A question to the American Political Left regarding Iran and Russia (1 Viewer)

[Felis Leo]

This is a question to my fellow Americans, primarily those who consider themselves to be on the political left (whether left-leaning, openly liberal, progressive, socialist, general Democrat-voter, etc.) in light of the United States' targeted killing of Iranian Revolutionary Guards General Qasem Soleimani. The question is regarding the ideological consistency of those here on the political left regarding our nation's adversaries.

I know some seem to be deeply hostile to Russia, but it seems that they are only hostile towards the country for helping Donald Trump win the 2016 election, rather than out of a general sense of principle. Much of the sympathy towards Iran I see from the left also seems to be purely partisan and not based on principle as well. But that is my reading, and I could be totally off-base as towards most of the political left. What I want to know from you is the following: Whether you consider Russia and/or Iran are enemies of the United States, and whether we should treat them as enemies*.

The choices are:

1. Russia is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Iran
2. Iran is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Russia
3. Both Iran and Russia are enemies of the U.S. , and should be treated as such
4. Neither Iran nor Russia are enemies of the U.S., and should not be treated as such
5. I do not know, I need more information
6. Other

If you consider Russia to be an enemy of the United States for its actions towards us, but not Iran, please explain your reasoning why. If Iran is an enemy, but not Russia, please explain your reasoning. If neither are enemies, again, I ask that you please explain your reasoning.

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking whether the United States or its allies deserves or merits the hostility that either Russia or Iran has displayed towards the United States (if indeed you believe they have engaged in any hostile action towards us). My only question is whether you believe Russia and Iran are our country's enemies.

*NOTE: By "enemies" I mean they are hostile to the United States and its interests, and actively seek to undermine and damage those interests when possible. I do not mean we are in a state of declared war with them, which we are not.

 

[Drawdown]

I consider Iran our enemy and Russia our rival.

 

[joko104]

I consider Iran our enemy and Russia our rival.

:thumbs:

 

[RetiredUSN]

The left is full of ****, and always has been regarding Iran.

Obama cut a nuclear deal with known terrorists (Iranian Mullah's) while their henchman general was killing American soldiers.

Obama and Kerry knew it, and kept dealing anyways to save Obama's legacy.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Neither the Russian people nor the Iranian people are our enemies, but their governments are not our friends.

 

[Cougarbear]

Neither the Russian people nor the Iranian people are our enemies, but their governments are not our friends.

That's pretty close. However, their governments have sought to destroy our government and way of life. So, I would classify their governments as enemies. I am trying to understand why Democrats are siding with terrorist governments. Putin supports Iran's government, not their people and what the people want. Iran's government are fascist terrorists. Putin is supporting them. They are our enemies then.

 

[Jredbaron96]

That's pretty close. However, their governments have sought to destroy our government and way of life.

That is hyperbole. Russia wants what Russia has always wanted; security of it's borders and the influence over the near abroad. The United States doesn't need to be destroyed for that to exist.

Iran gave up the ambition of international revolution a while ago. Their concerns are far more regional.

 

[Cougarbear]

That is hyperbole. Russia wants what Russia has always wanted; security of it's borders and the influence over the near abroad. The United States doesn't need to be destroyed for that to exist.

Iran gave up the ambition of international revolution a while ago. Their concerns are far more regional.

So, there was no interference in our elections by Russia. Iran didn't bribe Obama for the 150 billion dollars. Therefore, the entire impeachment is just a hoax as we always have known.

 

[Jredbaron96]

So, there was no interference in our elections by Russia.

They did, but the United States did not cease existing after that. What makes you think that?

Iran didn't bribe Obama for the 150 billion dollars.

You're right, they did not.

 

[Nickyjo]

This is a question to my fellow Americans, primarily those who consider themselves to be on the political left (whether left-leaning, openly liberal, progressive, socialist, general Democrat-voter, etc.) in light of the United States' targeted killing of Iranian Revolutionary Guards General Qasem Soleimani. The question is regarding the ideological consistency of those here on the political left regarding our nation's adversaries.

