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When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or else"

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

CLAX1911 said:
They don't think it would be that common of An Occurrence.

I think this comes down to people not accepting transgender people as the sex they identify with. Good bad or indifferent I believe these people will always exist and because they exist we have to accept that.
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I'm not sure it is an acceptance issue or not. I have no issue with transgender people; however, I would be super uncomfortable if I were the prisoner in this situation. It is in my genetic make-up to be attracted to women, as such, I would have a hard time ignoring the fact that this officer was presenting as a woman.

Note: I wasn't trying to make a pun here, but it happened and I'm leaving it.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Lursa said:
How would he know if a male searching him was gay or not? There's no way of ensuring that doesnt happen.
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I believe I have already conceded to this point.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

roguenuke said:
It is as much a fact as anyone else's perception.
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that's incorrect. Fact is fact independent of perception. Case and point some people perceive the Earth to be a flat disk that is factually incorrect regardless of perception. Perception is not factual.

No one has a right to know what that person has under their clothes, especially since their clothes are not coming off during the given situation.
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we are not talking about what a person has under their clothes.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

CLAX1911 said:
that's incorrect. Fact is fact independent of perception. Case and point some people perceive the Earth to be a flat disk that is factually incorrect regardless of perception. Perception is not factual.

we are not talking about what a person has under their clothes.
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Yes we are, since that is what would mainly make a person the biological sex that you are saying is a fact.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

roguenuke said:
There is plenty of evidence that it is a form of being intersexed, tied to certain chromosomes/DNA.
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I find that doubtful. Intersexed is a biological anomaly transgenderism is not.

In fact, we are finding that a lot of people do have both male and female DNA within their body. So which determines sex, DNA or genitalia?
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I would say Anatomy not only genitalia but all of anatomy over DNA.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Chaddelamancha said:
I believe the case involving the muslim being strip searched by a woman does exactly that. Her life choice impacted him and his faith. He shouldn't have been subjected to a strip search by her.
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That is what struct me about the 'story'. Females correctional officers do not usually strip search male inmates.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Chaddelamancha said:
I'm not sure it is an acceptance issue or not. I have no issue with transgender people; however, I would be super uncomfortable if I were the prisoner in this situation.
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me personally I have no issue with transgender people I would be just as uncomfortable stripping in front of a transgender guard as I would any other type of situation it's uncomfortable so the person watching in their identity doesn't really play into it.

The Muslim man said it was against his religion to be naked in front of a female this makes it no longer about transgenderism because a transman is a female. I think it's about respect because the transman should have excused himself. I don't think that that is an unacceptable accommodation to make.

It is in my genetic make-up to be attracted to women, as such, I would have a hard time ignoring the fact that this officer was presenting as a woman.

Note: I wasn't trying to make a pun here, but it happened and I'm leaving it.
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fair enough I think I would be uncomfortable taking off my clothes in front of any officer.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

CLAX1911 said:
I find that doubtful. Intersexed is a biological anomaly transgenderism is not.


I would say Anatomy not only genitalia but all of anatomy over DNA.
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I provided links already.

And anatomy can be changed, just as DNA can be wrong. Additionally, there are always androgynous people who could easily fit the anatomy of either sex.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

roguenuke said:
Yes we are, since that is what would mainly make a person the biological sex that you are saying is a fact.
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No we are not there are secondary sexual characteristics that make a person identifiable as female or male without knowing what's under the clothes.

And biological fact is it's biological fact because I say so it is because it's established I'm merely saying it's because it's established and you seem to be attempting to deny it. I have zero tolerance for science deniers.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

1750Texan said:
That is what struct me about the 'story'. Females correctional officers do not usually strip search male inmates.
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According to her, she is not female; he is male.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

roguenuke said:
I provided links already.
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I'm not searching for them and I'm really not going to them either so I still doubt your claim and you have still not produced any evidence for it as far as I'm concerned.

So I can dismiss your claim without evidence because it was made without evidence.

And anatomy can be changed, just as DNA can be wrong. Additionally, there are always androgynous people who could easily fit the anatomy of either sex.
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It doesn't matter that Anatomy can be changed that is still what we base sex on. And I still don't care that there are rare exceptions so mentioning them does nothing so mentioning them does not make a point.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Chaddelamancha said:
I believe I have already conceded to this point.
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Sorry, missed it. Do you know the post number, approx?
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Lursa said:
Sorry, missed it. Do you know the post number, approx?
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Post #37.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

ecofarm said:
It's safe to assume transgenders aren't faking. Presuming they are is bigoted.
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I see a Right Wing dilemma developing. Who to side with; the Muslim or the Transsexual? :lol:
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Chaddelamancha said:
Post #37.
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Thanks. And that's something that often gets glossed over.

