Alleged Ft. Hood gunman may have 9/11 mosque link

[the makeout hobo]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

He was a terrorist. A latent cell that acted independently of the command structure. It's important that we view him as such.

...Source?

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

He was a terrorist. A latent cell that acted independently of the command structure. It's important that we view him as such.

You will never convince him. No matter how much evidence you give him he will still deny it.

Actually tex, you're absolutely wrong.

Show me somewhat clear evidence that he was acting as an agent of Al-Qaeda or some other terrorist organization, was spurred forward through communication with them to perform this act, that he specifically left evidence to indicate this was going to be the first of numerous in hopes of causing fear upon military bases the united states over that more is planned, etc.

There are numerous ways to have evidence that convinces me he's a terrorist.

To me Muslim who commits crime does not equal Terrorist. I know it suits your political agenda and some people on this forums bigotry to the religion in general to paint it as such, but that's not my definition. Terrorism was around long before Islam and will be around long after it. Its ignorant to tie the definition of terrorism to muslims.

To me this is no different than a Christian who attends a church of a person that says gays and abortionists are what causd 9/11 going into a gay bar or a abortion clinic and shooting up the place. That too is not someone I'd consider a "terrorist" in and of itself, I'd consider it a religiously motivated murder.

You're absolutely wrong Tex. There is evidence that will convince me. Its just not been presented yet.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

...Source?

There is no source. Its his opinion, just like its my opinion he's not a terrorist. Issue is mine is based on principle, his is based on the need to attack Obama. Saying a terrorist attack happened damages Obama more than saying a murder happened.

10 to 1 I firmly believe many of those here and in the media stressing the need to call this guy a terrorist would still be going after Islam but would be calling it a mass shooting if it was Bush that was still in office because they would want to keep saying how we've had no terrorist attack under him.

And I'd love to see anyone try to say that I'm somehow pulling for, defending, or supporting Obama's administration or that he's my "Messiah"

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

...Source?

It's a simple extrapolation of the evidence presented thus far.

We SHOULD view this man as a new kind of terrorist cell. A cell that is radicalized by the Jihadist network yet acts independently of the command structure. It's a lone-wolf tactic that is being cunningly employed by the enemy. Our worse mistake would be to view this as a simple mental breakdown.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

It's a simple extrapolation of the evidence presented thus far.

We SHOULD view this man as a new kind of terrorist cell. A cell that is radicalized by the Jihadist network yet acts independently of the command structure. It's a lone-wolf tactic that is being cunningly employed by the enemy. Our worse mistake would be to view this as a simple mental breakdown.

You realize one is able to view this as actually being partially religiously caused AND view it as a mass murder not a terrorist act....right?

Are you saying that Religious Crime = Terrorism? Or do you just hold that position for Muslim Crime = terrorism?

 

[the makeout hobo]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

It's a simple extrapolation of the evidence presented thus far.

We SHOULD view this man as a new kind of terrorist cell. A cell that is radicalized by the Jihadist network yet acts independently of the command structure. It's a lone-wolf tactic that is being cunningly employed by the enemy. Our worse mistake would be to view this as a simple mental breakdown.

Wow. That is so amazingly cunning! Or paranoid, I'm not sure. You have no evidence of such, you're just assuming so. Besides, it doesn't seem like an AQ style attack. They have traditionally gone for the BIG explosions.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

It's a simple extrapolation of the evidence presented thus far.
We SHOULD view this man as a new kind of terrorist cell. A cell that is radicalized by the Jihadist network yet acts independently of the command structure. It's a lone-wolf tactic that is being cunningly employed by the enemy. Our worse mistake would be to view this as a simple mental breakdown.

I really do often wonder...
Why havent the terrorists that -are- here gone after our schools?
Nothing like driving gasoline tankers into elemntary schools to strike abject fear in the hearts of the American people.

