African migrants forcibly given birth control injections [W:73]

[RabidAlpaca]

Again, anyone who criticizes the government? No. Those who use Israel as a form to express anti Jewish sentiments? Yes.

I notice you shadow edited your first post calling us anti-semites to a vague "anti Jewish sentiment". Still a synonym because you're incapable of arguing the actual points of the thread, only slinging cheap insults.

Anti-Israeli =/= Anti-Jew

You've made a connection that doesn't exist because you constantly victimize yourself.

 

[Apocalypse]

SOME families of Jews have been living in Israel for a long time. That does not give every Jew on earth a birthright to land in Israel. Palestinian families go back thousands of years in Israel as well but you're a hyper racist so you deny their claim while supporting the relocation of a Ukrainian Jew who's never been to Israel to move onto Palestinian land. Detach your political opinions from the ethnicity of the person being talked about and we won't call you out for being an ethnocentric racist.

Being ethnically Jewish does not give you a birthright to land any more than me being ethnically Scottish doesn't give me a right to move in and set up shop in Scottland at the expense of the locals.

My family has been here for thousands of years personally so your conclusive claim that Jews aren't native to the land was another sad attempt to attack Jews and deny their history. That doesn't mean that the family of others who were banished to Europe from Israel by foreign conquerors don't have a right to return to the land and indeed they practiced it when Israel made it a law to grant them citizenship.
Spain also has a law that grants citizenship to families of Jews who were kicked out of Spain. Among those who take advantage of the Israeli law are people who are neither Jewish in their ethnicity or religion, last time that was explained to you you chose not to respond because obviously it shows how empty your remarks are and how futile your attempts to deny Jewish history are.

If Japan was invaded today and 99% of Japanese kicked to Europe and elsewhere from there that doesn't mean that in a 1000 years from now the offspring of the people kicked will have no right to return to their homeland if a Japanese nation is formed again there and a law is made there that allows them to become citizens. The facts are as such: Israel was formed. Israel grants this citizenship as a law. There's nothing wrong with that unless looked at from the antisemitic point of view that doesn't see Jews as a people and as beings that deserve to exist at all.

 

[Apocalypse]

I notice you shadow edited your first post calling us anti-semites to a vague "anti Jewish sentiment". Still a synonym because you're incapable of arguing the actual points of the thread, only slinging cheap insults.

Anti-Israeli =/= Anti-Jew

You've made a connection that doesn't exist because you constantly victimize yourself.

Those who are obsessed with anti-Israeli sentiments are indeed antisemitic. That's not criticizing Israel, that's being obsessed with a nation due to the people it's identified with.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

My family has been here for thousands of years personally so your conclusive claim that Jews aren't native to the land was another sad attempt to attack Jews and deny their history. That doesn't mean that the family of others who were banished to Europe from Israel by foreign conquerors don't have a right to return to the land and indeed they practiced it when Israel made it a law to grant them citizenship.
Spain also has a law that grants citizenship to families of Jews who were kicked out of Spain. Among those who take advantage of the Israeli law are people who are neither Jewish in their ethnicity or religion, last time that was explained to you you chose not to respond because obviously it shows how empty your remarks are and how futile your attempts to deny Jewish history are.

If Japan was invaded today and 99% of Japanese kicked to Europe and elsewhere from there that doesn't mean that in a 1000 years from now the offspring of the people kicked will have no right to return to their homeland if a Japanese nation is formed again there and a law is made there that allows them to become citizens. The facts are as such: Israel was formed. Israel grants this citizenship as a law. There's nothing wrong with that unless looked at from the antisemitic point of view that doesn't see Jews as a people and as beings that deserve to exist at all.

I'd take your little example seriously if you applied it equally to the Palestinians. Their ancestors were here too, so it's their land as well. You reject their right to even exist because you put race over everything. I want you two equal, warring desert tribes to stfu and coexist. You only want domination over them. Being against Israeli politics is not Anti-Jew, no matter how much you want it to be. You'll have to make your points with facts instead of emotion.

Don't you think it's kind of pathetic that the guy who thinks Jews are racially superior to Arabs is calling the guy who thinks you're both equal a racist? Man, the irony.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Those who are obsessed with anti-Israeli sentiments are indeed antisemitic. That's not criticizing Israel, that's being obsessed with a nation due to the people it's identified with.

