Age in Heaven

[ecofarm]

True, those resurrected to heavenly life will be resurrected as spirit beings but all the resurrections performed on earth by prophets and Jesus' were of the physical...showing that some will be resurrect to a physical life on earth...

In the rise to heaven, are not our flaws wiped away? Is not an arm of doubt or a leg of sin healed and washed clean?

 

[Rich2018]

I believe the soul or spirit is our influence in this world that lives on after our physical death....

What you believe is not open to debate and is frankly irrelevant

...can you deny that you, your essence as encapsulated by your actions and words, continues after your physical death?

Yes, after I die and after you die there is nothing to suggest our "essence" carries on. We are dead, our actions and words are ended...why do you believe otherwise
What evidence do you have to show differently ?

...the good of that influence lives forever....

Prove it

What evidence do you have ?

...I've never believed anything supernatural....

Are you now saying your god is of the natural world ?
Your god has physical form and can be touched ?

...I believe God is love; literally and exclusively....

That casts down the vast majority of people for an eternity's torment in the fiery lake of hell.

Love like that we can do without

Which is it, your god is natural or supernatural ?

...I believe the entire Bible can be interpreted in this light.

LOL

Yes, you can interpret the Bible a million different ways, some religions deny that Jesus is divine and not god. Can you see how your Bible can be interpreted that way ?

 

[ecofarm]

What you believe is not open to debate and is frankly irrelevant

Then don't ask about my beliefs.

Why do you believe the invisible soul is real ? What evidence do you base your beliefs on ?

What kind of an asshole move is it to ask that and then complain when I provide a detailed answer.

Maybe I define soul differently. Maybe I see heaven differently. Perhaps my evidence is empirical. You asked. I answered. Don't like? Like I care. I didn't ask you for nothing. I know your beliefs can't influence mine.

 

[Rich2018]

Then don't ask about my beliefs.

I didn't, I asked you why you hold them.

 

[Daisy]

In the rise to heaven, are not our flaws wiped away? Is not an arm of doubt or a leg of sin healed and washed clean?

Spirit beings do not have physical bodies...those who inherit God's kingdom to become rulers with Christ over the earth will not have flesh and blood...

"But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom,"1 Corinthians 15:50

But to answer your question, yes, they will be flawless...perfect...

 

[ecofarm]

I didn't, I asked you why you hold them.

I explained my belief and why I hold it. Because you asked.

 

[Daisy]

Then don't ask about my beliefs.




What kind of an asshole move is it to ask that and then complain when I provide a detailed answer.

Maybe I define soul differently. Maybe I see heaven differently. Perhaps my evidence is empirical. You asked. I answered. Don't like? Like I care. I didn't ask you for nothing. I know your beliefs can't influence mine.

He thinks he knows it all but in reality knows nothing...

 

[ecofarm]

Spirit beings do not have physical bodies...those who inherit God's kingdom to become rulers with Christ over the earth will not have flesh and blood...

"But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom,"1 Corinthians 15:50

But to answer your question, yes, they will be flawless...perfect...

That which is presented as physical can only be interpreted spiritually, for the Bible is a spiritual work.

I'd read that, 'but I tell you, sin and greed cannot know God'.

 

[Rich2018]

...what kind of an asshole move is it to ask that and then complain when I provide a detailed answer.

Maybe I define soul differently. Maybe I see heaven differently. Perhaps my evidence is empirical. You asked. I answered. Don't like? Like I care. I didn't ask you for nothing. I know your beliefs can't influence mine.

To answer your hasty edit:

You don't provide an answer, what you believe is immaterial, why you believe it is.


Start with you "loving" god, why do you think he exists ?

 

[ecofarm]

He thinks he knows it all but in reality knows nothing...

I don't get the confrontation from him. What's that about?

That said, my "spiritual-only and non-supernatural" perspective isn't exactly the gem with the most facets.

 

[Rich2018]

He thinks he knows it all but in reality knows nothing...

Because there is nothing to know about the Christian god.

Or the god of the Muslims

Or even he god's of the Jehovah's Witnesses and the god of the Mormons


There is only belief in those biblical god(s). The question is not what you believe, as you can write War & Peace about that, the question is why you believe it without evidence,

 

[ecofarm]

Because there is nothing to know about the Christian god.

