• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Amazon is looking for a 2nd headquarter city, a 'full equal to Seattle'

I see it going to an East Coast city with affordable suburbs, a viable public transit and a city government willing to give up the store. Sounds like Philadelphia to me.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Seriously?

Income Tax Rates

If you don't know what I am talking about, why are you bothering to reply?
Click to expand...

Income tax rates are not a huge factor for tech companies. What they look for are ares that are hip enough, and have the quality of life to attract the kind of talent they need. Lots of green space, good schools, good infrastructure, good transportation system, educated population are all much bigger factors for most tech companies than tax rates.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
NYT's says Denver......So millennials are going to deal with the altitude?

Maybe it is a way to weed out the weakest.

So what do we think about Denver?
Click to expand...

I think Denver has a good shot at it as they have an educated workforce, lots of green space, good airport, tech companies for Amazon to attract employees from. However, Denver also has some of the downsides that Seattle has in that its growing faster than its infrastructure supports, housing prices are skyrocketing, and traffic is terrible.
 
upsideguy said:
.... you have the first part of the correct. It is likely that Amazon would look for a community with a good tech infrastructure, including good schools, good quality of life and other tech companies upon which they can draw employees. If the were looking to be more central than coastal, the leading candidates, based on the aforementioned criteria would be Denver/Boulder, Salt Lake and Austin (and maybe Ann Arbor). If they wanted a favorable political climate, the would narrow the field to Denver/Boulder.
Click to expand...

The company I work had a kids book publishing office in Denver on Larimer Square up until late 2013. Denver does have a good tech infrastructure and good schools. The downsides to Denver is that its immense growth is hurting its quality of life as housing prices are skyrocketing and traffic is horrible. The mountains are right there at the western edge of the metro, but its not unusual to be stuck in stop and go traffic for 100 miles getting in and out of them. In many ways, Minneapolis has a far better quality of life - winters aside.

Kansas City is making a bid as well. I don't know how good KC's chances are. Its a very hip city these days with a good quality of life (my commute time to downtown is less than 10 minutes, we have more miles of freeway per-capita than any major city in America). We have lots of green space - over 100 miles of singletrack in the city alone, good schools in the suburbs, we are centrally located, and have a lot of tech companies to draw talent from like Garmin, Cerner, Sprint and so on. However, no ocean or mountains close by and our airport is older.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Seriously?

Income Tax Rates

If you don't know what I am talking about, why are you bothering to reply?
Click to expand...

Ah, that's all of Illinois. And it is just back to the rate it was at a couple years ago.

You can avoid it if you live in NW Indiana.

But people don't, because the extra 1% per year isn't much considering the attraction of living in Chicago proper.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Income tax rates are not a huge factor for tech companies. What they look for are ares that are hip enough, and have the quality of life to attract the kind of talent they need. Lots of green space, good schools, good infrastructure, good transportation system, educated population are all much bigger factors for most tech companies than tax rates.
Click to expand...

Not true.

LSI Logic built a brand new semiconductor facility in Gresham Oregon. They did so with a reduced tax rate from the city. Years later, when the city didn't renew lower their tax rates, they build a new fab in Malaysia and left Oregon.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Not true.

LSI Logic built a brand new semiconductor facility in Gresham Oregon. They did so with a reduced tax rate from the city. Years later, when the city didn't renew lower their tax rates, they build a new fab in Malaysia and left Oregon.
Click to expand...

I believe those would have been business and property taxes rather than income tax rates. I have a feeling Amazon is not as worried about income tax rates for their workers as they are direct taxes to Amazon.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Not true.

LSI Logic built a brand new semiconductor facility in Gresham Oregon. They did so with a reduced tax rate from the city. Years later, when the city didn't renew lower their tax rates, they build a new fab in Malaysia and left Oregon.
Click to expand...

That's a factory, the economics are totally different with a factory. LSI does not have to bring in thousands of highly skilled software developers for a factory. Moreover, taxes were most likely just the excuse with LSI. Per-capita income in Malaysia is 1/5th what it is in the United States. You could cut their taxes to nothing and they still would have moved for 1/5th the labor cost. The only way to put a stop to manufacturing going to low wage countries would be to outlaw container ships.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Income tax rates are not a huge factor for tech companies. What they look for are ares that are hip enough, and have the quality of life to attract the kind of talent they need. Lots of green space, good schools, good infrastructure, good transportation system, educated population are all much bigger factors for most tech companies than tax rates.
Click to expand...

Amazon has engaged in tax avoidance more than most tax companies. Remember when they threatened to move warehouses and shipping hubs based on taxes?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Amazon has engaged in tax avoidance more than most tax companies. Remember when they threatened to move warehouses and shipping hubs based on taxes?
Click to expand...

That's different though. Warehouses and shipping hubs are lower skilled workers. Companies try to extort all kinds of tax incentives from states and localities for facilities that employ lower skilled workers.

The economics of a highly skilled workforce is entirely different though.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
The company I work had a kids book publishing office in Denver on Larimer Square up until late 2013. Denver does have a good tech infrastructure and good schools. The downsides to Denver is that its immense growth is hurting its quality of life as housing prices are skyrocketing and traffic is horrible. The mountains are right there at the western edge of the metro, but its not unusual to be stuck in stop and go traffic for 100 miles getting in and out of them. In many ways, Minneapolis has a far better quality of life - winters aside.