Yet you regularly tell me how Palestinians don't have a right to exist at all and it's all you ever talk about here. Racist much?

How can you call them out for not recognizing your right to exist when you don't recognize theirs? Wildly hypocritical.

 

[Apocalypse]

I'd take your little example seriously if you applied it equally to the Palestinians. Their ancestors were here too, so it's their land as well. You reject their right to even exist because you put race ever everything. I want you two equal, warring desert tribes to stfu and coexist. You only want domination over them. Being against Israeli politics is not Anti-Jew, no matter how much you want it to be. You'll have to make your points with facts instead of emotion.

Your refusal to understand what is being told to you is exactly why I'm not wasting too much time on making posts such as #77 in this thread. I'm way too experienced to realize and recognize what is driving the obsession with anti-Israeli views. When someone simply wants to criticize a move by a government of a nation it looks completely different, we have countless of threads discussing other nations on this forum for that to become crystal clear.

 

[Apocalypse]

Yet you regularly tell me how Palestinians don't have a right to exist at all and it's all you ever talk about here. Racist much?

How can you call them out for not recognizing your right to exist when you don't recognize theirs? Wildly hypocritical.

Accuse me of claiming the planet is flat while you're at it. Whenever you realize the reality of what I'm saying you convince yourself that just throwing accusations will make it all fine.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Your refusal to understand what is being told to you is exactly why I'm not wasting too much time on making posts such as #77 in this thread. I'm way too experienced to realize and recognize what is driving the obsession with anti-Israeli views. When someone simply wants to criticize a move by a government of a nation it looks completely different, we have countless of threads discussing other nations on this forum for that to become crystal clear.

When you admit the Palestinians have the same right to exist you do, I'll take your whining and race baiting seriously.

 

[Apocalypse]

When you admit the Palestinians have the same right to exist you do, I'll take your whining and race baiting seriously.

The Palestinians have a right to exist. Now what? You're going to admit that the anti-Israeli obsession is rooted in antisemitism? Didn't think so. You're just moving the goalpost every single time. These so-called "discussions" are an infinite loop.

Express anti-Jewish sentiments through "criticism of Israel" -> Deny it -> make baseless accusations regardless of what the other side ever said to just continue the discussion until he tires and leaves.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

The Palestinians have a right to exist. Now what? You're going to admit that the anti-Israeli obsession is rooted in antisemitism? Didn't think so. You're just moving the goalpost every single time. These so-called "discussions" are an infinite loop.

Oh my god... You actually admitted it. You spend every waking moment telling us Palestine isn't a country and that all of Israel belongs to the Jews, but now you're finally admitting both sides are human and have a right to exist. This is really progress.

So when can we start the two state solution? You're willing to compromise and coexist with your neighbors, right? That's all I'd like to see. Now say it with me "Palestine is a country too and I'm ready to share the land we both cherish."

 

[Apocalypse]

Oh my god... You actually admitted it. You spend every waking moment telling us Palestine isn't a country and that all of Israel belongs to the Jews, but now you're finally admitting both sides are human and have a right to exist. This is really progress.

So when can we start the two state solution? You're willing to compromise and coexist with your neighbors, right? That's all I'd like to see. Now say it with me "Palestine is a country too and I'm ready to share the land we both cherish."

Huh? This merely goes to show how clueless you are regarding the positions of the people you're arguing with. I've been here for nearly 9 years, go look at my earliest posts and tell me if I ever expressed anything other than a belief in the two-states solution, I always held the moral high ground in my discussions with the anti-Israel obsessed crowd. It's also moving the goalpost again as your issue here in this thread from the start has been something that is irrelevant to the I/P conflict - your belief that Israel shouldn't grant offspring of Jews an automatic citizenship.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Huh? This merely goes to show how clueless you are regarding the positions of the people you're arguing with. I've been here for nearly 9 years, go look at my earliest posts and tell me if I ever expressed anything other than a belief in the two-states solution, I always held the moral high ground in my discussions with the anti-Israel obsessed crowd. It's also moving the goalpost again as your issue here in this thread from the start has been something that is irrelevant to the I/P conflict - your belief that Israel shouldn't grant offspring of Jews an automatic citizenship.

