12+ million illegal immigrants

[ClaraD]

Hispanics are 39% of the population, and illegal numbers are intentionally hard to quantify. For example, a California drivers license looks identical except with an unobtrusive banner “Federal limits apply” - IOW, illegal alien. No state agency will publicly divulge the true numbers of illegals. An employer can’t use citizenship as a qualification either, BTW, even though it is a violation of state law.

At the state level there is no difference between an illegal alien and a US citizen. There are benefits to being illegal. Veteran housing is full of illegals with dependent children and veterans are homeless.

As citizens, we have no right to know.

an employer cannot use citizenship as a quantification, but they can use legal status...the I-9 is specifically for that purpose..and they have e verify if they are so inclined to use it.

You are intentionally dodging...being 39% or being brown does not make your argument valid...how in the hell do you know if a person is illegal by looking at them? How do you come to your ...I know it is more than 12 million only in California?

 

[rickc]

an employer cannot use citizenship as a quantification, but they can use legal status...the I-9 is specifically for that purpose..and they have e verify if they are so inclined to use it.

You are intentionally dodging...being 39% or being brown does not make your argument valid...how in the hell do you know if a person is illegal by looking at them? How do you come to your ...I know it is more than 12 million only in California?

Yep the I-9. A properly filled out l-9 protects an employer from any legal problems from hiring an illegal worker.

No need to verify worker status. No need to file the I-9 with any governmental agency. Just file it and have it ready in case ICE shows up.

 

[Kreton]

Open the borders and double or triple that number.

 

[Jason Warfield]

It's capitalism.

They are willing to work during COVID, get paid squat with no real benefits.

Americans: I want a job where I get paid a living wage, I get the hours I want, the days off I want, I want my employer to provide a matching 401K and health benefits, I don't want to work a job that exposes me to COVID, I don't want to do lawn care or pick meat out of crabs or work in crappy conditions at a meat packaging plant and I don't have the skills for an IT or development job, but I want the pay they get and oh, BTW, I'm anti-union...but I want the same things unions want...

If you are an employer who wants to maximize your dollars in labor, odds are you will go for the guy who costs the least. And right now....that means illegals. Not the precious Karens and Darrens of America....

 

[swing_voter]

If we give Trump another 4 years, will he deport the 12+ million illegal immigrants then?

(Trump's had hundreds of illegal immigrants working for him at times.)

 

[SmartCat]

If we give Trump another 4 years, will he deport the 12+ million illegal immigrants then?

(Trump's had hundreds of illegal immigrants working for him at times.)

I doubt it. Immigration is an issue that divides the Republican Donor Class from the Republican base. By competing for jobs immigrants enable employers to lower wages. By competing for places to live immigrants enable landlords to raise rents. That is why the Republican Donor Class wants more immigrants. It is why the Republican base wants immigration to be severely restricted. When Republican politicians run for office they tell the Republican base what it wants to hear. When Republican politicians win office they do what their contributors in the Republican Donor Class tell them to do, which is to let more immigrants in.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity have conned more people in their lives than Donald Trump. Because they do it through the media.

 

[SmartCat]

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity have conned more people in their lives than Donald Trump. Because they do it through the media.

The lies of Rush Limbaugh have been documented at least since 1994. Limbaugh has made a fortune telling his poorly informed ditto heads lies they want to believe. He trained them to believe Trump's lies.

 

[CaughtInThe]

The lies of Rush Limbaugh have been documented at least since 1994. Limbaugh has made a fortune telling his poorly informed ditto heads lies they want to believe. He trained them to believe Trump's lies.

he and Sean set the stage for "Republicans" to accept a "Trump".

 

[Court Jester]

US citizens born in the US are US citizens..doesn't matter who their parents are...the children born here are not illegal immigrants.

I reject that as false. Anyone "subject to the jurisdiction" of another nation no matter if they are born in U.S. territory is a citizen of that nation. Proof is that if a Mexican national has her baby here in the USA while on vacation, but wants to return to Mexico but someone here wants to claim the child as a "US citizen" and she disagrees, Mexico will say that baby is a MEXICAN CITIZEN one "subject to the jurisdiction of Mexico". Therefore it can't be both ways.

