A Government shutdown looms!?

[apdst]

Perhaps you should do a bit of research into what "nonessential" personnel do, and then you'd understand better. As I pointed out in another thread...

If they're nonessential, then we need to cull them.

 

[Zyphlin]

Perhaps you should do a bit of research into what "nonessential" personnel do, and then you'd understand better. As I pointed out in another thread...

And just to keep going...

Do you think our veterans should be able to visit places like the Vietnam Memorial in DC, and other such war memorials? Well, the people who actually operate and upkeep those places are all "non-essential" employees. Similarly, the commissary's for our military families are closed because, once again, a "non-essential" service. Last shutdown, "non-essential" employees within the Department of Defense included Middle East experts that helped the Pentagon craft it's military policy in that part of the world....clearly, such expertise is obviously waste because they're civilian and not an actual military officer :roll:. And what about our Military Acadamies? Welp, any faculty member that's a civilian? Yep, "non-essential", and same goes for much of the support staff....time to get rid of those military accadamies I guess?

The national institute of health? Non-essential, so just get rid of that I'm guessing? E-Verify, something so many people push? Yeah, that gets shut down and the employees related running it are non-essential. FLETC, the governments primary law enforcement training center? Yep, closed because the employees are non-essential. I guess we're just good with the federal law enforcement we have now and should never bother with training any new ones because "non-essential", lul!

Any immigration court employee, including judges, other then those to handle the number of individuals detained right at the time of a shutdown? Non-essential.

The BLS, pumping out those unemployment report numbers and such we get routinely and use to shape policy and make business and financial decisions? Yep, non-essential.

NASA is almost entirely non-essential, same goes for the National Achieves. And the Smithsonian institute and Musems of Natural History, Air and Space, and the National Zoo.

I'm all for shrinking the government, but anyone thinking that taking a government shutdown as the base template and that "non-essential" employees are literally non-essential during a normal operating procedures are just going off utter and complete ignorance of the situation.

 

[Zyphlin]

If they're nonessential, then we need to cull them.

So apdst is going on record that we don't need to people to actually deal with paying employees, hiring employees, recruiting employees, training employees, maintaining the buildings that employees work in, or any of that such. OR that the people in such "essential" positions should be able to handle those "essential" duties along side those other non-essential ones all at the same time!

Also, shutter or let all national parks and military monuments go into disrepair, shutter NASA, leave the national achieves to basically be decades behind with a skeleton crew, get rid of our history museums, stop the training of federal law enforcement, end e-verify, take years to actually process immigration violators to get them out of the country due to a skeleton crew of judges, shutdown Westpoint / The Naval Academy / The Air Force Acadamy / etc, and purge pretty much any non-military expert that's part of the DOD.

Because hey! They're not "essential" in a short term shutdown where those supportive services can be forgone in the short term without a significant impact to the governments abilities so they should be unneeded in the long term as well because LOGIC!

Hell, screw the public sector...I hope you're never even in charge of something in the private sector as you'd basically guarantee we'd be adding a bunch of people onto the tax payers dole after you bankrupt the business with your mentality of what is needed to actually do the basic actions of an operation.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

The funny thing is, that there had been a deal on spending and immigration that trump could have easily agreed to and would have prevented this showdown currently going on.

It was the Durbin-Graham bill.

 

[apdst]

So apdst is going on record that we don't need to people to actually deal with paying employees, hiring employees, recruiting employees, training employees, maintaining the buildings that employees work in, or any of that such. OR that the people in such "essential" positions should be able to handle those "essential" duties along side those other non-essential ones all at the same time!

Also, shutter or let all national parks and military monuments go into disrepair, shutter NASA, leave the national achieves to basically be decades behind with a skeleton crew, get rid of our history museums, stop the training of federal law enforcement, end e-verify, take years to actually process immigration violators to get them out of the country due to a skeleton crew of judges, shutdown Westpoint / The Naval Academy / The Air Force Acadamy / etc, and purge pretty much any non-military expert that's part of the DOD.

Because hey! They're not "essential" in a short term shutdown where those supportive services can be forgone in the short term without a significant impact to the governments abilities so they should be unneeded in the long term as well because LOGIC!