Kansas City is making a bid as well. I don't know how good KC's chances are. Its a very hip city these days with a good quality of life (my commute time to downtown is less than 10 minutes, we have more miles of freeway per-capita than any major city in America). We have lots of green space - over 100 miles of singletrack in the city alone, good schools in the suburbs, we are centrally located, and have a lot of tech companies to draw talent from like Garmin, Cerner, Sprint and so on. However, no ocean or mountains close by and our airport is older.
Click to expand...

Airports are easy to upgrade, I said KC right off...i think it would be perfect, but for the fact it is smaller than they want right?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
2.3 million in the metro.
Click to expand...

OK good, then there is this:

7. Total economic development tax increment financing and subsidies: $62 million in 2010-11 vs. $75 million in 2015-16 and projected $83 million in 2016-17.
Click to expand...
Eight takeaways from Kansas City?s budget | The Kansas City Star

KC would be perfect, except for the inability to afford to host Amazon, as they want as much free swag and they can get, and tend to get showered with it...I was reading $1 billion in tax breaks and subsidies from the public purse since 2014.

Amazon's cynical search for a new headquarters
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I believe those would have been business and property taxes rather than income tax rates. I have a feeling Amazon is not as worried about income tax rates for their workers as they are direct taxes to Amazon.
Click to expand...

Taxes are taxes, and business decisions are based on such things.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
That's a factory, the economics are totally different with a factory. LSI does not have to bring in thousands of highly skilled software developers for a factory. Moreover, taxes were most likely just the excuse with LSI. Per-capita income in Malaysia is 1/5th what it is in the United States. You could cut their taxes to nothing and they still would have moved for 1/5th the labor cost. The only way to put a stop to manufacturing going to low wage countries would be to outlaw container ships.
Click to expand...

Does this mean you agree with to put tariffs on imported good to equalize and stabilize US jobs?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Does this mean you agree with to put tariffs on imported good to equalize and stabilize US jobs?
Click to expand...

No, not at all. I think a trade war would be devastating to the overall economy. My point was that low skilled jobs will go to the country that has the infrastructure in place to support the factories and has the cheapest labor. This is because container ships make it very easy to ship goods cheaply around the world. If you look at when manufacturing jobs started to be outsourced, it correlates with the advent of container ships.
 
Ask Hoffman Estates IL how those years of Tax Breaks to Sears worked out for them.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
2.3 million in the metro.
Click to expand...

OK good, then there is this:

7. Total economic development tax increment financing and subsidies: $62 million in 2010-11 vs. $75 million in 2015-16 and projected $83 million in 2016-17.
Click to expand...
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article59815481.html

KC would be perfect, except for the inability to afford to host Amazon, as they want as much free swag and they can get, and tend to get showered with it...I was reading $1 billion in tax breaks and subsidies from the public purse since 2014.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
OK good, then there is this:


Eight takeaways from Kansas City?s budget | The Kansas City Star

KC would be perfect, except for the inability to afford to host Amazon, as they want as much free swag and they can get, and tend to get showered with it...I was reading $1 billion in tax breaks and subsidies from the public purse since 2014.
Click to expand...

Kansas City has the advantage of low housing costs for a major city. However, for city revenue that is a disadvantage because it lowers property tax receipts. Houston is another major city with low housing costs, in response, they have very high property tax rates. Luckily KC has not gone that route.
 
Last edited:
Lord of Planar said:
Taxes are taxes, and business decisions are based on such things.
Click to expand...

No in the case of taxes there are taxes that are charged towards Amazon (business, property etc), and there are taxes on Amazon employees ie income taxes.

Amazon I doubt cares much about income taxes on employee's as long as the taxes are not so high as to make them demand very high wages (overall cost of living).
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
No, not at all. I think a trade war would be devastating to the overall economy. My point was that low skilled jobs will go to the country that has the infrastructure in place to support the factories and has the cheapest labor. This is because container ships make it very easy to ship goods cheaply around the world. If you look at when manufacturing jobs started to be outsourced, it correlates with the advent of container ships.
Click to expand...

If all trade was suspended, we would come out on top.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Kansas City has the advantage of low housing costs for a major city. However, for city revenue that is a disadvantage because it lowers property tax receipts. Houston is another major city with low housing costs, in response, they have very high property tax rates. Luckily KC has not gone that route.
Click to expand...

OK, But that does not address the problem of how could KC ever afford Amazon.

Is the State going to pay for the thrill?


http://theweek.com/articles/723450/amazons-cynical-search-new-headquarters
 
Last edited:
This idea that Amazon wants to set up in a Red State in the attempt to head off getting broken up has a lot of merit....
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This idea that Amazon wants to set up in a Red State in the attempt to head off getting broken up has a lot of merit....
Click to expand...

Amazon is no where near being a monopoly in any business they are in

Walmart is nearly 4 times the size of Amazon in revenues.

Only does Amazon Web Services come anywhere close to having a 50% market share in any business Amazon is in. Amazon is not going to be broken up. That is only in the dreams and thoughts of Trump supporters

Trump is only upset with Amazon because Bezos owns the WP.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom