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A friend's argument on guns, I like to hear your rebuttal

Great idea. Pick a weapon that is much harder to use accurately under stress and low light, as well as one that fires ammo that comparatively is much much worse at stopping a threat compared to a rifle.

A handgun is faster and easier to maneuver in close quarters, and in most most houses the range is so short accuracy is not a problem, more powerful ammunition is not a good idea in apartments or townhouses, and stopping power is not a primary concern in civilian use where causing the bad guy to leave is sufficient.

For your particular house you might feel a rifle is your better choice, but it would be a bad choice for my house.
 
And why did you bother having rifles and shotguns if your pistol was the best option. Why don't swat simply carry pistols.

Holy cow you have no idea that swat has a different mission from patrol? You have no idea when patrol DOES pull out the rifles and shotguns? Dude....stop....just stop. Lol
 
A handgun is faster and easier to maneuver in close quarters, and in most most houses the range is so short accuracy is not a problem, more powerful ammunition is not a good idea in apartments or townhouses, and stopping power is not a primary concern in civilian use where causing the bad guy to leave is sufficient.

For your particular house you might feel a rifle is your better choice, but it would be a bad choice for my house.
You say accuracy is not a problem and yet the ratio of rounds fired to rounds that hit targets in the vast majority of police shootings tells a different story.
And you may think stopping power, which really isn't a real thing, may not seem important to you but I guarantee it will if the intruder in your house decides to return fire rather then run away. Lots of police have been killed by a criminal they have already shot.

And depending on the bullet you choose to use many ar rounds will penetrate fewer walls them many pistol rounds. Lightweight 556 rounds tend to break apart upon impact.

Look in the end I am not saying that a pistol is a horrible choice for HD just that people need to be aware of the downsides and know there may be better options out there.
 
Holy cow you have no idea that swat has a different mission from patrol? You have no idea when patrol DOES pull out the rifles and shotguns? Dude....stop....just stop. Lol


Their mission being didn't different doesn't change the fact that if they know they are likely to get in a gun fight they don't just bring their pistols. You know it and I know it. And when did I ever say just patrol. Oh thats right I didn't you are just dishonestly making that up.
But tell us if a patrol cop is responding to a shots fired call and they have a rifle in their car are they more or less likely to grab that rifle. We both know the answer but let's see if you are honest enough to answer it.
So it is you that should stop before you embarrass yourself any further.
 
Their mission being didn't different doesn't change the fact that if they know they are likely to get in a gun fight they don't just bring their pistols. You know it and I know it. And when did I ever say just patrol. Oh thats right I didn't you are just dishonestly making that up.
But tell us if a patrol cop is responding to a shots fired call and they have a rifle in their car are they more or less likely to grab that rifle. We both know the answer but let's see if you are honest enough to answer it.
So it is you that should stop before you embarrass yourself any further.

Dude you just admitted a handgun is fine for home defense but you wanted to take a shot at me because that is my first choice. Major fail dude. Major fail. Lol
 
Dude you just admitted a handgun is fine for home defense but you wanted to take a shot at me because that is my first choice. Major fail dude. Major fail. Lol

Really where did I say it was fine. Oh thats right no where. Perhaps you should learn to read.
And the reason I responded to you was because the silliness of you saying that you would replace the shotgun as the best weapon with a pistol implying that that is the best HD weapon needed to be laughed at.
But your being unable to answer the questions I asked is all the answer I need.
 
Really where did I say it was fine. Oh thats right no where. Perhaps you should learn to read.

But your being unable to answer the questions I asked is all the answer I need.

Shots fired? I responded with handguns most often.
 
Yeah I would probably run away if I were you as well. Save yourself the embarrassment of looking any more foolish.

You got something? Bring it. The handgun is the weapon of choice for millions of Americans for home defense. It is the weapon of choice for police officers all over the country. Those are facts.


You got nothing. Lol
 
You got something? Bring it. The handgun is the weapon of choice for millions of Americans for home defense. It is the weapon of choice for police officers all over the country. Those are facts.


You got nothing. Lol
And millions of Americans use ARs for HD.
And history process just how difficult it is for police to put rounds on target with their pistol.
And when police know they are likely to get in a shot out what weapon do they grab whenever possible. That is the only facts that matters.
 
And when police know they are likely to get in a shot out what weapon do they grab whenever possible. That is the only fact that matters.

That is most often their handgun
 
That is most often their handgun

And history process just how difficult it is for police to put rounds on target with their pistol.
And when police know they are likely to get in a shot out what weapon do they grab whenever possible. That is the only facts that matters.

And you and I both know that's not true. When police have the option they would rather take their rifle to a gunfight them their pistol. The fact that you are trying to argue otherwise just prove how little you care about being honest.
 
And history process just how difficult it is for police to put rounds on target with their pistol.
And when police know they are likely to get in a shot out what weapon do they grab whenever possible. That is the only facts that matters.