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

There is no source. Its his opinion, just like its my opinion he's not a terrorist. Issue is mine is based on principle, his is based on the need to attack Obama. Saying a terrorist attack happened damages Obama more than saying a murder happened.

Yea, it has nothing to do with my desire to protect this country. It has everything to do with attacking Obama...:roll:

Question: How is classifying Hassan as a terrorist an attack on Obama

10 to 1 I firmly believe many of those here and in the media stressing the need to call this guy a terrorist would still be going after Islam but would be calling it a mass shooting if it was Bush that was still in office because they would want to keep saying how we've had no terrorist attack under him.

And I'd love to see anyone try to say that I'm somehow pulling for, defending, or supporting Obama's administration or that he's my "Messiah"

He's not your Messiah, I know this; you're just jumping on the DP bandwagon. Anyway...

Initially, I thought this guy had just snapped but the evidence has overwhelmingly contradicted this. So, when contradictory evidence is presented I do what most rational people do and change my mind.

This guy was a terrorist cell. He was radicalized by the Jihadist network such that he acted independently of the command structure. This appears to be a new tactic of the enemy, one that will increase the randomness and frequency of attacks on American soil. My desire to characterize him as such has nothing to do with attacking Obama and everything to do with accurately defining the enemy and countering their tactics.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

Yea, it has nothing to do with my desire to protect this country. It has everything to do with attacking Obama...:roll:

Question: How is classifying Hassan as a terrorist an attack on Obama



He's not your Messiah, I know this; you're just jumping on the DP bandwagon. Anyway...

Initially, I thought this guy had just snapped but the evidence has overwhelmingly contradicted this. So, when contradictory evidence is presented I do what most rational people do and change my mind.

This guy was a terrorist cell. He was radicalized by the Jihadist network such that he acted independently of the command structure. This appears to be a new tactic of the enemy, one that will increase the randomness and frequency of attacks on American soil. My desire to characterize him as such has nothing to do with attacking Obama and everything to do with accurately defining the enemy and countering their tactics.

Has this happened anywhere else?

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

You realize one is able to view this as actually being partially religiously caused AND view it as a mass murder not a terrorist act....right?

Are you saying that Religious Crime = Terrorism? Or do you just hold that position for Muslim Crime = terrorism?

I never implied any of this.

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

Wow. That is so amazingly cunning!

Yes, it is. Increasing the randomness and frequency of terrorist attacks on American soil absent a formal command structure is extremely cunning.

It inhibits our ability to identify, locate, and target the enemy, which decreases our ability to prevent these kinds of attacks.

Or paranoid, I'm not sure.

Well, there IS a vast terror network that is hell-bent on destroying America...:doh

You have no evidence of such, you're just assuming so.

You can ignore the evidence if you wish. The man associated with radical Jihadists and proceeded to massacre dozens of Soldiers, but whatevs...

Besides, it doesn't seem like an AQ style attack. They have traditionally gone for the BIG explosions.

Did I say he was part of AQ? No, I didn't.

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

Has this happened anywhere else?

*cough-cough*

I said NEW tactic. Meaning that it hasn't been previously implemented.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

*cough-cough*

I said NEW tactic. Meaning that it hasn't been previously implemented.

I think you're jumping to conclusions from one single isolated incident. If it happens a few times, I'll be worried your fear is legitimate. But one is too little to draw a "new tactic" from.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

I really do often wonder...
Why havent the terrorists that -are- here gone after our schools?
Nothing like driving gasoline tankers into elemntary schools to strike abject fear in the hearts of the American people.

Because in reality fear is not the entire purpose of it. If it was, you'd be absolutely correct. At least recently, it tends to be dual messaged.

The Trade Centers was, from how they could spin it, a presentation of American Decadence and the Wests financial greed.

The Pentagon is the symbol of America's military.

While attacks on them strike fear into our population, they also appear to those that may be on the fence in other countries as potential understandable attacks and are done in such a way that for a mind that is open to such notions could think its justified by believing it wasn't just for terror but they were "striking at America's military and their financial capital".