Unless a person is a "stateless person" they will be subject to the jurisdiction of their home nation. The 14th Amendment was intended to give citizenship to freed slaves who would otherwise be "stateless persons" even as it was CLEAR that they were in fact "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States". Something BTW that the 14th Amendment did not extend to American Indian tribes at the time, but has since been changed. Reason American Indians were NOT covered by the 14th Amendment at the time it was enacted was because American Indians were "subject to the jurisdiction" of their own individual tribes. They were not at that time citizens of the United States.

Anchor babies are in effect a perversion of the intent of the 14th Amendment. The situation flies in the face of common sense, and there are to my knowledge few if any SOVEREIGN nations which extend birth right citizenship to children born inside their borders----especially those there as a result of a crime (illegal immigration).

 

[danielpalos]

There are 12+ million illegal immigrants currently living and working in America.

Do you care?

We should cut spending and abolish our nanny-State, right wingers. We have no immigration clause in our federal Constitution.

 

[SmartCat]

he and Sean set the stage for "Republicans" to accept a "Trump".

I like to investigate different points of view. What I require in a commentator is honesty. If someone has a record for deliberately lying, I pay no attention to anything he says.

 

[CaughtInThe]

I like to investigate different points of view. What I require in a commentator is honesty. If someone has a record for deliberately lying, I pay no attention to anything he says.

it's an interesting dilemma. if enough people ignore the extremists you wake up one day and a horrible person (Germany, Russia, Cambodia, etc) is in power.

 

[ReubenSherr]

There are 12+ million illegal immigrants currently living and working in America.

Do you care?

If they came here before Trump took office, let them stay, Obama wasn't clear enough about immigration enforcement.

But from this point on, people need to immigrate here in an organized fashion, and wait their turn in line like everyone else. Excessive immigration will tank our economy.

 

[SmartCat]

it's an interesting dilemma. if enough people ignore the extremists you wake up one day and a horrible person (Germany, Russia, Cambodia, etc) is in power.

I view the popularity of Rush Limbaugh as more of a symptom than a problem. He got his start during the late 1980's because the mainstream media was too liberal for many Americans, and they wanted to hear someone articulate their values, concerns, and goals. One does not get places in politics by changing people's minds. One gets places by articulating and channeling sentiments people already have.

If during the late 1920's a pollster had asked a representative sample of Germans, "Do you want Germany to conquer the mainland of Europe, and kill all the Jews there?" The vast majority would have answered with a loud "No!" Even many members of the Nazi Party would have said that they did not desire that.

If the same pollster had asked, "Are you angry about your circumstances in life, and the circumstances Germany is in? Do you blame Germany's enemies in the last war, and rich Jews for those circumstances?" a majority probably would have answered "Yes." Those were the circumstances Hitler had to work with, and he worked with them successfully.

 

[Luther]

Are you sure?

Very sure

 

[Luther]

Legal workers create problems because are more likely to form unions, file grievances over working conditions.

The illegal immigrant is the backbone of our economic prosperity, and make perfect scapegoats for people left out of it.

That was a great job of poo pooing our illegal immigration problem

 

[Luther]

They would probably rather fly under the radar, if you know what I mean.

That doesn't Change what I said

if you know what I mean

 

[Luther]

Non-sequitur. :roll:

True story

 

[ClaraD]

I reject that as false. Anyone "subject to the jurisdiction" of another nation no matter if they are born in U.S. territory is a citizen of that nation. Proof is that if a Mexican national has her baby here in the USA while on vacation, but wants to return to Mexico but someone here wants to claim the child as a "US citizen" and she disagrees, Mexico will say that baby is a MEXICAN CITIZEN one "subject to the jurisdiction of Mexico". Therefore it can't be both ways.

Unless a person is a "stateless person" they will be subject to the jurisdiction of their home nation. The 14th Amendment was intended to give citizenship to freed slaves who would otherwise be "stateless persons" even as it was CLEAR that they were in fact "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States". Something BTW that the 14th Amendment did not extend to American Indian tribes at the time, but has since been changed. Reason American Indians were NOT covered by the 14th Amendment at the time it was enacted was because American Indians were "subject to the jurisdiction" of their own individual tribes. They were not at that time citizens of the United States.