Hell, screw the public sector...I hope you're never even in charge of something in the private sector as you'd basically guarantee we'd be adding a bunch of people onto the tax payers dole after you bankrupt the business with your mentality of what is needed to actually do the basic actions of an operation.

Are those people essential to the basic operation of the government, or not? If not, we need to hand them a pink slip.

Hell, screw the public sector...

The public sector screws the private sector all the time, with no concequences and they don't lose a second's sleep over it. If you're looking for sympathy from me, you're **** out of luck.

 

[apdst]

The funny thing is, that there had been a deal on spending and immigration that trump could have easily agreed to and would have prevented this showdown currently going on.

It was the Durbin-Graham bill.

Durbin-Graham is permanent amnesty. I'm glad President Trump ****canned it.

 

[Zyphlin]

Are those people essential to the basic operation of the government, or not? If not, we need to hand them a pink slip.

In the long run...yes. People who's job is to hire employees, people who's job is to pay employees, people who's job is to train employees, people who's gobs is to maintain the spaces and equipment those people use to do their jobs, are essential to the basic operation of government. They're the type of things that can be neglected and ignored for short periods of time, especially during periods where people aren't being paid or hired, but not over any kind of extended period of time. Thus the problem with trying to treat people who are "non-essential" during a government shutdown as being similarly "non-essential" in a general, broader, long term sense.

You know, unless you think that anyone is going to be willing to be...lets say a secret service agent or an immigration enforcement officer...if they're not going to get paid, and are fine with not backfilling those individuals with anyone stupid enough to work without getting paid because we'd have no one to deal with hiring them, and even if we did they couldn't really do the job because we'd have no one training them.

Seriously, it shouldn't take me having to explain to you why ****ING PAYING PEOPLE is kind of essential to the operation of the government in any kind of extended fashion.

(And before you say, well we could just contract it out....there are already contractor employees in some of those different sectors currently. Guess what, the vast majority of contractor positions are NON ESSENTIAL during a shutdown, so that answer wouldn't work)

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Durbin-Graham is permanent amnesty. I'm glad President Trump ****canned it.

So he will have the blame for the shutdown.

 

[apdst]

So he will have the blame for the shutdown.

He'll be credited for putting the brakes on permanent amnesty. Good decision on his part.

 

[apdst]

In the long run...yes. People who's job is to hire employees, people who's job is to pay employees, people who's job is to train employees, people who's gobs is to maintain the spaces and equipment those people use to do their jobs, are essential to the basic operation of government. They're the type of things that can be neglected and ignored for short periods of time, especially during periods where people aren't being paid or hired, but not over any kind of extended period of time. Thus the problem with trying to treat people who are "non-essential" during a government shutdown as being similarly "non-essential" in a general, broader, long term sense.

You know, unless you think that anyone is going to be willing to be...lets say a secret service agent or an immigration enforcement officer...if they're not going to get paid, and are fine with not backfilling those individuals with anyone stupid enough to work without getting paid because we'd have no one to deal with hiring them, and even if we did they couldn't really do the job because we'd have no one training them.

Seriously, it shouldn't take me having to explain to you why ****ING PAYING PEOPLE is kind of essential to the operation of the government in any kind of extended fashion.

(And before you say, well we could just contract it out....there are already contractor employees in some of those different sectors currently. Guess what, the vast majority of contractor positions are NON ESSENTIAL during a shutdown, so that answer wouldn't work)

I'm going to exit the merry-go-round with: if they aren't essential, they don't need to be there, to begin with.

 

[Ahlevah]

A wall is a complete waste of money....

Why is that? Israel has a wall. It does a pretty good job. Have any Democrats bothered asking the people charged with border security about that? If they have, they've played deaf and dumb. I get it. They see more Democrats in the future. Meanwhile, what do the people who risk their lives every day enforcing U.S. law have to say about that? Here's a clue:

When President Trump spoke to people at the Department of Homeland Security yesterday, Brandon Judd was in the audience. He's president of the union that represents U.S. Border Patrol agents, the National Border Patrol Council, which endorsed Trump during the campaign. He was present to hear the president say he's going ahead with building a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, among other immigration measures, and he's in our studio this morning. Mr. Judd, welcome back to the program.

BRANDON JUDD: Good morning, Steve.

INSKEEP: So how different is the border going to be assuming that the president's orders are carried out here?