I know some seem to be deeply hostile to Russia, but it seems that they are only hostile towards the country for helping Donald Trump win the 2016 election, rather than out of a general sense of principle. Much of the sympathy towards Iran I see from the left also seems to be purely partisan and not based on principle as well. But that is my reading, and I could be totally off-base as towards most of the political left. What I want to know from you is the following: Whether you consider Russia and/or Iran are enemies of the United States, and whether we should treat them as enemies*.

The choices are:

1. Russia is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Iran
2. Iran is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Russia
3. Both Iran and Russia are enemies of the U.S. , and should be treated as such
4. Neither Iran nor Russia are enemies of the U.S., and should not be treated as such
5. I do not know, I need more information
6. Other

If you consider Russia to be an enemy of the United States for its actions towards us, but not Iran, please explain your reasoning why. If Iran is an enemy, but not Russia, please explain your reasoning. If neither are enemies, again, I ask that you please explain your reasoning.

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking whether the United States or its allies deserves or merits the hostility that either Russia or Iran has displayed towards the United States (if indeed you believe they have engaged in any hostile action towards us). My only question is whether you believe Russia and Iran are our country's enemies.

*NOTE: By "enemies" I mean they are hostile to the United States and its interests, and actively seek to undermine and damage those interests when possible. I do not mean we are in a state of declared war with them, which we are not.

Years ago during the Cold War, in one of my rare accurate predictions, I suggested to friends that even absent communism, the US and Russia would be adversaries as the biggest fish in the pond, much like England and France or England and Spain of previous centuries. Both large and powerful, rivals for influence in the Middle East, it’s natural that they and we would see each other as in conflict up to a point.

Iran is an adversary of the US, much as Red China was. There have two thrusts to US/Iran relations. One is a “John Bolton” approach: blow up everything or invade it, W caught the fever after 9/11. Invade Afghanistan and eliminate Iran’s adversary to the east. Invade Iraq and eliminate its adversary to the west. (“Thank you, Great Satan.”) The other side might be called the Nixon/Obama approach. Nixon reached out to our “Great Satan,” China. He didn’t try to kill generals who designed battle plans in Korea and killed thousands of Americans. Success of a sort. Obama reached out to the current Devil and together with China, Russia and our strongest allies cut a deal with Iran that our intelligence agencies said was adhered to, with Iran curbing unfriendly activities to boot.

Trump’s actions may have him viewed as Churchillian and visionary if successful in the long run. Or he could be viewed as that moron Gavrilo Princip, the guy who shot Archduke Ferdinand and wife during tense times and gifted us with the wonderful first half of the 20th century.

 

[redrover]

The left is full of ****, and always has been regarding Iran.

Obama cut a nuclear deal with known terrorists (Iranian Mullah's) while their henchman general was killing American soldiers.

Obama and Kerry knew it, and kept dealing anyways to save Obama's legacy.

All this assassination means is next man up. And right now rockets are being fired into the Green zone. Unlike the United States Iran doesn't have just one evil man capable of creating chaos.

 

[bradt99]

I consider Iran our enemy and Russia our rival.

What is wrong with having Russia as an ally to help with conflict in the middle east? The Soviet War was over a long time ago.

 

[lurchadams]

To suggest that "the left" is only now hostile to Russia because they helped trump win in 2016 is malarkey. Russia, for almost a century has been an enemy of the Western world. My feelings toward Russia have not changed since 2016. My feelings towards trump has since he persists in insulting our allies while embracing Putin. This makes the Western world weaker - which should be obvious to anyone with a brain. Russia will never be interested in peace with the U.S. Their goal is world domination.

Iran is a terrorist state and will continue to be that way until we and our allies can find some way to make peace with them. This would involve easing up the economic sanctions and some stark, mutual displays of goodwill.

 

[truthatallcost]

Russia and Iran are not our enemies, and pose no threat to America. They are however a big problem for Israel, which makes them our problem, since we are sworn to protect Israel from all its enemies.

