A Religious Animal

[Angel]

Er, no.

Men & women imagined (often with the use of hallucinogens) 'magic' explanations for things they couldnt understand and sometimes imagined a higher, unseen authority that engineered such things.

This is my account in your words, Lursa.

They also made rules that served the greater good of the tribe. In order to coerce or convince the tribe to obey these laws, they also invented the higher, unseen authority and then invented or used random events to create an atmosphere of fear and magic and attributed *giving and taking* (lives, sustanence, rain, etc) to the higher authority. A number of things along these lines.

The rules eventually became religious precepts and laws.

This all came later.

I don't think we're disagreeing. Unless you insist, of course.

 

[Lursa]

This is my account in your words, Lursa.


This all came later.

I don't think we're disagreeing. Unless you insist, of course.

Not really, I described a process (and while you may have meant that, your wording seemed more like it was pre-emptive).

Also, the solutions they came up with were not motivated by some religious impulse, they were born out of necessity and creativity and innovation. Not all these solutions ended up with a base in religion or higher authority either.

 

[Daisy]

Angel, I've been thinking about this thread ever since you started it and I think I get what you are saying...take birds, for instance...when they wake up in the morning, they'll chip for awhile and then they fly off looking for food...in the evening they return to their roosts, chirp a little more, and then go to sleep...in certain seasons they mate, lay eggs, and raise their young...other animals follow a similarly predictable pattern...

We humans are different...true, we eat, sleep, and reproduce, but most of us are not content with just those things...we want to know why we are here...we seek meaning in our lives...we also desire a hope for the future...these deeper needs point to a quality that is unique to humankind...spirituality, or the need and capacity for spiritual things...

We all are born with a spiritual need, the fact that Cain and Abel both put forth efforts to worship God, proves that...only one worshipped in the right way, the other in the wrong way...showing us all, there's a right way and a wrong way...

Jesus also referred to man's spiritual need, the only thing is, not all are aware of that need...those who are benefit greatly...

“Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need,” Matthew 5:3

 

[Angel]

...
We humans are different...true, we eat, sleep, and reproduce, but most of us are not content with just those things...we want to know why we are here...we seek meaning in our lives...we also desire a hope for the future...these deeper needs point to a quality that is unique to humankind...spirituality, or the need and capacity for spiritual things...

We all are born with a spiritual need...

You say it better than I did, Elvira. A need and a capacity for Spirituality, for a connection with God.
Much obliged for your eloquent post.

 

[blarg]

And in your world a human being's immune system is not essential or characteristic of human being? C'mon, blarg.

to most it is but its not an inherent part of being human if you have a human without it

 

[blarg]

In your scenario primitive man assembled and brainstormed and came up with religion.
In my scenario primitive man had religious impulses and these later proved beneficial to his survival.

Which scenario seems more plausible to you?

seems like you could cram both into 1 scenario

 

[Angel]

seems like you could cram both into 1 scenario

Maybe you could. Good luck.

 

[Angel]

William James (1842-1912)

"Religion, whatever it is, is a man's total reaction upon life."
The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature (1902)




...​

​

 

[Angel]

Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941)


THE RELIGION OF MAN
THE HILBERT LECTURES FOR 1930

CHAPTER X
MAN'S NATURE

FROM the time when Man became truly conscious of his own self he also became conscious of a mysterious spirit of unity which found its manifestation through him in his society. It is a subtle medium of relationship between individuals, which is not for any utilitarian purpose but for its own ultimate truth, not a sum of arithmetic but a value of life. Somehow Man has felt that this comprehensive spirit of unity has a divine character which could claim the sacrifice of all that is individual in him, that in it dwells his highest meaning transcending his limited self, representing his best freedom.

Man's reverential loyalty to this spirit of unity is expressed in his religion; it is symbolized in the names of his deities. That is why, in the beginning, his gods were tribal gods, even gods of the different communities belonging to the same tribe. With the extension of the consciousness of human unity his God became revealed to him as one and universal, proving that the truth of human unity is the truth of Man's God.
https://archive.org/stream/religionofmanbei027987mbp/religionofmanbei027987mbp_djvu.txt

 

[Chagos]

~.........................We humans are different...true, we eat, sleep, and reproduce, but most of us are not content with just those things...we want to know why we are here...we seek meaning in our lives...we also desire a hope for the future...these deeper needs point to a quality that is unique to humankind...spirituality, or the need and capacity for spiritual things...............~

Your simply saying so does not suffice.

Plenty of people go searching and finding answers outside of any field of spirituality.

 

[Angel]

Your simply saying so does not suffice.

Plenty of people go searching and finding answers outside of any field of spirituality.

Likewise then your simply saying "your simply saying so does not suffice" does not suffice.

There is nothing outside spirituality.

 

[Daisy]

Likewise then your simply saying "your simply saying so does not suffice" does not suffice.

There is nothing outside spirituality.

That explains why he's got nothin'...

 

[Chagos]

Likewise then your simply saying "your simply saying so does not suffice" does not suffice.

There is nothing outside spirituality.

Not just in my experience you'd be wrong in claiming that what is the case for you must thus be the case for everybody else.

