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A Nation of Simpletons

Your viewpoint is popular among liberals, but it is a hasty and ill-considered "explain all" reaction to right wing criticisms.
I don't have a clue what is popular among liberals, but I completely disagree that it is either "hasty" or "ill-considered". Indeed, quite the opposite. Yes, it is inspired by the right wing, but not criticism - actions. I'm frankly not sure that I understand your statement about being "reaction to right wing criticisms." I would like some elucidation on that point, because it does not comport with my understanding or observations at all.

The right-wing complaints are not the primary drivers of education or classroom teachings, they are defensive REACTIONS to an education system that teaches a different value system.
Yes, it is driven by reactionaries. They do appear on each occasion to be driven by "a different value system" - scientific and historical understandings on the one hand, and religiosity and historical revisionism on the other.

I couldn't quite parse the next sentence, but I think it was intended to read
But [for] those teachings (and student learnings), there wouldn't be right-wing "outsiders" complaining.
Still didn't parse it. I think it was intended to indicate that education had become too "liberal" for the tastes of some ideologically-oriented advocates. I disagree, and I think this was a result of overzealous advocation by those self-same ideologues.

The reality is that the strong majority of teachers are liberals and democrats, undergraduate and graduate schools of education are dominated by liberal educators and education philosophies, and curriculums have increasingly become more liberal since the 1960s.
Based on what? That may have been true in the 1960's-70's, but to my experience, it is not true today. I have family in education (in Missouri, no less), and it certainly isn't true there. I look forward to discussing that aspect of your post, when you have time.
 
In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?

We can begin by not overgeneralizing the way you have here.
 
We can begin by not overgeneralizing the way you have here.

Please elaborate. I really can't determine what your point is supposed to be.
 
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Please elaborate. I really can't determine what your point is supposed to be.

1. It’s not true that all people get their information and form their beliefs from headlines rather than from the articles.
2. Not all people in our nation are simpletons who are unable to think complex thoughts.
3. Not all are unable to hold onto a line of thought or require 288 characters or a bulleted summary to follow along.
4. Not everyone’s beliefs are “binary.”

These are all insupportable overgeneralizations.
 
Nov 2016 we had a choice between two turds, one of whom contains nuts. I chose the sane one, she lost and so did America with a President Trump.

Crooked Hillary - that lying, greedy, corrupt, immoral, left-wing, incompetent, cellulite-infested, walking gas bag with Benghazi blood on her hands - she was the sane one?

Laughing Hyena.webp
 
1. It’s not true that all people get their information and form their beliefs from headlines rather than from the articles.
2. Not all people in our nation are simpletons who are unable to think complex thoughts.
3. Not all are unable to hold onto a line of thought or require 288 characters or a bulleted summary to follow along.
4. Not everyone’s beliefs are “binary.”

These are all insupportable overgeneralizations.

Oh my, there is so much to disagree with there, this may take some time. I'll start with the last statement - while "generalization", hardly unsupportable. Indeed, I think you will be hard pressed to refute the assertion - I'm looking forward to you supplying some support for yours. (I'll supply some citations in the morning to refute yours. There is plenty of academic work that validates my personal impressions.)

Re: 1. Didn't assert that. But, it is certainly demonstrable that a lot of posters here do so. I've pointed it out on several occasions. I think, my friend, your assertion is the generalization - one I didn't make.

Re: 2. Again, not an assertion I made. I'm perceiving a strawman occupying this argumentation. There is, however, a growing population of "simpletons" participating in public discourse. I should, perhaps, elaborate on what I mean by "simpleton." I didn't say "stupid ". "Gullible"? God, yes. "Simplistic", assuredly. "Lacking in complexity or nuance"? Exactly. Lacking detail? Yup. But, that may just be a restatement of the hypothesis.

Re:3&4. Again, I'm getting hay fever. Just checking signals: was this intended to be satire? This is exactly the kind of argumentation I am complaining about. Were you intending to provide examples? It's sometimes hard to tell, and it is late and I'm tired.
 
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In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?
The simplest explanation for the trend you have noticed is human psychology. It is now well known that people's ability to think clearly and with nuance deteriorates when they are experiencing strong emotions.

With the development of mass media, politicians have learned how to take advantage of this effect. They have promoted messages of imminent disaster if the other side wins. As time went on, the messages became sharper. They went from warning about the dangers of unintended consequences (a message that implies the other side has good intentions but is misguided) to warning that the other side hates America and wants to destroy it.
 
In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?

