‘Fat Leonard’ probe expands to ensnare more than 60 admirals

[JANFU]

Lol...what's stupid about it? There are 160 flag officers allowed in the active duty Navy, that's all Admiral ranks from O-7 to O-10. 60 Admirals being investigated composes 37.5%, which I'd say easily qualifies to be described as a "significant % of them".

How about you just hang your head in embarrassment, as you rightly should, and walk away.

You consider this insignificant? You consider that reports have shown that problems with FL billing were passed up the chain previously?
Now consider the power an Admiral has.
The connections they have, as it is an old boys club.

 

[Fishking]

I think 1 is one too many.

However, 60 + hundreds you're okay with. An insignificant amount. Not a problem with you unless corruption reaches into the tens of thousands.

No wonder your viewpoints are so skewered.

Uhh...the word I used was "significant", meaning large. Not "insignificant" meaning too small to matter.

 

[Fishking]

You consider this insignificant? You consider that reports have shown that problems with FL billing were passed up the chain previously?
Now consider the power an Admiral has.
The connections they have, as it is an old boys club.

Where are ya'll getting "insignificant" from?

 

[JANFU]

Where are ya'll getting "insignificant" from?

My apologies- misread the post.

 

[Fishking]

My apologies- misread the post.

I don't think you were the only one. You probably picked it up from Rogue.

 

[JANFU]

I don't think you were the only one. You probably picked it up from Rogue.

No one to blame but myself.

 

[Thoreau72]

America is such a corrupt place now.

It's time to decide to be better.

Thanks for the inspiration. Ike warned about it in 1961 and nobody listened.

I hate to tell you, but the bad guys won. Is the game over? I don't know.

 

[Rogue Valley]

You consider this insignificant? You consider that reports have shown that problems with FL billing were passed up the chain previously?
Now consider the power an Admiral has. The connections they have, as it is an old boys club.

Fish does consider the Fat Leonard investigation 'insignificant' in that there is 'not a significant enough (%) number of Admirals involved'. Read his posts.

 

[Goshin]

I didn't know we even HAD 60 Admirals.... :shock:



Is that pretty much ALL the Admirals??

 

[JANFU]

Fish does consider the Fat Leonard investigation 'insignificant' in that there is 'not a significant enough (%) number of Admirals involved'. Read his posts.

Well it is significant corruption that runs to the highest levels.
I recall 1 instance during my time in the Canadian Military- higher ranks up to CWO were involved in a theft ring. Only the Corporal went to jail.

 

[Goshin]

Okay... they must be saying "Admirals" when they mean "Flag officers". USN only has 9 full admirals (4 star).

The USN's legal limit for flag officers is 162. I don't know if there are actually that many. Flag officer is O-7 to O-10 including two ranks of Rear Adm, Vice-Admiral, and full Admiral. Full or four-star Admiral is not a permanent rank but is tied to a specific position, usually lasting 2-3 years but sometimes up to 8 years.

The rank of Commodore, once considered a "flag" rank, is no longer used by the USN. (I didn't know that, thought it might interest someone.)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy#Ships

 

[Hawkeye10]

Thanks for the inspiration. Ike warned about it in 1961 and nobody listened.

I hate to tell you, but the bad guys won. Is the game over? I don't know.

We got things wrong, in large part because of lack if caring about Right, and now we are going to crash.

1961 sounds about right in retrospect, it took us very few years after we Won WW2 with the help of others to get all fat happy and sloppy.

 

[Thoreau72]

We got things wrong, in large part because of lack if caring about Right, and now we are going to crash.

1961 sounds about right in retrospect, it took us very few years after we Won WW2 with the help of others to get all fat happy and sloppy.

We are only human. All those lofty principles we talk about are for civics class, not real life.

 

[Hawkeye10]

We are only human. All those lofty principles we talk about are for civics class, not real life.

We part ways there, given that we are both rational and irrational and as well both good and bad and as well both constructive and destructive a lot of the result has always depended upon how much will we have to be better. When most everyone is looking out for themselves and what they can get, not caring about lofty principles enough to try to obtain them, we get America @2017.

We did not have to crash, we could have been better, we did not want to be.

 

[Thoreau72]

We part ways there, given that we are both rational and irrational and as well both good and bad and as well both constructive and destructive a lot of the result has always depended upon how much will we have to be better. When most everyone is looking out for themselves and what they can get, not caring about lofty principles enough to try to obtain them, we get America @2017.

We did not have to crash, we could have been better, we did not want to be.

Of course "we" did not want to be that way, "we" being a very fluid description never defined, or defined on a subjective basis.

But "we" with our Judeo Christian Heritage were quite enthusiastic when "they" started torture in the war on terror.

Seriously though, I do agree with your general sentiment, and so did Peter Van Buren. After his year in Iraq with the State Department he eventually wrote his most informative book, "We Meant Well."

 

[Hawkeye10]

Of course "we" did not want to be that way, "we" being a very fluid description never defined, or defined on a subjective basis.

