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Defining Islamophobia

zyzygy said:
This simplistic conclusion ignores that many groups in many countries are experiencing terror right now. It ignores the international arms trade from powerful western nations that wholly disregards human rights and has caused the death of more than 60,000 children in Yemen. And it ignores the fact that as Somalians suffer a massive famine Western media virtually ignores them – as it has ignored the Syrian crisis for the last several years.

Yet with attacks in Egypt, London and Syria, critics default to blaming the Quran, citing its allegedly “violent” verses. We cannot resolve the Syrian, Yemeni and Somalia atrocities until we adhere to justice. Blaming the Quran for terrorism is not only demonstrably false, it wastes precious resources that could be spent on stopping war and famine.
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There is no "allegedly" about it. Surah 8 was "received" after the Battle of Badr. It serves to rally the troops for further fighting. It's worth noting that the only reason there was a Battle of Badr in the first place is that Mohamed and his highway men were attacking and ransacking Meccan caravans, and the Meccans sent an army to protect them. Here are a few "cherry picked" quotes from it:

Shakir's translation of 8:12 - When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

8:15 (Moshin Khan) - O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battle-field, never turn your backs to them.

8:39 (Moshin Khan) - And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do. <<< Read this as many times as it takes to really sink in.

8:65 (Moshin Khan) - O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast persons amongst you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are people who do not understand. <<<< Now read this as many times as it takes to really sink in. Worthy of note is that the word translated as "fight" is "qatl", which means "kill". Also worth noting is that the Battle of Badr is done, and this is a command for future battles.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

And that was just Surah 8. "God" doubles down again and again, especially in 9 and 61.

Now, a word about the stupidest "argument" that the don't-blame-Islam club tries to slip in - "cherry picking". It's only cherry picking if quoted verses are opposed to the norm. The hatred that God spews toward infidels is absolutely the norm. Anyone with an ounce of credibility who wants to argue to the contrary only needs to vistit the above web site, go to Surah 2, and start reading. The hatred starts in verse 6.

I will eviscerate the rest of your post later.
 
Islamophobia is simply a term invented to try to criminalize any speech critical of Islam or of the Islamic community.
 
zyzygy said:
I'll bet you vote Vlaams Belang.
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Soooooooo, regarding your statement, "critics default to blaming the Quran, citing its allegedly “violent” verses". Did I, or did I not, show that exhortations to violence do exist? (before you answer, unless of course you're going to continue to pretend I haven't addressed the issue, keep in mind that I've just begun; that there is much more to come.)
 
stevecanuck said:
With the word Islamophobia being thrown about like Frisbees in a dog park, isn't it time we actually defined it? Iqra Khalid's M-103 introduced and then condemned Islamophobia in Canada's House of Commons minus any explanation of what it is. Such vagueness leaves the door to abuse wide open. Canadians would be vulnerable to capricious and politically-motivated prosecution/persecution should parliament take M-103 to the next level and pass an imprecisely worded law criminalizing Islamophobia.

Our right to responsibly speak freely and debate uncomfortable subjects is at stake. In defining Islamophobia we have to recognize that legitimate criticism of some tenets of Islam, or any other religion, is neither hate speech, phobic, nor incitement to commit violence. This is Free Speech 101.
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World Communists do not like free speech and ideas which deviate from the prescribed group think narrative. Canada is on the very wrong track to be promoting such communist suppression of free speech for whatever stupid reason they think is justified.
 
zyzygy said:
... critics default to blaming the Quran, citing its allegedly “violent” verses.
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Here's some more of that alleged violence for you:

9:5 - Yusuf Ali: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

9:14- Yusuf Ali: Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers. (Again qatl (kill) is the verb used for fight).

9:29 - Yusuf Ali: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Yup, you guessed it - qatl again).

That's all I have time for now. I will continue rubbing your nose in the pure and simple truth another day.
 
LeoVlaming said:
Islamophobia is simply a term invented to try to criminalize any speech critical of Islam or of the Islamic community.
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Incorrect is so many ways.

Islamophobia is not criminalized in the US.

Nor is it defined as "any speech critical Islam or of the Islamic community".

It is the unreasonable fear of Islam.
 
Fledermaus said:
Incorrect is so many ways.

Islamophobia is not criminalized in the US.

Nor is it defined as "any speech critical Islam or of the Islamic community".

It is the unreasonable fear of Islam.
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Is it unreasonable to fear Islam?
 
Fledermaus said:
To the levels demonstrated by many on this forum, yes.
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So it's reasonable to fear Islam to a certain extent. Can you define that? Also, can you give specific examples of people exceeding that level?
 
stevecanuck said:
So it's reasonable to fear Islam to a certain extent. Can you define that? Also, can you give specific examples of people exceeding that level?
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Why?

You can't figure it out?

If Islam is truly all about the Jihad then why is it only a fraction of a percentage that commit ac s of violence against the infidels?

Rational fear. Someone known to be Muslim shows up in a public place in a bulky jacket when it is far too warm for such clothing.