And you and I both know that's not true. When police have the option they would rather take their rifle to a gunfight them their pistol. The fact that you are trying to argue otherwise just prove how little you care about being honest.

Ok prove it. You are just flat out wrong but I will look at your evidence.


Let's see it.
 
So no evidence of what a cop uses every day to respond to dangerous calls all day long.


I think we all know the answer.


I'll just leave this here

A Beginner's Guide to Home Defense Guns :: Guns.com
It's funny how you keep moving the goal posts as I continually point out how weak your BS is.


My original claim was if a cop knows they are about to get in a gun fight and have the option they will grab their rifle. You can play silly games all you like but we both know it's true.
 
It's funny how you keep moving the goal posts as I continually point out how weak your BS is.


My original claim was if a cop knows they are about to get in a gun fight and have the option they will grab their rifle. You can play silly games all you like but we both know it's true.

Then why do some swat team members carry handguns only? That seems odd. Lol
 
Then why do some swat team members carry handguns only? That seems odd. Lol

What do the vast majority do. Come on you can be honest for once. It won't hurt you that much.
 
This was on a friend's Facebook page. I find the arguments compelling and I would like to hear those on the other side ----conservatives and Libertarians Etc-- their rebuttal of the arguments

( copied with permission)


Leonidas Christian Mixon

“We have a gun problem and a bull**** problem in the United States. Let me start by saying I am a gun owner. I have been since I was 6. I’ve had jobs that required me to carry a weapon. I’ve been shot at more than once. I’ve disarmed people who were trying to kill me. This isn’t coming from someone who doesn’t understand guns. It’s precisely because I do understand them that I’m going to call out the bull**** that stops us from having the reforms to gun laws that we needed years ago. If you want to debate any of the points below, I have no problem.
These are simple facts.

1) I need an assault rifle for home defense.

No, you don’t. A short barreled shotgun is the best tool for home defense. And that only counts if you’re insanely proficient with it and you get incredibly lucky. The likelihood you will get the chance to use it is next to zero. If you do, you’re very likely to kill a member of your family accidentally. In a REAL altercation, you don’t get to choose your field of fire. It happens incredibly fast, usually in the dark. If you’re popping off with a rifle, you are going to hit things you don’t intend to. Guns are tools. Period. Assault Rifles are intended to be used on a battlefield. Battlefield tactics don’t work in your house. It’s a bull**** argument.

2) I need to protect myself from a tyrannical Government...

Holy **** that’s stupid. That idea was from a time when the state of war was much more level. It isn’t now. At all. If an armored transport shows up on your front lawn with a 50 cal on the roof, you and your AK are ****ing toast. Soldiers train, and their weapons are an extension of their body. You will instantly lose. And before you bring up guerrilla fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq... you need a reality check. Those people were born in a country that was at war, on their soil, for their entire lives. You don’t compare to that on your best day. And they die in FAR greater numbers than they kill.

3) Gun registration, background checks, etc are a slippery slope to confiscation.

Bull****. We register cars. We have to prove proficiency to operate them. We are required to have insurance in the event we cause damage with them. It’s been that way for decades, and no one is “coming to take your car”. Making sure people have the barest minimum of responsibility doesn’t lead to loss. Fear of loss leads to fundraising and bull****. It’s not rational.

4) My gun is a right that can’t be modified.

Again, utter bull****. You can’t own a howitzer unless the barrel is full of concrete. You can’t own a cannon manufactured in the last century. You can’t own a fully automatic weapon without a FFL. That’s why those things are rarely used in crimes. And all of that is based on an amendment to our constitution that can be changed if we as a country see fit to do so. We have changed amendments before and we will again. If you don’t understand that you need a history lesson and a dictionary.

Creating common sense laws that put speed bumps in the way of lunatics helps. Every time. Automobile licenses, speed limits, etc don’t end accidents, but they make them less frequent and less deadly. It’s a proven concept. The time for bull**** excuses is over. It’s time to step up and take responsibility. **** this stupidity.”

1. No one needs much except food, water, shelter. People want AR15's for home defense. A rifle is more precise than a shotgun. What if your home is a ranch and you face Mexican cartels? AN AR15 FRIGGIN' IS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. Yes. You do. The US military cannot win a guerilla war against rice farmers or goat herders and definitely would lose on home soil. The military itself would fracture if a civil war broke out. It's happened! You honestly think these intolerant SJW Berkeley grads are going to respect the Constitution if elected to office?

3. My car was stolen. That was a big mother compared to my gun my law enforcement brother stole. How is registration going to prevent that? Registration can lead to confiscation without due process. I agree with background checks.

4. "Arms" in 1791 was an infantry combat load. A right that shall not be infringed. The most people killed in a year of mass shootings that wad panties was 117 out of 425 million residents, illegals, and tourists. 300 people die falling from ladders, 300 from electrocution, over 40 on skateboards.