You've specifically told me Palestine is not a country. Are you denying you said this? If you don't recognize their country, you do not recognize their right to exist. This was your standard for Palestinians. They don't recognize Israel as a country so you whine about them not believing you have a right to exist. It goes both ways, chief.

The difference between you and me is that with you everything is about race. I don't wrap up in my identity on the history and accomplishments of my race or ancestors. I don't give two flying ****s where my ancestors 2,000 years ago lived, it has nothing to do with me as a person or where I live now. None of their decisions, accomplishments, land ownership or failures have anything to do with me. I'm an individual, not part of a collective. Once you realize this you'll recognize that Palestinians are just like you, only a little browner. If I as a liberal atheist can coexist with Christian conservatives you can coexist with a few Arabs.

Respect your neighbor and stop pretending the history of your ancestors defines you as a person. It doesn't. You're an individual and so are they. Race is a construct people like you use to divide us up. I don't deserve land in the dozens of countries my ancestors once lived.

Guess what, I don't think every white Christian on earth deserves automatic US citizenship either. That would just be stupid and racist.

 

[Chagos]

If one could get away from the mutual accusations of racism as well as from the issue that is basically I/P and thus has its very own EXCLUSIVE sub forum, one might actually get around to addressing (what has actually been done before) the fact that the premise voiced in the OP (and the article it cites) is a load of bovine manure.

That premise being intentionally to transport the idea that Israeli authorities have gone "Dr. Mengele".

By (the article) making the idiotic equation of

a) contraception of a temporary nature amounting to sterilization, and

b) the JDC (Joint Distribution Centre) having applied such contraception forcibly

The whole shebang, while fueled by a Ha'aretz article, is rooted in a TV broadcast called "vacuum" that was hosted by journalist Gal Gabai, who in the course of it all showed herself to be the incarnation of (kindly put) shoddy journalism, with her ignoring any information to the contrary, and placing words in the mouths of her interviewees, relentlessly pushing her pre-determined and unsubstantiated thesis that the coerced injections of Depo-Provera, a contraception shot which lasts three months, led to a 50 percent decrease in the birth rate among Ethiopian immigrants in the last decade.

That Ha'aretz itself has long since corrected its original statement has gone as unnoticed as the fact that in many African countries a contraceptive injection (rather than the pill or use of condoms) is the preferred method and that would include Ethiopia in that list of countries. Primarily because it allows women to choose without the male partner (husband or other) "knowing".

Work than one out by yourselves.

One can and indeed may wonder why this over 5 year old item has again found its way into here but can also suspect that in this digital era, where falsehoods long outlast yellowed news clippings, the lie about Israel’s sterilization of Ethiopians will doubtless become another weapon in the arsenal used by extremists to delegitimize the Jewish state.

 

[HowardBThiname]

You clearly have a problem with reading comprehension. The story wasn't debunked. The government said they found no proof. I dont believe them since they always cover things up.

As far as your silly accusations of antisemitism, refer to my response to the person above.

It certainly was debunked, and the very paper you said was the one to rely upon, printed the correction. There was no evidence that the bogus claim was ever determined to happen. No one ever came forward later to show that there was anything credible to the claims.

Go ahead -- drag that dead pony out to the corral and keep beating it -- it's never going to get up and run.

 

[HowardBThiname]

If one could get away from the mutual accusations of racism as well as from the issue that is basically I/P and thus has its very own EXCLUSIVE sub forum, one might actually get around to addressing (what has actually been done before) the fact that the premise voiced in the OP (and the article it cites) is a load of bovine manure.

That premise being intentionally to transport the idea that Israeli authorities have gone "Dr. Mengele".

By (the article) making the idiotic equation of

a) contraception of a temporary nature amounting to sterilization, and

b) the JDC (Joint Distribution Centre) having applied such contraception forcibly

The whole shebang, while fueled by a Ha'aretz article, is rooted in a TV broadcast called "vacuum" that was hosted by journalist Gal Gabai, who in the course of it all showed herself to be the incarnation of (kindly put) shoddy journalism, with her ignoring any information to the contrary, and placing words in the mouths of her interviewees, relentlessly pushing her pre-determined and unsubstantiated thesis that the coerced injections of Depo-Provera, a contraception shot which lasts three months, led to a 50 percent decrease in the birth rate among Ethiopian immigrants in the last decade.