People that far exceed that level.

You.

The not missed Coldjoint.

Some but not all white supremacists.

Anyone painting with a mile wide broad brush.

Anyone that ignores history IRT peaceful Islam.
 
stevecanuck said:
So it's reasonable to fear Islam to a certain extent. Can you define that? Also, can you give specific examples of people exceeding that level?
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We may as well accept the Boston Bombers among us as here to stay, especially since democrats will not allow border barriers to be built to try to stop the illegal flow of bad operators into the US.
 
Fledermaus said:
To the levels demonstrated by many on this forum, yes.
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Your post is ill-timed. You would have done better to have waited until Sri Lankan blood had stopped flowing from this latest Islamic terrorist atrocity. The Sri Lankan police chief issued a warning on 11 April that local representatives of the 'Religion of Peace' were planning to bomb churches.
 
When the thunder of gunfire broke through the revelry of a country music dance hall packed with young people kicking back on "college night," Thousand Oaks, California, added its name to a dark roster: The site of the 307th mass shooting in the U.S. this year.

And an even grimmer statistic was marked: The 307th mass shooting took place on the 311th day of the year – an average of a deadly incident almost every day so far this year.

The Wednesday night massacre at the Borderline Bar and Grill, which left 13 people dead, including the gunman, became the nation's latest mass shooting, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organization that provides online public access to information about gun-related violence.

In all, 328 people died in those incidents, and 1,251 were injured, according to the data. The numbers include incidents in which four or more people were shot or killed, not including the shooters, according to the archive.

Thousand Oaks shooting is the 307th mass shooting in 2018

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2019: Data From Mother Jones’ Investigation – Mother Jones
 
Sweden said:
Your post is ill-timed. You would have done better to have waited until Sri Lankan blood had stopped flowing from this latest Islamic terrorist atrocity. The Sri Lankan police chief issued a warning on 11 April that local representatives of the 'Religion of Peace' were planning to bomb churches.
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If you read my posts IRT Muslim terrorism you will find I am steadfast in my desire to stomp out the cockroaches who commit such acts of terrorism.

That does not change the fact that I do not paint the entire religion of Islam with the same brush Steve and others employ.
 
Fledermaus said:
If you read my posts IRT Muslim terrorism you will find I am steadfast in my desire to stomp out the cockroaches who commit such acts of terrorism.

That does not change the fact that I do not paint the entire religion of Islam with the same brush Steve and others employ.
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For my part I paint the entire absolutist philosophy, world view, legal system and political programme called Islam, meaning 'submission', rather differently than you. Words like primitive intolerant repressive unjust cruel and uncivilised jostle for space when I'm painting my placard.
 
Sweden said:
For my part I paint the entire absolutist philosophy, world view, legal system and political programme called Islam, meaning 'submission', rather differently than you. Words like primitive intolerant repressive unjust cruel and uncivilised jostle for space when I'm painting my placard.
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In reference to mainstream Christianity and Islam...

As you are, I once was.
As I am, you will be.

Got Inquisition?
 
Fledermaus said:
In reference to mainstream Christianity and Islam...

As you are, I once was.
As I am, you will be.

Got Inquisition?
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Christianity has been tamed, long since, and is slowly, albeit too slowly, dying. Islam has not and is not. Where it rules so does injustice and barbarism.
 
zyzygy said:
When the thunder of gunfire broke through the revelry of a country music dance hall packed with young people kicking back on "college night," Thousand Oaks, California, added its name to a dark roster: The site of the 307th mass shooting in the U.S. this year.

And an even grimmer statistic was marked: The 307th mass shooting took place on the 311th day of the year – an average of a deadly incident almost every day so far this year.

The Wednesday night massacre at the Borderline Bar and Grill, which left 13 people dead, including the gunman, became the nation's latest mass shooting, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organization that provides online public access to information about gun-related violence.

In all, 328 people died in those incidents, and 1,251 were injured, according to the data. The numbers include incidents in which four or more people were shot or killed, not including the shooters, according to the archive.

Thousand Oaks shooting is the 307th mass shooting in 2018

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2019: Data From Mother Jones’ Investigation – Mother Jones
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You didn't just move the goal posts, you went to a different stadium where they're playing a different game.

In post 105 you said: critics default to blaming the Quran, citing its allegedly “violent” verses..

I have since shown you many verses in which God and Mohamed explicitly urge Muslims to kill infidels, and here you are shouting, "SQUIRREL!!"

Again I ask, did I or did I not clearly demonstrate that there is no "allegedly" about it, and that the word violent does not belong in quotes? The exhortations to kill are explicit. Yes or no?

You recently (and rightly) challenged someone else to answer a direct question for once, and now I'm extending that challenge to you.
 
Fledermaus said:
Do you think Saudi Arabia is the whole of Islam?
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Another deflection. Pakistan has sentenced people to die for blasphemy against Islam. Brunei recently announced stoning for gays. Do you feel the love and tolerance of Islam yet?
 
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