A good start would be to take the money out of politics. Ban all monetary donations to candidates-especially corporate, ban negative advertising aimed at your opponents, ban lobbyists-especially those begging for cash for other nations (Israel), give all candidates equal air-time to voice their agendas and that, at least, might level the playing field a little.
 
At some point, we accepted the idea that everyone was entitled to their own opinion.

While this was a fine ideal, we took that further and decided that every opinion deserved a place at the table. Every voice should be heard.

Today we have a growing flat earth movement, and an anti vaccination movement. We have learned to distrust science and intellect. We crowd source facts through Wikipedia and the echo chambers we place ourselves in push us to radical exert most views.

We have become the Idiocracy.

What we decided was that everyone should have their own facts. THAT is the problem. Political propaganda has gotten to the point that even mainstream news sources can be treated as "fake news" if those reading it decide they don't like what is said
 
Wasn't it Pizzarro who had molten gold poured down his throat by the Incas, or something like that?
Maybe I have the wrong name, but I seem to remember that once the natives discovered that he wasn't a god after all and that he was just after their gold and their women, they exacted some fitting consequences for his gold-lust.
Help me out with the proper name if I am wrong?



1. It was NOT Pizarro. (Check Wikipedia for details of his assassination.)

2. According to some Google sources, it was an unnamed Spanish governor of Ecuador in the year 1599.

a. This method of execution was also used by the Romans and the Spanish Inquisition.
 
And more than that, Alpha Omega is reduced to just flat out calling anyone who disagrees with him a liar.
The anonymity of sitting behind a keyboard is comforting to cowards because they can call people liars and not fear the consequences. Maybe some of us intellectuals sometimes let anger get the better of us from time to time in real life, like a hypothetical situation where we state our positions honestly and some sniveling derpy coward who shall remain nameless calls us a liar. Then we switch from intellectual to pugilist, if only to get their attention, and at least momentary respect.

I expect my word on my positions to get at least the basic human dignity of respect, as long as I am playing by the rules of decorum and civility. Call me a liar after I sincerely state my position and you have broken civility.

I sincerely DO support border security. I may not agree with the current methodology and the fearmongering in vogue right now but I want immigration controlled by a multitude of criteria, quotas, quality, qualifications, clean records, verifiable ID, abilities, ambition, willingness to mainstream and adapt, and many others.

Now call me a liar, but try and do it to my face. You won't. I guarantee you won't.

My reaction will be, to use a term appropriate for this thread: BINARY.

Calling one a liar and the other a simpleton. I fail to see what about either is "cerebral".
It starts with the OP. Although cleverly masking the real intend by some inclusive phrases, it quickly comes down to the real intent
The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing.
I wish I had a $ for every time I read about the educated and the elite having all the answers, and the masses better listen and abide, for the simple minded don't know what is good for them. Let us pause and reflect that it isn't just Trump's "boot lickers" who fail HS and don't have a doctorate.
It is the simpletons who make up the vast majority, the ones who keep the ball rolling while the elite theorizes about, and gloats in, their superiority.
If anything, both parties have groomed us quite well. A few bones here and there, while they sit and wait and anticipate being in power. The elite clings to anything that makes them feel superior, while the masses look for the bottom line.
So if you want to have an elevated discussion, don't stand on a pedestal and throw insults. Go about the country and see how the simpletons live. Not everyone sits in a lofty abode, most are barely scraping by and don't have time to theorize.
Both sides are making promises, telling us how to improve our lives and our livelihood, but neither side is interested in changing the status quo. Keeping us at the feet of the superior minds is just too rewarding.
How condescending to tell the masses how small their minds are, while pretending to want what's best for them.
Here puppy, free HC ( a basis human right not to be dangled for votes), free college if you can afford to live through it. You don't a job, we give you a few dollars. Lets leave the border open for other simpletons to come...more to admire us. We promise. We have thousands of homeless men, women and children. What's a few more? We can't straighten out our own country, but lets welcome more people from countries who have failed as much as we have. It makes us look compassionate...unless you ask some poor slob who has to compete.
Trump ain't no Einstein, and who knows what his real motives are. When you done do a comparison to other politicians, promises made, progress made, and weigh the concerns the simpletons have to deal with every day, you know, feeding their uneducated kids, cleaning up their single wides or their low income inner city abodes, may be it aint quite as simple are the elite thinks it is.
 
At some point, we accepted the idea that everyone was entitled to their own opinion.

While this was a fine ideal, we took that further and decided that every opinion deserved a place at the table. Every voice should be heard.

Today we have a growing flat earth movement, and an anti vaccination movement. We have learned to distrust science and intellect. We crowd source facts through Wikipedia and the echo chambers we place ourselves in push us to radical exert most views.