Anchor babies are in effect a perversion of the intent of the 14th Amendment. The situation flies in the face of common sense, and there are to my knowledge few if any SOVEREIGN nations which extend birth right citizenship to children born inside their borders----especially those there as a result of a crime (illegal immigration).

You are absolutely wrong about that. If a person is born in the US, they are subject to the jurisdiction of the US...the parents are clearly at the moment they are living here, also subject to the jurisdiction of the US...if they weren't...they could not be prosecuted or even arrested for any crimes in the US. You wanting to deny that is incredible...also, illegal immigrants are legally required to file tax returns for any income they earn...all foreign individuals are, except diplomats....they are also required to be subject to the draft in case one is called for war....hard to argue that you can send that person to war, yet they aren't subject to our jurisidiction.

 

[Deepnation10009]

True story

True or not, it's 100% not relevant to this topic.

 

[danielpalos]

Abolish nanny-State spending right wingers. There is no immigration clause in our federal Constitution and we should have no illegals or illegal underclass.

 

[Luce]

There are 12+ million illegal immigrants currently living and working in America.

Do you care?

Nope.

 

[Court Jester]

You are absolutely wrong about that. If a person is born in the US, they are subject to the jurisdiction of the US...the parents are clearly at the moment they are living here, also subject to the jurisdiction of the US...if they weren't...they could not be prosecuted or even arrested for any crimes in the US.

That isn't what that meant when the 14th Amendment was enacted. OF COURSE anyone within our jurisdiction is subject to our laws, but one the intents of the 14th Amendment was to assure that former slaves AND their children would be treated as United States citizens as they were in fact subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. In other words they were not stateless persons after they were emancipated; they were not automatically in a no mans land not knowing if they were now citizens of the U.S. or citizens of some African nation most were not even still able to know which ones they originated from.

When a Mexican woman plops out a kid on our soil she is still a Mexican citizen--- so her kid should be one too. And the test for that is that if she wants to return to Mexico and take the kid, Mexico considers that child a Mexican citizen who is subject to the jurisdiction (speaking of citizenship jurisdiction) of Mexico. If a diplomat's wife has a child here in the USA is that child automatically a US citizen? No it is not.

You wanting to deny that is incredible...also, illegal immigrants are legally required to file tax returns for any income they earn...all foreign individuals are, except diplomats....they are also required to be subject to the draft in case one is called for war....hard to argue that you can send that person to war, yet they aren't subject to our jurisidiction.

Illegal immigrants may be "required to" do many things but most don't follow the laws. The first one of course not come here illegally in the first place. Then after that the almost sickening way many of them steal or fraudulently use social security identification that is not theirs. A felony which SHOULD result in immediate removal and deportation when found out, AND then NEVER being allowed to return or apply for citizenship under any circumstances; a punishment for their fraud.

Now if you want to talk about a foreign national who is willing to serve in the military for lets say at least ten years and then EARN citizenship, then I am okay with that. Sort of the way the French may grant citizenship to those who served in the French foreign legion. I have no issue with someone honorably EARNING citizenship. But stealing it, screw that! Send them home!

And btw, "there ain't no draft no more".

 

[Schism]

Good Lord, yes. It's made my goods and services cheaper. And with wages stagnant for the middle class for a generation, its been a godsend.

"It's made my goods and services cheaper."

Just let that comment sink in....

The left support slave wages, poor working conditions, pay that falls below a living wage...not for themselves, of course, but for imported workers. The elite liberal class wants their lawns manicured and their Whole Foods well stocked with organic produce, but at cut rate prices.

If the meat packing industry paid a fair wage, plus health benefits, retirement savings, etc, you couldn't afford hamburger. Therefore, the left want open borders. Slave wages and cheap labor with no workplace protections.

Have you noticed the democrats have abandoned the unions in all but lip service? Because they no longer care about laborers, but rather Wall Street investors and bankers. The same bankers Hillary gave her secret speeches to.

The only moral and ethical solution is Legal Immigration, with legit wages, health care, work place safety, training, opportunity for advancement, and a path to citizenship or permanent resident status.

It's time to stop exploiting this vulnerable, and desperate people group for cheap goods and services. Just like it's time we stop supporting slave wages and sweat shops abroad, and bring our manufacturing home.