 

[Cardinal]

What is wrong with having Russia as an ally to help with conflict in the middle east? The Soviet War was over a long time ago.

When was this “Soviet War?”

 

[Rogue Valley]

Both the Kremlin and Tehran governments are, to varying degree, hostile to the US.

They each attack the US by indirect means or via proxy, and challenge the US whenever they perceive an upper hand or plausible deniability.

 

[Jredbaron96]

When was this “Soviet War?”

I think he means the Soviet-Afghan War.

 

[Grand Mal]

The left is full of ****, and always has been regarding Iran.

Obama cut a nuclear deal with known terrorists (Iranian Mullah's) while their henchman general was killing American soldiers.

Obama and Kerry knew it, and kept dealing anyways to save Obama's legacy.

Obama? Why Obama? Hell, Saint Ronald of Reagan sold weapons to Iran. Secretly. And used the profits to fund terrorists in Central America. Secretly. And guess what- that has exactly as much to do with today as Obama.

 

[Cardinal]

I think he means the Soviet-Afghan War.

Or the Cold War. More likely though is that he was referring to something that existed only in his mind.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Both Iran and Russia are our enemies, but war is not the answer.

 

[Cardinal]

This is a question to my fellow Americans, primarily those who consider themselves to be on the political left (whether left-leaning, openly liberal, progressive, socialist, general Democrat-voter, etc.) in light of the United States' targeted killing of Iranian Revolutionary Guards General Qasem Soleimani. The question is regarding the ideological consistency of those here on the political left regarding our nation's adversaries.

I know some seem to be deeply hostile to Russia, but it seems that they are only hostile towards the country for helping Donald Trump win the 2016 election, rather than out of a general sense of principle.

No. There was also the war in Chechnya, the persecution of gays, the murder of political rivals and the invasion of Crimea and the proxy war in Ukraine. Many negative events preceded their interference in the 2016 election to help Trump.

Much of the sympathy towards Iran I see from the left also seems to be purely partisan and not based on principle as well. But that is my reading, and I could be totally off-base as towards most of the political left.

You are. There isn’t “sympathy toward Iran.” Iran is a regional foe who was in a position that they could be negotiated with to align more with our long term goals (unlike, say, North Korea). The Iran deal achieved some of the largest long term goals. Then trump reneged on the deal which is why they started their nuclear program back up. And now he’s committed an act that is very likely to escalate into a large scale conflict that nobody wanted, and it’s just as likely that Trump considered none of the ramification of that act and has no long term strategy or policy. But this has nothing to with “sympathy toward Iran.” We’re well aware that they’re a regional adversary with goals that are antithetical to our interests and the interests of our regional allies.

What I want to know from you is the following: Whether you consider Russia and/or Iran are enemies of the United States, and whether we should treat them as enemies*.

Different strokes for different folks. North Korea could never be attacked because they were too militarily entrenched. Sanctions were really our only negotiation card. This is similar to Iran only in the sense that we don’t (until two days ago, I guess) have the stomach for getting embroiled in yet another large scale ME conflict. Obviously Russia is a tougher nut to crack because...you know...giant nuclear arsenal and all that. All you can really do there is sanctions (think Magnitsky Act), shutting down embassies and arming allies to make them less attractive prospects for invasion (which is the leverage Trump used to get Ukraine to open an investigation into his political rival).

The choices are:

1. Russia is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Iran
2. Iran is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Russia
3. Both Iran and Russia are enemies of the U.S. , and should be treated as such
4. Neither Iran nor Russia are enemies of the U.S., and should not be treated as such
5. I do not know, I need more information
6. Other

If you consider Russia to be an enemy of the United States for its actions towards us, but not Iran, please explain your reasoning why. If Iran is an enemy, but not Russia, please explain your reasoning. If neither are enemies, again, I ask that you please explain your reasoning.

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking whether the United States or its allies deserves or merits the hostility that either Russia or Iran has displayed towards the United States (if indeed you believe they have engaged in any hostile action towards us). My only question is whether you believe Russia and Iran are our country's enemies.