That Ha'aretz itself has long since corrected its original statement has gone as unnoticed as the fact that in many African countries a contraceptive injection (rather than the pill or use of condoms) is the preferred method and that would include Ethiopia in that list of countries. Primarily because it allows women to choose without the male partner (husband or other) "knowing".

Work than one out by yourselves.

One can and indeed may wonder why this over 5 year old item has again found its way into here but can also suspect that in this digital era, where falsehoods long outlast yellowed news clippings, the lie about Israel’s sterilization of Ethiopians will doubtless become another weapon in the arsenal used by extremists to delegitimize the Jewish state.

Excellent post.

 

[Apocalypse]

You've specifically told me Palestine is not a country. Are you denying you said this? If you don't recognize their country, you do not recognize their right to exist. This was your standard for Palestinians. They don't recognize Israel as a country so you whine about them not believing you have a right to exist. It goes both ways, chief.

The difference between you and me is that with you everything is about race. I don't wrap up in my identity on the history and accomplishments of my race or ancestors. I don't give two flying ****s where my ancestors 2,000 years ago lived, it has nothing to do with me as a person or where I live now. None of their decisions, accomplishments, land ownership or failures have anything to do with me. I'm an individual, not part of a collective. Once you realize this you'll recognize that Palestinians are just like you, only a little browner. If I as a liberal atheist can coexist with Christian conservatives you can coexist with a few Arabs.

Respect your neighbor and stop pretending the history of your ancestors defines you as a person. It doesn't. You're an individual and so are they. Race is a construct people like you use to divide us up. I don't deserve land in the dozens of countries my ancestors once lived.

Guess what, I don't think every white Christian on earth deserves automatic US citizenship either. That would just be stupid and racist.

Christian is religion, not nationality. That was already made clear to you and the "discussions" with you are an infinite loop.
Refer to post #77 for an explanation and until you feel like actually understanding what is being said don't try and create new false analogies.
The PLO declared an independent state of Palestine back in 1988 with Jerusalem its capital. Jerusalem is part of Israel, so it's a funny declaration. Germany, France, Austria, the US, Canada, the UK and others don't recognize a state of Palestine because it didn't come as a result of negotiations between the two parties. That doesn't mean that the UK, Austria, Germany, the US and others don't believe in a two-states solution and wouldn't recognize a state of Palestine that will be established as a result of negotiations. Likewise you cannot expect Israel to recognize a state that was declared by the Palestinians on their own claim with lands that aren't under their control or claim just because they declared so. If the Palestinians negotiate a deal that will grant them lands and then declare a country on that land it will be recognized not just by Israel but by everyone else as well.

The difference between you and me is first of all ignorance. Secondly it's morality. Thirdly our intentions.

 

[DarkWizard12]

What's your point here? Everyone is racist so its okay to be one?

I don't think it's ok to put high expectations on people the world has victimized time and time again. We don't expect black people to love white people, why then do you expect it from others? I don't think it's the Israelis that are the pathetic ones here. They're just trying to be a state, and grow, and make mistakes, as they come. You must expect them to be effing angels or something.

 

[Apocalypse]

I don't think it's ok to put high expectations on people the world has victimized time and time again. We don't expect black people to love white people, why then do you expect it from others? I don't think it's the Israelis that are the pathetic ones here. They're just trying to be a state, and grow, and make mistakes, as they come. You must expect them to be effing angels or something.

Not an expectation to be angels but a determined wish for them to be painted as devils. There's an ocean sized difference between the two.

 

[PoS]

Again, anyone who criticizes the government? No. Those who use Israel as a form to express anti Jewish sentiments? Yes.

Again. You have proclaimed Haaretz as run by a bunch of self hating Jews and implied they're racist to their own kind. Now all of a sudden your'e backtracking ... again.

It certainly was debunked, and the very paper you said was the one to rely upon, printed the correction. There was no evidence that the bogus claim was ever determined to happen. No one ever came forward later to show that there was anything credible to the claims.

Go ahead -- drag that dead pony out to the corral and keep beating it -- it's never going to get up and run.

Quote me the line in that article that says Haaretz retracts the story and I'll shut up.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Quote me the line in that article that says Haaretz retracts the story and I'll shut up.