Why don't we save more than 117 lives by dropping the speed limit? The media is creating hysteria. 1 shark attack = a headline. 2 = a pattern. 3 = SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!
 
This was on a friend's Facebook page. I find the arguments compelling and I would like to hear those on the other side ----conservatives and Libertarians Etc-- their rebuttal of the arguments

( copied with permission)


Leonidas Christian Mixon

“We have a gun problem and a bull**** problem in the United States. Let me start by saying I am a gun owner. I have been since I was 6. I’ve had jobs that required me to carry a weapon. I’ve been shot at more than once. I’ve disarmed people who were trying to kill me. This isn’t coming from someone who doesn’t understand guns. It’s precisely because I do understand them that I’m going to call out the bull**** that stops us from having the reforms to gun laws that we needed years ago. If you want to debate any of the points below, I have no problem.
These are simple facts.

1) I need an assault rifle for home defense.

No, you don’t. A short barreled shotgun is the best tool for home defense. And that only counts if you’re insanely proficient with it and you get incredibly lucky. The likelihood you will get the chance to use it is next to zero. If you do, you’re very likely to kill a member of your family accidentally. In a REAL altercation, you don’t get to choose your field of fire. It happens incredibly fast, usually in the dark. If you’re popping off with a rifle, you are going to hit things you don’t intend to. Guns are tools. Period. Assault Rifles are intended to be used on a battlefield. Battlefield tactics don’t work in your house. It’s a bull**** argument.

2) I need to protect myself from a tyrannical Government...

Holy **** that’s stupid. That idea was from a time when the state of war was much more level. It isn’t now. At all. If an armored transport shows up on your front lawn with a 50 cal on the roof, you and your AK are ****ing toast. Soldiers train, and their weapons are an extension of their body. You will instantly lose. And before you bring up guerrilla fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq... you need a reality check. Those people were born in a country that was at war, on their soil, for their entire lives. You don’t compare to that on your best day. And they die in FAR greater numbers than they kill.

3) Gun registration, background checks, etc are a slippery slope to confiscation.

Bull****. We register cars. We have to prove proficiency to operate them. We are required to have insurance in the event we cause damage with them. It’s been that way for decades, and no one is “coming to take your car”. Making sure people have the barest minimum of responsibility doesn’t lead to loss. Fear of loss leads to fundraising and bull****. It’s not rational.

4) My gun is a right that can’t be modified.

Again, utter bull****. You can’t own a howitzer unless the barrel is full of concrete. You can’t own a cannon manufactured in the last century. You can’t own a fully automatic weapon without a FFL. That’s why those things are rarely used in crimes. And all of that is based on an amendment to our constitution that can be changed if we as a country see fit to do so. We have changed amendments before and we will again. If you don’t understand that you need a history lesson and a dictionary.

Creating common sense laws that put speed bumps in the way of lunatics helps. Every time. Automobile licenses, speed limits, etc don’t end accidents, but they make them less frequent and less deadly. It’s a proven concept. The time for bull**** excuses is over. It’s time to step up and take responsibility. **** this stupidity.”

I pretty much agree with all those points.

I also own a gun, deer hunting rifle. 30-06 semi auto.

Unless the 2A is completely ignored or ammended, guns will always be a part of American culture.
And we will always have society imposing limits on 2A. Citizens are not a well regulated militia and can NOT own the same weapons as a well regulated militia.
 
theres nothing to argue really that was all feelings and opinions mostly . . nothing magical or discussion ending in anyway

ill make the same post i do in most of these threads


Ill probably support ANY gun law as long as it doesn't punish me (law-abiding citizen), endanger me and my loved ones while also empowering criminals.
Many new laws suggested do just that

Make laws that punish CRIMINAL activity and CRIMINALS with guns oand enforce the many laws already on the books
Punsh ILLEGAL manufacturing, distribution and transportation of guns

Do things that will actually help and wont put me at risk and i can get on board

The entire gun debate is nothing but emotion and feelings.
And where each person draws their line in the sand.
 
What do the vast majority do. Come on you can be honest for once. It won't hurt you that much.


Here's some more rope...

Are the swat members carrying handguns just stupid? Lol
 
Here's some more rope...

Are the swat members carrying handguns just stupid? Lol

For every video of a swat team conducting a raid with just pistols I can provide many more of them doing so with rifles.

But please tell us if a pistol is the best weapon to use in the house why do swat teams as well as all the military units that focus on CQB all use rifles as their primary weapon.

We both know if you give am honest answer to that question it will destroy your argument. Let's see if you can be honest for even one post.

That you continue to argue this just shows how little care you have for actual honest discussions. But please continue I am getting a big laugh out of your twisting and squirming to avoid answering questions. Plus it demonstrates to the whole forum just what type of poster you are.
 
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