1. Trump is in over his head

[SoCal]

Explain Flynns deal then. Why hasnt he been charged with treason? Why hasnt anyone? In fact, why hasnt anyone been charged with anything in relation to the 2016 campaign?

Well you proved me wrong. He's only been charged with lesser crimes that will result in very little or no time served because he gave up Numnuts or other high officials to Mueller.

Although five very close associates have pleaded guilty to committing crimes in their effort to help Trump, no one has been charged because Mueller's investigation is ongoing. It's rumored that he'll wind it up soon, but even if it takes another year, it'll be less time than the Whitewater investigation.

It might be entertaining to speculating on what he'll be charged with, but I'll hold off and wait for the results. They'll be plenty to debate then...

 

[markjs]

Why hasnt Flynn been charged with treason then? In fact, if Flynn is such a monster why did prosecutors recommend zero prison time?

Why did the judge, who could read the redactions, threaten prison anyway, ask if it rose to the level of Treason and said he "sold out his country", oh yeah of course because it's a nothing burger right? No because you live in a delusional alt-right reality.:roll:

 

[markjs]

Being a secret foreign agent while accepting an appointment to the NSA is pretty guilty of "crimes against this country" don't you think? Is there anything you won't forgive to cover for this criminal President? I don't know what he told Mueller but I do understand your concern and I bet Trump does too.

Guys like him would be secretly ecstatic to KNOW Trump committed actual treason and got away with it.

 

[Fletch]

Well you proved me wrong. He's only been charged with lesser crimes that will result in very little or no time served because he gave up Numnuts or other high officials to Mueller.

That is what you think, but there is ZERO evidence that that is true. If you want to believe that there was some sort of criminal conspiracy you would first have to identify the conspirators. No one has done that and after two years, no one has been charged with any wrongdoing in the 2016 election. If you believe Flynn gave something up on Trump, what was it? If Trump engaged in criminal activity and Flynn helped him do that, why in the hell should Flynn walk free? Answer: he shouldnt. And wouldnt. When Mueller finally charges someone in the Trump orbit of criminal conduct or conspiracy in the 2016 election, then there would be reason to believe something took place. Until then you guys are just the new 9/11 Truthers.

Although five very close associates have pleaded guilty to committing crimes in their effort to help Trump,

Thats false.

no one has been charged because Mueller's investigation is ongoing. It's rumored that he'll wind it up soon, but even if it takes another year, it'll be less time than the Whitewater investigation.

If there was a criminal conspiracy, there would be conspirators in jail by now. There arent.

It might be entertaining to speculating on what he'll be charged with, but I'll hold off and wait for the results. They'll be plenty to debate then...

I realize that, but the chants of "Trump is guilty" have been echoing from your side for over two years. All I am asking of people who think he is guilty, what exactly, do they think he is guilty of. Thats strikes me as a fair question.

 

[Fletch]

Guys like him would be secretly ecstatic to KNOW Trump committed actual treason and got away with it.

Guys like who?

 

[Fletch]

Why did the judge, who could read the redactions, threaten prison anyway, ask if it rose to the level of Treason and said he "sold out his country", oh yeah of course because it's a nothing burger right? No because you live in a delusional alt-right reality.:roll:

The judge walked those comment back. Try and pay attention.

 

[D_NATURED]

We endured Obama for 8 bad years. Democrats can do the same with Trump in charge.

Comparing Obama to Trump is never going to make you look like a conscious being. Obama was Trump's superior in so many ways, intellectually, morally and in terms of temperament. He comprehended the issues, unlike your fat, orange fascist ever has.

 

[markjs]

The judge walked those comment back. Try and pay attention.

ONLY the treason remark. He still said he "sold out his country" and would have given him time, destroying your narrative.:roll:

 

[uptower]

Theres your answer.

That only answers part of the question - the public side of it. He has a tendency to telegraph what he's really thinking which he then must either cover with a lie (sometimes just denying he said even when it's on tape, such as his reasons for firing Comey) or pretending it was an off-the-cuff remark that needs to be qualified (such as his back and forth over how much of a wall he's really hoping for). This has been fairly consistent for the past three years as candidate then president.

So if he says 'let's ask the Russians for dirt' publicly just to get a cheer from a stadium full of red hats and yet his people are secretly meeting Russians behind the scenes, which is it? Apparently there's enough there for a bipartisan congress and his own DOJ to start an investigation. Remember the Dems didn't have a majority at that point.