Or the god of the Muslims

Or even he god's of the Jehovah's Witnesses and the god of the Mormons

It's called the Abrahamic god. We know it's all the same dude and came up with a name for that hundreds of years ago. You might need to catch up on some of the more recent scholarly work as well.

 

[Rich2018]

I don't get the confrontation from him. What's that about?

That said, my "spiritual-only and non-supernatural" perspective isn't exactly the gem with the most facets.

"Spiritual only" and non-super-natural (ie: a natural god) are contradictory.

 

[Rich2018]

It's called the Abrahamic god. We know it's all the same dude and came up with a name for that hundreds of years ago. You might need to catch up on some of the more recent scholarly work as well.

Well some deny that the god(s) of the Bible is indeed the same entity.

As I said above, you can interpret the Bible a million different ways, some religions deny that Jesus is divine and not god. Can you see how your Bible can be interpreted that way ?

 

[ecofarm]

"Spiritual only" and non-super-natural (ie: a natural god) are contradictory.

I find most people get it. I don't go whole hog, but understand what people are talking about. See, the Bible for me is a tool of communication. It's about values, traditions, ideals, principles... Lots of important stuff. And one can learn that stuff about someone if one speaks the same language. Thus, I studied the Bible in all its interpretation. Now I have another tool in my toolbox of communication. You'd be amazed the number of people that respond positively to, "I'm atheist and believe nothing supernatural, but I fear God praise Jesus and learn from the Bible".

I was a militant atheist. Given my behavior in general, one can imagine how I was about it. But that changed. I grew up. I found a use instead of crying like an idiot.

 

[ecofarm]

Well some deny that the god(s) of the Bible is indeed the same entity.

As I said above, you can interpret the Bible a million different ways, some religions deny that Jesus is divine and not god. Can you see how your Bible can be interpreted that way ?

I don't have a problem with views. I have a problem with faulty logic or reason. If the person can explain to me what they believe and why, I consider that a favor.

 

[Guno]

All good questions. I think you are conflating stages of life together. We are on earth now. Our spiritual body is joined with our physical body. At death, the body and spirit separate. The body to the grave and the spirit to either paradise or spirit prison (of evil doers) 1Peter 3:19-20. Our spirits in paradise will reunite with our ancestors and I believe (my opinion) our spirits will look like we did while on earth prior to dying except whole. After all, the spirit isn't what has cancer or a missing limb.

Let's also remember in John 3:13, it says, "No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." We then first came down from heaven to earth meaning our spirit bodies came down and joined with our physical body. If not, we could not ascend in the resurrection with Christ because he did. So, when we die and return to paradise, we will see those we knew before coming down. A true happy reunion in paradise. Not so in Spirit Prison as much. Al though, I think there will be communication between those in the two arenas because Christ went from paradise to spirit prison and I think we will assist him in teaching and preaching to all those who did not have the opportunity to here the Word of God if we get to go to paradise. And, at some point in time, we will be resurrected as the Bible so states. Our bodies will be made incorruptible. Some more glorious than others 1Corinthians chapter 15. The earthly age that we will be? Unknown but not a hair on our heads will be lost. Nor will it matter as there will be no more vanity.

There is another part of your questioning that seems to belong more during the Millennium. The 1,000 years or so in which Satan will be bound and the Lord's work can be finished. People won't die during that period. There may be births as well. During that time period, perhaps those who didn't have the opportunity to be tested will be raised by goodly parents still on the earth. But, at the end of the 1,000 years, Satan will be loosed and the children will have the opportunity to choose for themselves good or evil. And, shortly after, the battle of God and Magog will happen and then the earth will be raised to its Celestial Glory. The only other thing is that children who died prior to the Millennium before they were old enough to be held accountable for their sins will be resurrected to the highest glory of all. They were they with Gabriel who ushered out Lucifer and his fallen angels from heaven promised not to be harmed spiritually by Lucifer while here on earth.

That's the christian view, not found anywhere in Torah, G-D is all and everywhere, nothing exists outside of G-D



Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God.