But "we" with our Judeo Christian Heritage were quite enthusiastic when "they" started torture in the war on terror.

Seriously though, I do agree with your general sentiment, and so did Peter Van Buren. After his year in Iraq with the State Department he eventually wrote his most informative book, "We Meant Well."

I have not read it....please tell me that the book starts "Well folks, we learned anew that the road to Hell is paved in good intentions held by substandard men and women".

 

[Thoreau72]

I have not read it....please tell me that the book starts "Well folks, we learned anew that the road to Hell is paved in good intentions held by substandard men and women".

LOL, no it doesn't start that way, but it's subtitle is "How I helped lose the battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people." For me it was easy to insert "Vietnamese" in place of Iraqi, and it was like deja vu all over again. :mrgreen:

For the record, I do not believe that Americans are the only example of invaders who delude themselves into thinking they can win the hearts and minds of those people they have invaded.

 

[Hawkeye10]

LOL, no it doesn't start that way, but it's subtitle is "How I helped lose the battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people." For me it was easy to insert "Vietnamese" in place of Iraqi, and it was like deja vu all over again. :mrgreen:

For the record, I do not believe that Americans are the only example of invaders who delude themselves into thinking they can win the hearts and minds of those people they have invaded.

Keeping in mind that the generals after Nam were sure that they had inoculated America for the forseeable from ever doing that brand of idiocy again, but that it had so worn off by 2003 that the American Brain Trust did the mistake all over again.

Given that most of those 1970's guys were still still alive at the time this is inexcusable.

 

[Fishking]

Fish does consider the Fat Leonard investigation 'insignificant' in that there is 'not a significant enough (%) number of Admirals involved'. Read his posts.

WTF are you talking about and what are you reading? I said it was "significant". How about you go back and read my posts, because you obviously don't get it.

 

[Fishking]

I didn't know we even HAD 60 Admirals.... :shock:

Is that pretty much ALL the Admirals??

It's just over 37% of them so I'm guessing a bunch of promotion slots are going to be opening up in the near future.

 

[Thoreau72]

Keeping in mind that the generals after Nam were sure that they had inoculated America for the forseeable from ever doing that brand of idiocy again, but that it had so worn off by 2003 that the American Brain Trust did the mistake all over again.

Given that most of those 1970's guys were still still alive at the time this is inexcusable.

Goes to show how right Ike was in warning of the MIC. The Deep State is who runs things.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Goes to show how right Ike was in warning of the MIC. The Deep State is who runs things.

I am pretty convinced that this started in the 50's, and that this drove the great decline in the quality of our elected officials. And look at the trash we have there now in Congress, they cant even manage the day to day basics anymore. I was reading a few months back a theory that puts the start of the decline of Congress at 1958.

 

[Hatuey]

Careful your TDS is showing. Wouldn’t want to look like a political hack now would you. Funny how you only mention Trump despite the fact that most of this took place under and was discovered under Obama.

Reality:

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/16/timeline-fat-leonard-case

A Conspiracy Begins
February 2006
The government’s indictments allege that the group of officers who came to call themselves, among other nicknames, “the cool kids” and “the wolf pack,” began conspiring with Francis “on the high seas” around February 2006. Among the first conspirators were Capt. David Newland, who was chief of staff of the USS Blue Ridge in 2006; Col. Enrico Deguzman, Fleet Marine Officer for U.S. 7th Fleet in 2006, Capt. Donald Hornbeck, chief of staff for operations aboard the USS Kitty Hawk; Capt. James Dolan, assistant chief of staff for logistics for 7th Fleet; Capt. Bruce Loveless, assistant chief of staff for intelligence for 7th Fleet; Capt. David Lausman, executive officer aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln; and Chief Warrant Officer Robert Gorsuch, 7th Fleet flag administration officer.

So now we know this started years before Obama was even in the WH. It was discovered in 2012 and subsequently prosecuted. Careful. Your Obama derangement syndrome is showing.

 

[braindrain]

Reality:

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/16/timeline-fat-leonard-case



So now we know this started years before Obama was even in the WH. It was discovered in 2012 and subsequently prosecuted. Careful. Your Obama derangement syndrome is showing.

Yes really

The fact you think I in any way blaming obama just shows how blinded by your political bias you are.
I was calling a poster out because they were attacking Trump for something that had nothing to do with him. Unless you want to explain to me how something that happened under the Bush and Obama presidencies is somehow Trumps fault.

If you weren’t such a political hack that would be obvious to you.

 

[Hatuey]

Yes really

The fact you think I in any way blaming obama just shows how blinded by your political bias you are.

Well, the problem with your post is that any way you dice it, the problem began under a Republican - but you want to talk about a Democrat. And it's somebody else who has a derangement syndrome of some sort? The funniest part is that he didn't even blame Trump for anything. Just said that it's only Trump's people who get to go to parties like this. It was you that started talking about when this went on and got it so amazingly wrong.