We have become the Idiocracy.

Not to defend the flat earthers or anti-vaxxers, but the other side of the coin is that WE have been conditioned to think in certain ways, and truth about various matters HAS BEEN suppressed.

Edward Bernays put a fine edge on it: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we've never heard of."

Yes, we are a nation of simpletons, and part of the reason for that is because substantial efforts have been made by those behind the scenes to manipulate the public perception. Since the time of Bernays, manipulation of the public perception has been brought to a very high art form.

When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts, according to William Casey in 1981.
 
hmm, i am thinking people have always been this way. it's the complexity of the issues that have changed.

and the myriad of ways and means to obfuscate them.
 
The simplest explanation for the trend you have noticed is human psychology. It is now well known that people's ability to think clearly and with nuance deteriorates when they are experiencing strong emotions.

With the development of mass media, politicians have learned how to take advantage of this effect. They have promoted messages of imminent disaster if the other side wins. As time went on, the messages became sharper. They went from warning about the dangers of unintended consequences (a message that implies the other side has good intentions but is misguided) to warning that the other side hates America and wants to destroy it.

These are some very good points. There is a good deal of academic research that supports your assertions about "fight or flight" responses and poor capacity for accurate "risk assessment".

I also agree with the point about "weaponizing" psychology. This is a trend in numerous endeavors - advertising, sports, politics and warfare. My greatest concern is, how do we, as a society, break out of the process? My inclination is to believe that education is the principle tool, but there is a risk of inducing paranoia, which is singularly counterproductive. Learning to be skeptical is important, though. Distrust, then verify.
 

I sincerely DO support border security. I may not agree with the current methodology and the fearmongering in vogue right now but I want immigration controlled by a multitude of criteria, quotas, quality, qualifications, clean records, verifiable ID, abilities, ambition, willingness to mainstream and adapt, and many others.

Now call me a liar, but try and do it to my face. You won't. I guarantee you won't.

My reaction will be, to use a term appropriate for this thread: BINARY.

then why do you not call for the politicians you agree with to make up something we can all get behind , instead of just applauding them for stopping the President's policies on this issue?

I am all for environmental cleanup, downsizing the power of harmful corporations, attempts at good governmental healthcare, lowering medicinal costs, abortion choice etc..

BUT I will not support further firearm restrictions without an amendment to the constitution, or illegal immigration laws that allow catch and release to our interior, or radical social justice reforms such as reparations.

can anyone with different beliefs here compromise on those? if not then how are we to solve these issues?
 
It occurred to after my last post that all of the "endeavors" I listed are "competitive". I'm going to ponder that for a bit. There is definitely a correlation between competition and simplification. Cooperating is, by its very nature, a more complex process and requires more nuance.
 
Calling one a liar and the other a simpleton. I fail to see what about either is "cerebral".
It starts with the OP. Although cleverly masking the real intend by some inclusive phrases, it quickly comes down to the real intent

I wish I had a $ for every time I read about the educated and the elite having all the answers, and the masses better listen and abide, for the simple minded don't know what is good for them. Let us pause and reflect that it isn't just Trump's "boot lickers" who fail HS and don't have a doctorate.
It is the simpletons who make up the vast majority, the ones who keep the ball rolling while the elite theorizes about, and gloats in, their superiority.
If anything, both parties have groomed us quite well. A few bones here and there, while they sit and wait and anticipate being in power. The elite clings to anything that makes them feel superior, while the masses look for the bottom line.
So if you want to have an elevated discussion, don't stand on a pedestal and throw insults. Go about the country and see how the simpletons live. Not everyone sits in a lofty abode, most are barely scraping by and don't have time to theorize.
Both sides are making promises, telling us how to improve our lives and our livelihood, but neither side is interested in changing the status quo. Keeping us at the feet of the superior minds is just too rewarding.
How condescending to tell the masses how small their minds are, while pretending to want what's best for them.
Here puppy, free HC ( a basis human right not to be dangled for votes), free college if you can afford to live through it. You don't a job, we give you a few dollars. Lets leave the border open for other simpletons to come...more to admire us. We promise. We have thousands of homeless men, women and children. What's a few more? We can't straighten out our own country, but lets welcome more people from countries who have failed as much as we have. It makes us look compassionate...unless you ask some poor slob who has to compete.
Trump ain't no Einstein, and who knows what his real motives are. When you done do a comparison to other politicians, promises made, progress made, and weigh the concerns the simpletons have to deal with every day, you know, feeding their uneducated kids, cleaning up their single wides or their low income inner city abodes, may be it aint quite as simple are the elite thinks it is.