Throughout the Torah, Satan challenges God to test the true loyalty of his followers, including Adam and Eve, as well as Abraham. However, Satan remains inferior to God and is incapable of taking action on mortals without God’s permission.

The Christian religion is of duality not G-D of one




in Jewish Biblical literature Satan is not seen a fallen angel or some rebel on the loose trying to overpower G-d. Most Aggadic references to Satan in the Talmud see a more independent being but still one who tests our heroes (a rewrite of the story of Abraham shows Satan in this light). The Torah says that G-d is all-powerful so a challenge by Satan does not make sense. The G-d vs Satan/Lucifer idea present in some forms of Christianity lends itself to a more dualistic approach. Many scholars believe that both early Christianity were heavily influenced by the Zoroastrian idea of dualism.

 

[Daisy]

That which is presented as physical can only be interpreted spiritually, for the Bible is a spiritual work.

I'd read that, 'but I tell you, sin and greed cannot know God'.

But humans are physical...Adam and Eve knew God before they sinned because they were flawless...perfect...

 

[Daisy]

I don't get the confrontation from him. What's that about?

That said, my "spiritual-only and non-supernatural" perspective isn't exactly the gem with the most facets.

Beats me...at any rate, I don't bother with people who act like asses...

 

[Guno]

Well some deny that the god(s) of the Bible is indeed the same entity.

As I said above, you can interpret the Bible a million different ways, some religions deny that Jesus is divine and not god. Can you see how your Bible can be interpreted that way ?

strange how christians who don't read Hebrew can claim knowledge of Torah using it to prove their man god, the christian bible is a bad mis translation of what they call their "new testament"

 

[ecofarm]

But humans are physical...Adam and Eve knew God before they sinned because they were flawless...perfect...

I don't think I mean to be sophomoric with you, but if in the end we are not then are we.

Beats me...at any rate, I don't bother with people who act like asses...

And yet you tolerate me. You might not know it, but that's odd. Metaphysical expression might be the one subject I'm rarely an ass. Others, I swing my ass around as if it smells like flowers. Perhaps metexpression is too universal to crap on. When it comes down to it, we all believe things we can't prove. I dunno if the what or the why is more important.

 

[Daisy]

I don't think I mean to be sophomoric with you, but if in the end we are not then are we.



And yet you tolerate me. You might not know it, but that's odd. Metaphysical expression might be the one subject I'm rarely an ass. Others, I swing my ass around as if it smells like flowers. Perhaps metexpression is too universal to crap on. When it comes down to it, we all believe things we can't prove. I dunno if the what or the why is more important.

Well, I believe in the end, we'll be restored to perfection, just as Adam and Eve were...after all, that was God's original purpose for mankind...to live forever on a paradise earth...the only stipulation was to look to their Creator for guidance, not to depend on their own understanding...only then would they die...and they failed...Gods' purpose will be fulfilled for mankind and the earth...Isaiah 55:11...

The earth was created to remain forever...Psalm 78:69; 104:5; 119:90; Ecclesiastes 1:4...God’s purpose for the earth to be the inhabited by man in perfection and happiness with everlasting life view.​..Psalm 37:11; 115:16; Isaiah 45:18; Revelation 21:3, 4...

As to your 2nd point, you've always been cordial to me, I've not seen the underside/other side of you...:giggle1:

 

[Rich2018]

strange how christians who don't read Hebrew can claim knowledge of Torah using it to prove their man god, the christian bible is a bad mis translation of what they call their "new testament"

They use a translated bible - like the King James.

 

[Rich2018]

I don't have a problem with views. I have a problem with faulty logic or reason. If the person can explain to me what they believe and why, I consider that a favor.

I've noticed that people who come to your house to speak of their beliefs almost never want to discus yours.

I was asking why you believe what you believe and if your Bible can be interpreted to mean Jesus was not divine - ie: he was a god.

 

[ecofarm]

I've noticed that people who come to your house to speak of their beliefs almost never want to discus yours.

I was asking why you believe what you believe and if your Bible can be interpreted to mean Jesus was not divine - ie: he was a god.

They don't seem to have a problem with me and mine.

I don't have a problem with that belief.