And no if they uncover other criminal operations in the course of that investigation it is not a witch-hunt. Since Trump commits much of his crimes in plain sight with the Rich Boy's refrain he's scraped by on his whole life, 'What are you gonna do about it?' there's apparently plenty of meat there for prosecutors. They would be remiss in their duty if they overlooked say, campaign finance violations, just because these are not directly related to the Russia probe. They've done the right thing referring these cases to relevant prosecutors.

And let us not forget the gravity of the 'Russia thing' either: a hostile foreign power used its intelligence apparatus to interfere with elections: it poisoned the discourse with social media, hacked party and private servers to release information that suited the candidate it preferred (and that Russia preferred a particular candidate ought to make us ask why); it even attempted to hack voting machines and records. And one candidate met with these people, championed their agenda and directly benefited from some of their actions in the election.

If I thought the president was innocent I would want this probe to keep going until it vindicated him.
If I thought the president was guilty of other crimes that came out in the was I'd want these investigated too.
But If I supported the president and suspected he was guilty I would call it a witch hunt and demand it be shut down.

 

[Fletch]

ONLY the treason remark. He still said he "sold out his country" and would have given him time, destroying your narrative.:roll:

And he 'sold out his country' how and what does it have to do with Trump or the election?

 

[OscarLevant]

So in other words you support a witch hunt against the guy.

Your question has an assumed premise which is false. Therefore, it cannot be answered until you prove the premise is true.

 

[SoCal]

...If you want to believe that there was some sort of criminal conspiracy you would first have to identify the conspirators. No one has done that and after two years, no one has been charged with any wrongdoing in the 2016 election...

I normally wouldn't respond to the same questions I already answered. But I'm laid up with two broke ribs and don't have much else to do, so you should feel very grateful. :2razz:

... If you believe Flynn gave something up on Trump, what was it? If Trump engaged in criminal activity and Flynn helped him do that, why in the hell should Flynn walk free? Answer: he shouldnt. And wouldnt...

No one knows what beans Flynn spilled on Trump. I suspect it has to do with witnessing his crimes, you might believe that because no one has a definitive answer, it means something, but it doesn't. No one can know until the investigation is complete.

Let me spell it out for you again in more detail. In a perfect world all criminals would confess all their crimes. In reality for many cases, it takes witnesses to 'rat out' criminals. Quite often witnesses who took part in the crimes being investigated confess and tell the truth about their fellow criminals in exchange for a reduced sentence. It may not be the preferred way for justice to be done, but if it's the only way for justice to be done, so be it.

Flynn voluntarily pleaded GUILTY to the crimes he committed, that's why he shouldn't and won't walk.

...When Mueller finally charges someone in the Trump orbit of criminal conduct or conspiracy in the 2016 election, then there would be reason to believe something took place. Until then you guys are just the new 9/11 Truthers...

You're correct, but it works both ways. Given that so many close associates have pleaded guilty, many think it's a good indication that Trump was involved in these crimes, but like you say, no one can know for sure until Mueller finishes. Until then everyone on both sides are only guessing.

"...If there was a criminal conspiracy, there would be conspirators in jail by now. There arent...

This investigation looks like it'll take less time than the Whitewater investigation, if they find enough evidence, the conspirators will be in jail soon enough. Have some patience...

...I realize that, but the chants of "Trump is guilty" have been echoing from your side for over two years. All I am asking of people who think he is guilty, what exactly, do they think he is guilty of. Thats strikes me as a fair question.

We've also been hearing chants from Numnuts and your side for two years that, "there was no collusion". Your question is fair, everyone can speculate one way or the other, but it means nothing. If you want to ask your question 100 times, knock yourself out.

Please tell me that your avatar isn't a self portrait...

 

[marke]

Comparing Obama to Trump is never going to make you look like a conscious being. Obama was Trump's superior in so many ways, intellectually, morally and in terms of temperament. He comprehended the issues, unlike your fat, orange fascist ever has.

Obama was smooth. Soft. Protected. Supported. Etc. Like a little baby depending on its mother for its every need. His resume included being allowed to work for ACORN, a radical racist voter fraud democrat organization whose purpose was to corrupt and undermine the elections process in strict favor of democrats. Obama even took part in advocating for reduced credit standards to make home buying easier for blacks with poor credit, and Clinton and the democrats obliged. Eight years later the nonsense mortgage credit policies brought down Wall Street, as many former banking regulators tried to tell the democrats for several years leading up to the crash.

 

[Fletch]

I


No one knows what beans Flynn spilled on Trump. I suspect it has to do with witnessing his crimes, you might believe that because no one has a definitive answer, it means something, but it doesn't. No one can know until the investigation is complete.

What crimes do you believe he witnessed?