Nice quote mining BTW but no idea what you hope to achieve by cannibalizing a post you respond to.

 

[Chagos]

That explains why he's got nothin'...

Posts such as these seem to be a confirmation that any debate appears to put you out of your depth altogether.

If you can't contribute anything meaningful, what makes you think that ad hominems serve as a substitute?

Okay, just for the hell of it, seeing how you make a claim and even state having an explanation for it, provide your proof.

 

[Angel]

Not just in my experience you'd be wrong in claiming that what is the case for you must thus be the case for everybody else.

It's the case universally, Chagos. Like the force of gravity. Only gravity is also part of Spirit.

Nice quote mining BTW but no idea what you hope to achieve by cannibalizing a post you respond to.

So quoting someone is cannibalizing in the world according to Chagos, is it?
Anyway, the hope was something along the lines of cleverness, to dispel your quandary.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

It's the case universally, Chagos. Like the force of gravity. Only gravity is also part of Spirit..

Yet more magical thinking and unsupported bare assertions. Are you sure you're clicking your heels together three times when saying that?

You never seem to tire of laughably dishonest word games. And consistency is clearly important.

 

[Chagos]

It's the case universally, Chagos. Like the force of gravity. Only gravity is also part of Spirit.


So quoting someone is cannibalizing in the world according to Chagos, is it?
Anyway, the hope was something along the lines of cleverness, to dispel your quandary.

Well, "failed" is all I can say.

Both on account of (firstly) the claim and (secondly) the attempt.

 

[Angel]

Yet more magical thinking and unsupported bare assertions. Are you sure you're clicking your heels together three times when saying that?

You never seem to tire of laughably dishonest word games. A consistency is important.

Well, "failed" is all I can say.

Both on account of (firstly) the claim and (secondly) the attempt.

You guys are very funny. Really. May be time to reboot the old comedy team concept. You know, like Abbott and Costello, Martin and Lewis.

Tanngrisnir and Chagos.

Has a ring to it, yes?

On topic: if spirituality is terra incognita to you fine fellows, I encourage you to go against the grain and read the excerpt from Tagore posted above at #84. It may help you understand.
Peace, brothers.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

You guys are very funny. Really. May be time to reboot the old comedy team concept. You know, like Abbott and Costello, Martin and Lewis.

Tanngrisnir and Chagos.

Has a ring to it, yes?

On topic: if spirituality is terra incognita to you fine fellows, I encourage you to go against the grain and read the excerpt from Tagore posted above at #84. It may help you understand.
Peace, brothers.

What's funny is the conceit that you try and pass off that you're at all interested in honest, rational discussion. You are brazenly dishonest and yet you clearly yearn to be taken seriously on what appears to be a pathological level.

"Gravity is spirit'.

Yeah, buddy.

Spirituality isn't terra incognita to me, but I woudn't expect someone like you to whom honesty is to under understand that.

 

[Chagos]

What's funny is the conceit that you try and pass off that you're at all interested in honest, rational discussion. You are brazenly dishonest and yet you clearly yearn to be taken seriously on what appears to be a pathological level.

"Gravity is spirit'.

Yeah, buddy.

Spirituality isn't terra incognita to me, but I woudn't expect someone like you to whom honesty is to under understand that.

Thanks, that saves me having to reply at all.

 

[Daisy]

You guys are very funny. Really. May be time to reboot the old comedy team concept. You know, like Abbott and Costello, Martin and Lewis.

Tanngrisnir and Chagos.

Has a ring to it, yes?

On topic: if spirituality is terra incognita to you fine fellows, I encourage you to go against the grain and read the excerpt from Tagore posted above at #84. It may help you understand.
Peace, brothers.

Nah, they're not that funny...only boring as ditchwater...

 

[Chagos]

Nah, they're not that funny...only boring as ditchwater...

the beauty of c & p (that some of us actually CAN master)

Posts such as these seem to be a confirmation that any debate appears to put you out of your depth altogether.

If you can't contribute anything meaningful, what makes you think that ad hominems serve as a substitute?

Okay, just for the hell of it, seeing how you make a claim and even state having an explanation for it, provide your proof.

That you'd scuttle from the challenge in the last sentence coming, of course, as no surprise either.

 

[Angel]

... honest, rational discussion...

Examples of "honest, rational discussion," apparently:

Yet more magical thinking and unsupported bare assertions. Are you sure you're clicking your heels together three times when saying that?
...

You never seem to tire of laughably dishonest word games...

... You are brazenly dishonest and yet you clearly yearn to be taken seriously on what appears to be a pathological level.

"Gravity is spirit'.
Yeah, buddy.
...

Enough said.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Examples of "honest, rational discussion," apparently:







Enough said.

Yes, and? My statements were honest assessments of what I was addressing. You have a long, long history of dishonesty and rather childish word games; why would you be so upset when someone calls you out on it?

You're also quite often being unintentionally ironic. Like now.

 

[William Rea]

It's the case universally, Chagos. Like the force of gravity. Only gravity is also part of Spirit...

So, how does gravity interact with the immaterial?