JUDD: I don't think it's going to be - well, OK, it's going to be a lot more secure. But what we're talking about is we're talking about a wall in strategic locations. We're not talking about a great wall of the United States. We're not talking about a continuous wall from California down to Texas. We're talking about a wall in strategic locations which then helps the Border Patrol agents do their job better.

INSKEEP: Because there are some places that are so sparsely populated and the ground is so fierce or so harsh you really don't need...

JUDD: Correct, correct.

https://www.npr.org/2017/01/26/511745401/head-of-border-patrol-union-on-trumps-wall-plans

 

[PTF]

The [first] Trump shutdown of our government, but probably not the last for the "master negotiator".

It is a Trump/GOP shutdown ... they control the executive and legislative branches of government.

Unlike repealing Obamacare and the tax giveaway, the GOP can't ram this legislation through with only 50 votes. They are going to have to learn the meaning of compromise.

And if I was a Dem Congresscritter, I wouldn't trust the GOP leadership one iota after they reneged on promises to Sen. Susan Collins (R/ME) for her tax vote.

If Dems stare down Trump in Dreamer shutdown showdown, they will win

It's the Demos who refuses to compromise.
This week our President Trump is willing to sign without any sanctioning in order to keep the government open.
What does these Demos do ?
Flat our refuse to negotiate.
The liberal/Demos continues proving to America they cannot be trusted. Yet they keep rubbing salt in the wound by referring our President as a bigot.
Such deliberate troublemakers.

 

[Linc]

This is the most misleading bull**** that's always posted. Furthermore you contradict yourself.

Wall Street Journal with Kamikaze Kruz and his TEAts in 2013. Now it's Spineless Cotton and his FREEdumbs ...

 

[Absentglare]

No, it's not, just like the 2013 shutdown wasn't a "Obama/Democrat shutdown" controlling 2/3rds of that same set.

If the Republicans can't get anything past the House, then they are primarily at fault. If they can send something over to the Senate and the Democrats filibuster it...ESPECIALLY over matters like DACA that have nothing to do with actual funding and budgeting of the government...then they are at the very least equally at fault for the clownshow that is our governments ability to do one of the most basic of duties, funding itself.

I feel perfectly comfortable going back to 2013 and showing if my stances regarding fault and a shutdown are consistent...would you be?

Dems had a majority of the senate but not the house.

Dems haven't had a majority in the house since the historic gerrymandering of 2010 where the house flipped from a dem majority of 255-179 to a dem minority of 193-242 in the 112th congress.

Shep was reporting on Fox News that this is the first time that a single party has been in charge of Washington to set up a government shutdown.

 

[Absentglare]

Indeed. I'm incredibly happy that people don't suddenly become ignorant of how the government works whenever it becomes advantageous for their ****ty political points

Spoiler

Yes, I know that people absolutely do feign ignorance of how government works when it suits their purposes. your post is a great example of that.

If republicans weren't such hard obstructionists on passing CHIP with the tax bill or on neglecting to undo DACA, they wouldn't be in this mess. They started to dismantle government, and they get responsibility for that. Dems standing up for the little guys that republicans are abusing to out purity test one another is just part of reality asserting itself. I don't know how anyone can dare to attack dems for fighting so that children can have healthcare and so that dreamers don't simply face deportation.

Republicans have been such hard obstructionists for so long, it's all they know. Enough of them in congress are shameless attention whores trying to out do one another on how crazy hard right they are, they can't form a consensus. The incoherently schizophrenic "leadership" from the white house isn't helping.

 

[Absentglare]

Only the most partisan hacks among us who blamed the republicans for the shutdown under obama will blame trump and the GOP if this one happens. Doesn't the raging hypocrisy bother any of you folks?



I wonder if trump will use capitol police to keep dying WWII veterans out of an unstaffed memorial pavilion like Obama did.

False equivalency. Republicans used their gerrymander-secured majority in the house to force the shutdown.

 

[Rogue Valley]

No, it's not, just like the 2013 shutdown wasn't a "Obama/Democrat shutdown" controlling 2/3rds of that same set.