Such can not be done as easily by blowing up a school, or even a mall due to the low scale a mall is. Such an attack would just seem blatantly done to kill, murder, and strike fear. No over arching message that those on the fence of radicalism could possibly glean out of it to rationalize their support of it. As such, it'd succeed in regards to inflicting terror but fail in regards to illiciting further support.

As whacked out and crazy as many of them are, especially the leaders, I dare say that the majority of their followers are not absolute robots. Brainwashed to a point? Yes, but not robots. Its far easier to be able to have your people justify it in your heads when your striking at the decadent symbols of their financial success and the heart of thier military than it is striking and killing a bunch of school children because they happen to be in America.

Not to say that they WON'T do those kind of attacks, they'll try to spin anything. But I just imagine that the more benefit they can get out of an attack other than just terror the higher up on the priorites list it probably goes.

Though my comment is still it amazes me that the CDC's building wouldn't be considered a target. Even if such an attack happened and they could contain any illnesses that could have been exposed during it, the natural paranoia of people would still take over for part of the population.

I never implied any of this.

You said we had to consider it a terrorist attack and couldn't consider it a just a mental break down, implying that it is only able to those two things. It could easily be viewed that jihadist tendancies played into why he did it and still not believe it was a terrorist attack.

 

[Laila]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

No it's been confirmed that he attended the same Mosque as 2 of the hijackers, what has not been confirmed is whether or not he knew them, but he for certain knew their shared radical wahhabist Iman Anwar al Awlaki and that he emailed him upto 20 times before the attacks, that's the link.

Well then the next question is, How did he get into a position of power with these links? And how the hell did he get past the FBI and authorities?

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

I think you're jumping to conclusions from one single isolated incident.

Just because the incident is singular or isolated doesn't mean my conclusion isn't based upon sound reasoning.

If it happens a few times, I'll be worried your fear is legitimate. But one is too little to draw a "new tactic" from.

I'm not saying I’m absolutely correct. I’m just saying we should at least analyze it from that perspective instead of reflexively dismissing it.

9/11 was the first attack of its kind, but that doesn't mean we had to wait for more planes to fly into big buildings before we increased airport security.

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

BYou said we had to consider it a terrorist attack and couldn't consider it a just a mental break down, implying that it is only able to those two things. It could easily be viewed that jihadist tendancies played into why he did it and still not believe it was a terrorist attack.

I said it was a terrorist attack, yes, however, I did not say that it was inextricably linked to his religious affiliation, which is what you seemed to be implying.

I'm not terribly concerned with his religious motivations in and of themselves. In the absence of his extremist affiliations I would be inclined to agree with your assessment, e.g., that he simply "snapped" and went on a rampage.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

I said it was a terrorist attack, yes, however, I did not say that it was inextricably linked to his religious affiliation, which is what you seemed to be implying.

I'm not terribly concerned with his religious motivations in and of themselves. In the absence of his extremist affiliations I would be inclined to agree with your assessment, e.g., that he simply "snapped" and went on a rampage.

I guess we're both doing the same thing to each other.

I'm not suggesting he just "snapped". Its not my assertion at all. I think its a distinct combination of his mental state, his extreme religious views, the military situation he was in, and him being shipped out shortly that all came together to cause this. I think once it was clear he was going to be sent off and that he wasn't affecting any change it was either accept it, desert, or take action and take action was the one that appeal to him most both religiously and mentally.

It just doesn't reach the level of evidence to me to suggest this was a terrorist attack rather than a mass murder brought on in part due to extreme religious views. The things that indicate something is a terrorist attack to me just haven't been fully present in this instance as of yet.

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

I guess we're both doing the same thing to each other.

I'm not suggesting he just "snapped". Its not my assertion at all. I think its a distinct combination of his mental state, his extreme religious views, the military situation he was in, and him being shipped out shortly that all came together to cause this. I think once it was clear he was going to be sent off and that he wasn't affecting any change it was either accept it, desert, or take action and take action was the one that appeal to him most both religiously and mentally.