*NOTE: By "enemies" I mean they are hostile to the United States and its interests, and actively seek to undermine and damage those interests when possible. I do not mean we are in a state of declared war with them, which we are not.

 

[Irredentist]

This is a question to my fellow Americans, primarily those who consider themselves to be on the political left (whether left-leaning, openly liberal, progressive, socialist, general Democrat-voter, etc.) in light of the United States' targeted killing of Iranian Revolutionary Guards General Qasem Soleimani. The question is regarding the ideological consistency of those here on the political left regarding our nation's adversaries.

I know some seem to be deeply hostile to Russia, but it seems that they are only hostile towards the country for helping Donald Trump win the 2016 election, rather than out of a general sense of principle. Much of the sympathy towards Iran I see from the left also seems to be purely partisan and not based on principle as well. But that is my reading, and I could be totally off-base as towards most of the political left. What I want to know from you is the following: Whether you consider Russia and/or Iran are enemies of the United States, and whether we should treat them as enemies*.

The choices are:

1. Russia is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Iran
2. Iran is an enemy of the U.S. and should be treated as such, but not Russia
3. Both Iran and Russia are enemies of the U.S. , and should be treated as such
4. Neither Iran nor Russia are enemies of the U.S., and should not be treated as such
5. I do not know, I need more information
6. Other

If you consider Russia to be an enemy of the United States for its actions towards us, but not Iran, please explain your reasoning why. If Iran is an enemy, but not Russia, please explain your reasoning. If neither are enemies, again, I ask that you please explain your reasoning.

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking whether the United States or its allies deserves or merits the hostility that either Russia or Iran has displayed towards the United States (if indeed you believe they have engaged in any hostile action towards us). My only question is whether you believe Russia and Iran are our country's enemies.

*NOTE: By "enemies" I mean they are hostile to the United States and its interests, and actively seek to undermine and damage those interests when possible. I do not mean we are in a state of declared war with them, which we are not.

Iran and Russia are not my enemies, nor do I wish for my country to be their enemy. I believe that far more can be accomplished via diplomacy than by conflict. We have been fighting wars in the middle east for decades now, with no noticable improvement in the situation. The time to admit defeat has come.

 

[molten_dragon]

I consider both Iran and Russia hostile to the US, though I wouldn't go quite so far as to call either one an enemy. And I definitely don't think we should be taking actions that could be seen as a declaration of war with either one.

 

[lurchadams]

I think he means the Soviet-Afghan War.

No, I think he means the "cold war" which never ended.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

That's pretty close. However, their governments have sought to destroy our government and way of life. So, I would classify their governments as enemies. I am trying to understand why Democrats are siding with terrorist governments. Putin supports Iran's government, not their people and what the people want. Iran's government are fascist terrorists. Putin is supporting them. They are our enemies then.

Siding with terrorist governments?
Where on Earth did you get that idea?
I think you pulled it straight out of Sean Hannity's ass.

The governments of both Iran and Russia are hostile adversaries and have been for years, and irregardless of the why's and wherefore's, that is a fact.

My position is this and only this:
A corrupt and dangerously incompetent president has initiated a MANUFACTURED WAR against the advice of nearly everyone except his loyal followers. The best and brightest in our military community have been summarily dismissed by Mickey Mouse and now Goofy is running the show, and the "show" only has one purpose, that of a desperate ploy by a desperate demagogue to seal his corrupt hold on power, nothing more.

We have had eyeballs on Suleiman since 1979.
There is a reason why we didn't take him out yet...we knew it would lead to an all out war, one which we would necessarily need to be prepared for like no other war in our history, not a police action, not a unilateral action, but a full congressionally declared war with clear objectives and relatively free of profiteering and corrupt fiscal agendas.
Trump was doing business WITH the Iran Revolutionary Guard at his unfinished hotel in Azerbaijan.
His actions have NO bearing on keeping us safe whatsoever.