They didn't "retract" the story -- they "corrected" it. The original story came from an anti-Israel talk show host who twisted the words of Ethopian women for her own bogus story. The story grew legs and an investigation was launched. To be on the safe side, doctors were instructed NOT to give Ethopian women any Depo-provara unless they were positive the women understood what they were taking.

The injections were available to all women, no matter the race, and still are. So yes, Ethopian women were given the injections, just as Israeli women were, and still are -- but no one forced anyone nor were the injections ever given a way to stay in the country.

It's beyond belief (in my opinion) that any thinking person would still pursue the debunked stories after learning the truth of the matter.

You've been told. You've had numerous links presented and still you cling to the falsehood.

I don't think you have any wiggle-room left to deny antisemitism.

 

[PoS]

They didn't "retract" the story -- they "corrected" it. The original story came from an anti-Israel talk show host who twisted the words of Ethopian women for her own bogus story. The story grew legs and an investigation was launched. To be on the safe side, doctors were instructed NOT to give Ethopian women any Depo-provara unless they were positive the women understood what they were taking.

The injections were available to all women, no matter the race, and still are. So yes, Ethopian women were given the injections, just as Israeli women were, and still are -- but no one forced anyone nor were the injections ever given a way to stay in the country.

It's beyond belief (in my opinion) that any thinking person would still pursue the debunked stories after learning the truth of the matter.

You've been told. You've had numerous links presented and still you cling to the falsehood.

I don't think you have any wiggle-room left to deny antisemitism.

So there is no retraction. Noted. And ranting falsely about antisemitism once more to stifle debate. Noted again.

 

[HowardBThiname]

So there is no retraction. Noted. And ranting falsely about antisemitism once more to stifle debate. Noted again.

Your refusal to accept the corrected article, which debunks your story is duly noted.

You've just lost any credibility you might have had in claiming your position is not borne of antisemitism.

 

[Fenton Lum]

But WAIT! Israel NEVER does anything wrong!!!!! We MUST keep sending them billions of taxpayer dollars every year - because they're FAR more important than paying the people who teach our kids or take care of our elderly parents!

• Israeli arms sales to Europe grew from $724M in 2014 to $1.63B in 2015
• Although the size of New Jersey Israel is one of the top 10 arms dealing nations in the world
• Israel produces 60% of all drones worldwide and sells to over 50 countries, at times selling to both sides of a given conflict, and Israel fueled the drones arms race between India and Pakistan

Palestine is an open air weapons testing and crowd control laboratory with Palestinians being used in the development phase; Gaza is a lab of mass destruction. US super bunker busters were supplied to the Israelis in 2014 and investors stock shot up; war is just business after all.

The “War in Terror” has been a boon to the industry, you’ve seen what amounts to advertisement in every “news” outlet, we are being whipped up into a frenzy once again. The industry also pioneers crowd control research on the Palestinians, and Israel is involved in the training of American forces and law enforcement. We see this in the militarization of our own police departments, Ferguson was but one example of how our system is prepping to Palestinianize our own population, and in fact Ferguson now has Israeli developed/sold skunk spray post the Ferguson events, although no incidents have yet been reported of use on American streets. It’s pretty clear that the Israeli occupation style power structure is moving toward the same in America; a warehousing of the poor in a post industrial age with diminishing living wage jobs and privatized for profit prisons complete with a return to convict leasing.

Much of the security monitoring and mass surveillance technologies are also produced in Israel and sold across the globe. “Targeted assassination” was invented in Israel, which Obama was quite fond of. Abu Ghraib torture methods? Israel.

The US and Israel are not allies. The US and Israeli arms dealers are allies, and war is the business they are both in. We are all collateral damage.

 

[PoS]

Your refusal to accept the corrected article, which debunks your story is duly noted.

You've just lost any credibility you might have had in claiming your position is not borne of antisemitism.

Keep trolling, because thats all you can do. The article wasnt corrected, it was a follow up stating that the authorities claimed there was no proof. but keep making it about me so you can rack up more points.

 

[Apocalypse]

Again. You have proclaimed Haaretz as run by a bunch of self hating Jews and implied they're racist to their own kind. Now all of a sudden your'e backtracking ... again.

Ha'aretzs is a far-left paper and some of its writers are self-hating Jews like Amira Hass and Gideon Levy, in addition the fact remains that those who are obsessed with anti-Israeli sentiments do so out of antisemitism. The two claims aren't mutually exclusive.