He was the purposeful creation of Jihadi radicalism; akin to a psychological weapon whose triggering mechanism was the prospect of being sent to Iraq or Afghanistan; a latent cell that could be activated independent of the formal command structure.

The definition of "terrorism" and "terrorist" should be amenable to change because "terrorists" are not static enemies; their methods evolve constantly.

It just doesn't reach the level of evidence to me to suggest this was a terrorist attack rather than a mass murder brought on in part due to extreme religious views. The things that indicate something is a terrorist attack to me just haven't been fully present in this instance as of yet.

It certainly doesn't look like your "normal" terrorist attack but perhaps that was never the enemy's intent.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

Just because the incident is singular or isolated doesn't mean my conclusion isn't based upon sound reasoning.



I'm not saying I’m absolutely correct. I’m just saying we should at least analyze it from that perspective instead of reflexively dismissing it.

9/11 was the first attack of its kind, but that doesn't mean we had to wait for more planes to fly into big buildings before we increased airport security.

I'm still waiting to see the evidence that he was a preprogrammed sleeper. It doesn't make sense. A military base is not the best place to use a tool like this. Think about it: he was at a place surrounded by people who are trained in deadly force. A better use would have been to wait a few weeks, and send him to a mall on Black Friday. It'd be more damaging psychologically, and kill more people. There's no evidence that he was given any command, it's your deluded fantasy.

 

[kansaswhig]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

I'm still waiting to see the evidence that he was a preprogrammed sleeper. It doesn't make sense. A military base is not the best place to use a tool like this. Think about it: he was at a place surrounded by people who are trained in deadly force. A better use would have been to wait a few weeks, and send him to a mall on Black Friday. It'd be more damaging psychologically, and kill more people. There's no evidence that he was given any command, it's your deluded fantasy.

I don't think he was a sleeper. I think he self-radicalized over the years and finally decided to act. Soldiers are unarmed on the base, particularly in the administrative capacity at the SRP site that Hassan attacked. Killing Soldiers degrades our ability to wage war against Muslims in Iraq and AFG. Killing kids in the mall doesn't do as much for his cause. I think he heard a lot of stories from PTSD folks about killing Muslims and got really pissed off about it and self-radicalized.

 

[American]

Could you please provide names of those who "do not want him to be tied to jihadist" and some quote showing this as true, or are you just full of bluff and bluster as you talk out your ass about imaginary people?

Good on Lieberman to call for investigations. If the same mosque is connected to more and more of these that particular mosque should probably be looked at more closely.

You're not fair at all, you're just blind. You haven't seen the libs around here trying to make this whole thing non-terrorist? :shock: :doh

 

[Ethereal]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

I'm still waiting to see the evidence that he was a preprogrammed sleeper. It doesn't make sense. A military base is not the best place to use a tool like this. Think about it: he was at a place surrounded by people who are trained in deadly force. A better use would have been to wait a few weeks, and send him to a mall on Black Friday. It'd be more damaging psychologically, and kill more people. There's no evidence that he was given any command, it's your deluded fantasy.

You're not understanding what I'm saying and you continue to insult me. I see no reason to continue this discussion.

 

[American]

Re: Fort Hood Army Massacre Shooter Has Possible 9/11 Link

You're not understanding what I'm saying and you continue to insult me. I see no reason to continue this discussion.

What is a makeout hobo?

 

[EpicDude86]

This article made some good points on why "PC Kills". and yes I know it's a conservative rag but there are a few good examples in there.

Read it.

Interpret it with an open mind.


Then I'm sure everyone can make an educated, well rounded rebuttal as to why I'm a moron for believing that some theory thought up by Marxists to help aid in uniting the proletarians is inadvertently causing mischief.


American Thinker: Political correctness kills