Let me spell it out for you again in more detail. In a perfect world all criminals would confess all their crimes. In reality for many cases, it takes witnesses to 'rat out' criminals. Quite often witnesses who took part in the crimes being investigated confess and tell the truth about their fellow criminals in exchange for a reduced sentence. It may not be the preferred way for justice to be done, but if it's the only way for justice to be done, so be it.

You keep assuming that Flynn witnessed a crime by Trump but you refuse to identify what you think that crime is. Maybe prosecutors recommended no jail time because Flynn cooperated in Muellers overall investigation and had no dirt whatsoever on Trump. Notice how you guys never consider that possibility even though it is by far the most likely.

Flynn voluntarily pleaded GUILTY to the crimes he committed, that's why he shouldn't and won't walk.[/quote/]Yet prosecutors suggested to the judge that Flynn should do exactly that: walk. How come?

This investigation looks like it'll take less time than the Whitewater investigation, if they find enough evidence, the conspirators will be in jail soon enough. Have some patience...

I have patience. My question is for those who dont and are convinced that Trump is guilty. My question for them is: guilty of what?

We've also been hearing chants from Numnuts and your side for two years that, "there was no collusion". Your question is fair, everyone can speculate one way or the other, but it means nothing. If you want to ask your question 100 times, knock yourself out.

Again, the question is for those who are convinced of his guilt.

Please tell me that your avatar isn't a self portrait...

It is. I am 8 years old and able to run circles around liberals

 

[justabubba]

What crimes do you believe he witnessed?

You keep assuming that Flynn witnessed a crime by Trump but you refuse to identify what you think that crime is. Maybe prosecutors recommended no jail time because Flynn cooperated in Muellers overall investigation and had no dirt whatsoever on Trump. Notice how you guys never consider that possibility even though it is by far the most likely.

Flynn voluntarily pleaded GUILTY to the crimes he committed, that's why he shouldn't and won't walk.[/quote/]Yet prosecutors suggested to the judge that Flynn should do exactly that: walk. How come?



I have patience. My question is for those who dont and are convinced that Trump is guilty. My question for them is: guilty of what?

Again, the question is for those who are convinced of his guilt.

It is. I am 8 years old and able to run circles around liberals

some 8 year old just earned a cookie

 

[SoCal]

...won't walk.[/quote/]Yet prosecutors suggested to the judge that Flynn should do exactly that: walk. How come?..

I understand it was Mueller who in exchange for Flynn's cooperation, asked the judge to let him off with no time served. Although I thought state prosecutors were suggesting he serve time, or maybe it was wishful thinking on my part.

Your right again, Mueller did suggested that Flynn walk. He must have made Mueller very happy by giving him a lot of evidence and leads to follow if he requested his release. I hope he completes the investigation soon too...

 

[code1211]

LOL If Flynn was innocent or even thought there was not enough evidence to convict him he would not have plead guilty. There is no doubt about his guilt and we do not yet know the extent of that guilt.

We probably never will because it will never go to court.

The consistency connecting all of Mueller's indictments is that they don't go to court. Even if the indicted want to go to court, Mueller refuses to do so. Torture will produce confessions from the victims just to end the torture.

I find it amusing that liberals present themselves as the unassailable arbiters of goodness and truth while they embrace and employ the most disgusting and reprehensible tactics.

Applying unwarranted duress to citizens is against the law. It is also exactly what Mueller is doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_confession
<snip>
Forced confession

A forced confession is a confession obtained from a suspect or a prisoner by means of torture (including enhanced interrogation techniques) or other forms of duress.

Depending on the level of coercion used, a forced confession is not valid in revealing the truth.

The person being interrogated may agree to the story presented to him or even make up falsehoods himself in order to satisfy the interrogator and discontinue his suffering.[1]
<snip>

 

[markjs]

We probably never will because it will never go to court.

The consistency connecting all of Mueller's indictments is that they don't go to court. Even if the indicted want to go to court, Mueller refuses to do so. Torture will produce confessions from the victims just to end the torture.

I find it amusing that liberals present themselves as the unassailable arbiters of goodness and truth while they embrace and employ the most disgusting and reprehensible tactics.

Applying unwarranted duress to a citizens is against the law. It is also exactly what Mueller is doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_confession
<snip>
Forced confession
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
A forced confession is a confession obtained from a suspect or a prisoner by means of torture (including enhanced interrogation techniques) or other forms of duress.

Depending on the level of coercion used, a forced confession is not valid in revealing the truth.

The person being interrogated may agree to the story presented to him or even make up falsehoods himself in order to satisfy the interrogator and discontinue his suffering.[1]
<snip>

Except that everything you posted is pere fantasy bull**** drivel fed to you by alt-right political porn sites that has zero basis in truth. What was it the judge who saw the redactions said? "Sold your country out?"

