8 20897.8 21098.8 21340.3 21542.5 21729.1 21537.9

Want me to post the Obama results for 8 years?

 

[Kushinator]

I posted the spreadsheet from bea.gov

You posted a false calculation and claimed everyone else was wrong when they corrected you for this error. Your block of text wasn't a spreadsheet, and has nothing to do with what i'm talking about.

Regardless of what the GDP actual dollar growth

So regardless of the fact that you continued to lie about economic growth, we should now listen to what you have to say about economic growth moving forward? Nope. You don't have any credibility, and therefore your opinions do not carry any value.

Want me to post the Obama results for 8 years?

No. I want you to explain why you tried to pass off a false data figure as fact. That you continue to ignore this action is actually quite telling. Remember, your posts are here for everyone to see.

 

[Conservative]

You posted a false calculation and claimed everyone else was wrong when they corrected you for this error. Your block of text wasn't a spreadsheet, and has nothing to do with what i'm talking about.



So regardless of the fact that you continued to lie about economic growth, we should now listen to what you have to say about economic growth moving forward? Nope. You don't have any credibility, and therefore your opinions do not carry any value.



No. I want you to explain why you tried to pass off a false data figure as fact. That you continue to ignore this action is actually quite telling. Remember, your posts are here for everyone to see.

I posted the spreadsheet from BEA.gov which is Treasury data. My calculations are irrelevant, those results tell the entire story. Again false data figure is your claim attempting at a gotcha moment, irrelevant as the bottom line still is what matters, Obama's GDP vs. Trump's, you tell us what your numbers show in actual GDP dollar growth?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It's already been addressed. If you took the time to read the exchange instead of quoting me in a sarcastic tone, it would have been crystal clear:

If you would get off your wounded dignity for a moment and pay attention, I rather suspect that your data is MUCH more accurate than what "Conservative" posts. What I simply have no interest in doing is taking him off "IGNORE" so that I can read through over 1,000 posts hoping that I will find the one that contains a link to what he claims is his source of data.

If you know what his claimed source of data is, I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me so that I can take a look for myself (mainly because because I suspect that his degree in statistalology is from the School of Numerology at Trump U) to see exactly HOW bad his "analysis" is and how weak is his reasoning.

If you don't know what his claimed source of data is, that's OK with me - just tell me.

The odds on you being afraid that a third party analysis of his data will prove that you are wrong are roughly equivalent to Barack Obama being elected to the office of President of the United States of America in 2020, so I'm puzzled as to why you won't share.

PS - If you want REAL "snark" (rather than my usual, placid, non-confrontational, diplomatic, style) I can provide that as well.

 

[Kushinator]

If you would get off your wounded dignity

It's already been addressed months ago. He confused annual with quarterly, got called out, and then reverted to what he has been doing for nearly a decade.

What I simply have no interest in doing is taking him off "IGNORE" so that I can read through over 1,000 posts

You wouldn't have had to. It was linked in the thread, nested into my own quote, so that even if you have him on ignore, you can see the contention.

If you know what his claimed source of data is, I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me so that I can take a look for myself

This has already been addressed in the post you've quoted. Nonetheless....

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It's already been addressed months ago. He confused annual with quarterly, got called out, and then reverted to what he has been doing for nearly a decade.

You wouldn't have had to. It was linked in the thread, nested into my own quote, so that even if you have him on ignore, you can see the contention.

This has already been addressed in the post you've quoted. Nonetheless....

Thank you, I knew what the contention was, I just didn't know the source of the data.

Thank you, I've bookmarked the page where you got your information (since I know that it will come in handy in the future) and can now see what he did. The 2019 Q$ - 2018 Q4 difference is only 837.1 and not 1,154.1. As I said, a graduate of the School of Numerology.

This is the (annual) data for the same period from the World Bank (via Trading Economics)?

YEAR​	GDP​	$ CHANGE​	% CHANGE​
2010​	4,992.050​	N/A​	N/A​
2011​	15,542.58​	+ 550.53​	+ 3.672%​
2012​	16,197.01​	+ 654.43​	+ 4.211%​
2013​	16,784.85​	+ 587.84​	+ 3.629%​
2014​	17,521.75​	+ 736.90​	+ 4.390%​
2015​	18,319.30​	+ 797.55​	+ 4.963%​
2016​	18,707.19​	+ 387.89​	+ 2.117%​
2017​	19,485.39​	+ 778.2​	+ 4.160%​
2018​	20,544.34​	+ 1058.95​	+ 5.435%​
2019​	21,200.00​	+ 655.66​	+3.191%​
2020 (Projected)​	20,500.00​	- 700.00​	- 3.302%​

You might note that 2016 is below the trend line (which I would hate to put down to economic uncertainty due to fear mongering inthe 2016 election), 2017 is a good recovery, 2018 is pretty much back on the trend line, and then we have 2019 and 2020.

 

[Kushinator]

My calculations are irrelevant

They were wrong. Furthermore, you continued to repost the wrong figure time and time again while claiming that other people were lying when they pointed it out. And we know why. You made a years worth of trash posts claiming that a decline in nominal GDP growth signals a weak economy, and refused to adhere to the reality.

Your interpretation of data is of very little value, given your propensity for both ignorance and dishonesty.

 

[Kushinator]

You might note that 2016 is below the trend line (which I would hate to put down to economic uncertainty due to fear mongering inthe 2016 election), 2017 is a good recovery, 2018 is pretty much back on the trend line, and then we have 2019 and 2020.

We've been discussing nominal GDP growth. Real economic growth must be factored for inflation. I was simply pointing out a conman's ignorance and dishonesty. As you can surely read, the data from the OP is real gross domestic product percentage change.

How strong was the Trump economy?

Conman abandoned real GDP in February of 2019 when the economy failed to achieve 3% real economic growth. Hence the shift to nominal data, which is skewed due to inflation, and isn't a valid means of historical comparison.

 

[mrjurrs]

From who? And who said we need to pay back that debt?

A variety of nations that don't have access to the Arctic, the world's newest piggy bank.

 

[Conservative]

They were wrong. Furthermore, you continued to repost the wrong figure time and time again while claiming that other people were lying when they pointed it out. And we know why. You made a years worth of trash posts claiming that a decline in nominal GDP growth signals a weak economy, and refused to adhere to the reality.

Your interpretation of data is of very little value, given your propensity for both ignorance and dishonesty.

I was wrong??? Really? What was the Obama GDP growth for 8 years and Trump's for 3?? You want to wordsmith everything rather than admit you were wrong regarding the success of the Obama Economy. You can even see from your data what Trump inherited and what he did with it but partisan liberal rhetoric trumps actual verifiable results

 

[Conservative]

We've been discussing nominal GDP growth. Real economic growth must be factored for inflation. I was simply pointing out a conman's ignorance and dishonesty. As you can surely read, the data from the OP is real gross domestic product percentage change.

How strong was the Trump economy?

Conman abandoned real GDP in February of 2019 when the economy failed to achieve 3% real economic growth. Hence the shift to nominal data, which is skewed due to inflation, and isn't a valid means of historical comparison.

Again, you focus on 3% growth ignoring the dollar growth, that is what radicals do when they are wrong, divert from what really matters!!