Thank you for providing a prime example of reductionism. You elevated an offhand comment (I wish I hadn't included it) to the "real intent", thus avoiding the central point and allowing the introduction of pet complaints rather than considered thought. I invite you to go back, reread what you wrote, and separate your "feelings" from your "thoughts". It can be illuminating.

Most of the diatribe is based upon assumptions - mostly about me - and stereotypes. Other than what I posted here, what do you know about me? That I've had success, or at least education, yes, I said so. Where I've lived? No. What I've experienced? No. Instead you leap to "elites" to castigate people for thinking, for being sympathetic, for using their god-given capacity to ponder. Hmm. Methinks that's part of the problem, no?
 
then why do you not call for the politicians you agree with to make up something we can all get behind , instead of just applauding them for stopping the President's policies on this issue?

I am all for environmental cleanup, downsizing the power of harmful corporations, attempts at good governmental healthcare, lowering medicinal costs, abortion choice etc..

BUT I will not support further firearm restrictions without an amendment to the constitution, or illegal immigration laws that allow catch and release to our interior, or radical social justice reforms such as reparations.

can anyone with different beliefs here compromise on those? if not then how are we to solve these issues?
There is much here I agree with (despite some tone and supposition quibbles). I'm going to latch onto one point, though, in particular that I think illustrative: immigration.

This is a complicated issue with multifaceted implications and a lot of human effects. There was a comprehensive reform Bill, which included many compromises, that was passed by one House, yet killed for political reasons without a vote or debate. Instead, we are treated to a lot of simplistic and refutable assertions, casting of blame, by politicians and others, and no progress. This has real-world implications. I disagree with the assertion that it's "just applauding them for stopping the President's policies". That's just the start of the conversation. If you're driving and your car starts to skid, what's the first thing you need to do? Take your foot off the gas! Stomping on the gas or the brakes will worsen the skid and you lose control. Thats what were going through now. The President needs to take his foot off the gas before we hit the guardrail (again).

The solutions to this and the other significant policy issues you raised are complicated and not amenable to bumper-sticker, simplistic solutions (we agree). So, let's start the conversation - at least in Congress.
 
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There is much here I agree with (despite some tone and supposition quibbles). I'm going to latch onto one point, though, in particular that I think illustrative: immigration.

This is a complicated issue with multifaceted implications and a lot of human effects. There was a comprehensive reform Bill, which included many compromises, that was passed by one House, yet killed for political reasons without a vote or debate. Instead, we are treated to a lot of simplistic and refutable assertions, casting of blame, by politicians and others, and no progress. This has real-world implications. I disagree with the assertion that it's "just applauding them for stopping the President's policies". That's just the start of the conversation. If you're driving and your car starts to skid, what's the first thing you need to do? Take your foot off the gas! Stomping on the gas or the brakes will worsen the skid and you lose control. Thats what were going through now. The President needs to take his foot off the gas before we hit the guardrail (again).

The solutions to this and the other significant policy issues you raised are complicated and not amenable to bumper-sticker, simplistic solutions (we agree). So, let's start the conversation - at least in Congress.

Well I have to disagree to some extent. politicians are to a large extent by and for themselves UNLESS there is an outcry for action from the public that is sizeable enough to affect them. They will do what is most likely to keep them in office (unless it directly affects them is some way). the only way we can affect real change as the "public" is to demand action when it needs to be taken.

why would Trump take his foot off the gas while his supporters (almost half the country) still back his policy? the only way to effect compromise in such a situation is to come up with an alternative that BOTH sides can agree on and start to put outcry to THAT policy, which will spur action.

otherwise it is my belief that the nature of politicians will make them want to allow this to go on indefinitely for the very reason of keeping us split, among other things.

so IF a majority of those who oppose Trump's immigration ideas DO INDEED support border security , the only way for us to solve the actual issue is to demand they propose something people from both sides can get behind.

otherwise the politicians, by and large, will ride the issues they can argue for their next re-election all the way to November 2020 without doing anything, repeat, repeat, etc..
 
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hmm, i am thinking people have always been this way. it's the complexity of the issues that have changed.

and the myriad of ways and means to obfuscate them.

The next time you’re watching a movie set in the Middle Ages and the “hero” strolls into a tavern. The movie will quickly pan around the room displaying the unwashed uneducated peasants. We are meant to feel their ignorance rising from them like a stench.

Remember that.

Then remember that those people are not fictional. They still exist. And we allow them to vote.
 
So he's an intelligent career criminal. He's not the first. And like all the others, it will eventually cost him more than he can pay.

What Trump isn't is he isn't a loser.
 
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