No, unfortunately reality bears zero resemblance to your fantasies. All that "he said" has to have corroberating evidence and does. :Roll:

I'd say nice try, but I'd be lying. Typical weak fail more like it.

 

[code1211]

The court transcripts reveal that the judge asking many times in several different ways if he was satisfied with his counsel and his experience with the FBI that it was fair and that his guilty plea was just and based on the truth. He answered yes to every question

Apparently you are living in a bubble of unreality

The Judge was, in effect, asking if Flynn wanted his personal torture to resume and assure that similar torture tactics would be applied against his son.

Understandably, Flynn took the first exit from torture available.

How removed from reality do we need to be to accept impartiality in this travesty?

This decorated, 30 year veteran is being attacked after being swept up in this political attack perpetrated by forces attempting to unseat a serving president.

His biggest crime seems to be that he loudly opposed the party line that there was no remaining threat from Islamic Terror due to the enlightened leadership of BHO.

This is not to say that his judgement is perfect, but rather to assume from the outset that he is a patriot and restrain the governmental attacks to a reasonable level and severity.

 

[code1211]

Except that everything you posted is pere fantasy bull**** drivel fed to you by alt-right political porn sites that has zero basis in truth. What was it the judge who saw the redactions said? "Sold your country out?"

No, unfortunately reality bears zero resemblance to your fantasies. All that "he said" has to have corroberating evidence and does. :Roll:

I'd say nice try, but I'd be lying. Typical weak fail more like it.

He confessed to stop the torture. Full stop.

 

[jnug]

He confessed to stop the torture. Full stop.

Sorry...does not work that way. A defendant is asked by the Judge if he is pleading guilty because he is guilty. The Defendant must respond in the affirmative or his guilty plea is not accepted. Beyond being in fact guilty any other rational a defendant has is his own business.

 

[code1211]

Sorry...does not work that way. A defendant is asked by the Judge if he is pleading guilty because he is guilty. The Defendant must respond in the affirmative or his guilty plea is not accepted. Beyond being in fact guilty any other rational a defendant has is his own business.

Truth rarely results from torture.

This is proven once again by Mueller and his thugs.

 

[OscarLevant]

The Judge was, in effect, asking if Flynn wanted his personal torture to resume and assure that similar torture tactics would be applied against his son.

Understandably, Flynn took the first exit from torture available.

How removed from reality do we need to be to accept impartiality in this travesty?

This decorated, 30 year veteran is being attacked after being swept up in this political attack perpetrated by forces attempting to unseat a serving president.

His biggest crime seems to be that he loudly opposed the party line that there was no remaining threat from Islamic Terror due to the enlightened leadership of BHO.

This is not to say that his judgement is perfect, but rather to assume from the outset that he is a patriot and restrain the governmental attacks to a reasonable level and severity.

"In effect"?

That's not in the transcript.

Quit projecting into it your personal bias.

Ever heard of the term "breaking bad"?

FYI, Mueller, recognized this which is why he recommended no jail time.

Quit projecting.

 

[iguanaman]

We probably never will because it will never go to court.

The consistency connecting all of Mueller's indictments is that they don't go to court. Even if the indicted want to go to court, Mueller refuses to do so. Torture will produce confessions from the victims just to end the torture.

I find it amusing that liberals present themselves as the unassailable arbiters of goodness and truth while they embrace and employ the most disgusting and reprehensible tactics.

Applying unwarranted duress to citizens is against the law. It is also exactly what Mueller is doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_confession
<snip>
Forced confession

A forced confession is a confession obtained from a suspect or a prisoner by means of torture (including enhanced interrogation techniques) or other forms of duress.

Depending on the level of coercion used, a forced confession is not valid in revealing the truth.

The person being interrogated may agree to the story presented to him or even make up falsehoods himself in order to satisfy the interrogator and discontinue his suffering.[1]
<snip>

Manafort went to court and was found guilty. Mueller is working for the Fed and 90% of Fed indictments are plead and 90% of those that go to trial are convicted. The Feds do not indict without a preponderance of evidence of guilt. So Mueller is doing his job correctly. You are not.

 

[code1211]

"In effect"?

That's not in the transcript.

Quit projecting into it your personal bias.

Ever heard of the term "breaking bad"?

FYI, Mueller, recognized this which is why he recommended no jail time.

Quit projecting.

Flynn is bankrupted due to fighting the charges until he had no resources left to fight.

When his son was threatened to be victimized by the same tactics, that is when Mueller extorted the desired response, Flynn fell on his sword.

You can pretend this is justice in action or just open your eyes and SEE the truth.