If the Republicans can't get anything past the House, then they are primarily at fault. If they can send something over to the Senate and the Democrats filibuster it...ESPECIALLY over matters like DACA that have nothing to do with actual funding and budgeting of the government...then they are at the very least equally at fault for the clownshow that is our governments ability to do one of the most basic of duties, funding itself.

Trump doesn't want any bipartisan compromise on immigration matters. Any such trade-offs would severely alienate his base.

Even now, with a govt. shutdown mere hours away, "Art of the Deal" Trump is at Mar-a-Lago golfing and draining the wallets of donors instead of in DC working his supposed leadership "magic".

 

[TheRepublican]

A wall is a complete waste of money, the stupidity of right wingers that think a wall is needed and will do anything at all is astounding. Even more absurd from those that always whine about democrats spending, but your OK with pissing away billions on a stupid wall, plus billions more to maintain and keep it up?

Go build the stupid wall, and real AMericans will keep blowing that stupid **** up

I’m not one of those people who want a wall but, I’m not ok with an open boarder. The way I look at it is a wall or a electric fence? Why should we just shut up and, let these families or individual is allowed to come here? Is it ok to make it a requirement to go through the immigration process with a agent that would be with you from the time you file for citizenship to whenever you get your citizenship finalized process? Or is that racist or whatever?


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[Dittohead not!]

I’m not one of those people who want a wall but, I’m not ok with an open boarder. The way I look at it is a wall or a electric fence? Why should we just shut up and, let these families or individual is allowed to come here? Is it ok to make it a requirement to go through the immigration process with a agent that would be with you from the time you file for citizenship to whenever you get your citizenship finalized process? Or is that racist or whatever?


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Careful with the not wanting a wall. You could lose your Conservative Card.

Seriously, we don't need a wall to control the border, and a wall wouldn't control the border anyway. Many of the illegals fly in, some enter legally and overstay their visas, some arrive by boat. People and drugs come in via tunnels under the border. The picture of Mexicans all standing at a wall and saying, "Well, I guess we'd better just go home." is absurd. The wall is an expensive boondoggle that won't accomplish much of anything.

 

[Fiddytree]

Careful with the not wanting a wall. You could lose your Conservative Card.

Seriously, we don't need a wall to control the border, and a wall wouldn't control the border anyway. Many of the illegals fly in, some enter legally and overstay their visas, some arrive by boat. People and drugs come in via tunnels under the border. The picture of Mexicans all standing at a wall and saying, "Well, I guess we'd better just go home." is absurd. The wall is an expensive boondoggle that won't accomplish much of anything.

The wall is dumb as hell, but 18 billion for a bull**** photo op may be worth it for the press that will come later that it's an embarrassment.

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[TheRepublican]

Careful with the not wanting a wall. You could lose your Conservative Card.

Seriously, we don't need a wall to control the border, and a wall wouldn't control the border anyway. Many of the illegals fly in, some enter legally and overstay their visas, some arrive by boat. People and drugs come in via tunnels under the border. The picture of Mexicans all standing at a wall and saying, "Well, I guess we'd better just go home." is absurd. The wall is an expensive boondoggle that won't accomplish much of anything.

You are taking my voting rights! Typical loser. Here’s a serious question do you care what’s illegal or legal ?


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[Fiddytree]

You are taking my voting rights! Typical loser. Here’s a serious question do you care what’s illegal or legal ?


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I, too, like writing things that contain words that lose all meaning when put together.

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[TheRepublican]

If only the Democrats weren't the majority in Congress, the Republicans could no doubt pass a balanced budget on time and not have to play stupid political games.

Spoiler

Yes, I know Republicans are in charge, yes, that was sarcasm, please don't take it literally.

Yeah if democrats were in charge they would put more high taxes and regulations because they believe that the taxes would be the solution? Any chance of a democrat from Detroit? Did the neighbor come back or still banned ?
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[Fiddytree]

Yeah high taxes and regulations ridiculous thank goodness that we can flash our toilets because somehow we are creating pollution! You know what THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN BETWEEN THEN INDIA SO DO US A FAVOR AND PUT A BREAD TIE ON IT BECAUSE ITS NOT ONLY US!!!!! I am so “…” sick of hearing how’s our fault!


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I think the algorithm broke down.

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[Casper]

I think the algorithm broke down.

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Well some does seem to have snapped there, thinking it might be permanent.