Men in male locker rooms have had to deal with...overtly or not...gay men in with them, always. Same for women.

It wasnt an issue unless there were overt actions by the gay person.

If you are dealing with a trans person, you really dont know what their orientation is. So we as individuals can assume and be concerned...or not.

I admit it's easier said than done. But IMO, should be a goal for our society.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Forcing a Muslim to abandon and violate his religion on behalf of the slogans of the SJWs that a male with male genitals and male dna is the sex of a woman merely by declaring it.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

It is the same absurd circle. Under the same SJW trans-rights demand, a male jailer in a female juvenile detention center could order little girls to strip in front of him merely for him saying "I identify myself to you as a woman."
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

ecofarm said:
It's safe to assume transgenders aren't faking. Presuming they are is bigoted.
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Do you assume everyone is always telling the truth about themselves?
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Lursa said:
Thanks. And that's something that often gets glossed over.

Men in male locker rooms have had to deal with...overtly or not...gay men in with them, always. Same for women.

It wasnt an issue unless there were overt actions by the gay person.

If you are dealing with a trans person, you really dont know what their orientation is. So we as individuals can assume and be concerned...or not.

I admit it's easier said than done. But IMO, should be a goal for our society.
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I agree. But that goal is more easily accomplished if people are not forced to accept things, rather allowed time to adjust.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Chaddelamancha said:
I agree. But that goal is more easily accomplished if people are not forced to accept things, rather allowed time to adjust.
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Meh, prisoners give up many rights after due process and conviction.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

joko104 said:
Do you assume everyone is always telling the truth about themselves?
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Depends on the claim. In general, a transgender is so.
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

joko104 said:
Forcing a Muslim to abandon and violate his religion on behalf of the slogans of the SJWs that a male with male genitals and male dna is the sex of a woman merely by declaring it.
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I wonder if Jeff Sessions will step to the plate to defend this man's religious rights. :confused:
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

CLAX1911 said:
me personally I have no issue with transgender people I would be just as uncomfortable stripping in front of a transgender guard as I would any other type of situation it's uncomfortable so the person watching in their identity doesn't really play into it.

The Muslim man said it was against his religion to be naked in front of a female this makes it no longer about transgenderism because a transman is a female. I think it's about respect because the transman should have excused himself. I don't think that that is an unacceptable accommodation to make.
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I agree that the transman should have excused himself in this case, and that this is not an unreasonable accommodation to make. In a similar vein, a Jewish prisoner can ask to not be fed pork. This is also not an unreasonable accommodation. In the unlikely event that either request became unreasonable, (the transman is the only guard available and the Muslim prisoner can't be moved until he is searched, or the only food available to the prison for the foreseeable future is pork,) then I don't think it is unreasonable to violate the prisoner's religious objections for their own safety and the safety of the guards and other prisoners. This prevents the concept of "religious objections" from being abused. This way the Muslim prisoner can't demand proof of a guard's biological sex before he consents to be searched, since this would be an unreasonable accommodation.

Religion specific accommodations should be made whenever reasonable, but should never be made a blanket guarantee as an inalienable right. The freedom to believe is not the same thing as the freedom to practice, especially if such practice puts anyone at any kind of risk or violates another's rights.
 
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Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

lwf said:
I agree that the transman should have excused himself in this case, and that this is not an unreasonable accommodation to make. In a similar vein, a Jewish prisoner can ask to not be fed pork. This is also not an unreasonable accommodation. In the unlikely event that either request became unreasonable, (the transman is the only guard available and the Muslim prisoner can't be moved until he is searched, or the only food available to the prison for the foreseeable future is pork,) then I don't think it is unreasonable to violate the prisoner's religious objections for their own safety and the safety of the guards and other prisoners. This prevents the concept of "religious objections" from being abused. This way the Muslim prisoner can't demand proof of a guard's biological sex before he consents to be searched, since this would be an unreasonable accommodation.

Religion specific accommodations should be made whenever reasonable, but should never be made a blanket guarantee as an inalienable right. The freedom to believe is not the same thing as the freedom to practice, especially if such practice puts anyone at any kind of risk or violates another's rights.
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I agree
 
Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

lwf said:
I agree that the transman should have excused himself in this case, and that this is not an unreasonable accommodation to make. In a similar vein, a Jewish prisoner can ask to not be fed pork. This is also not an unreasonable accommodation. In the unlikely event that either request became unreasonable, (the transman is the only guard available and the Muslim prisoner can't be moved until he is searched, or the only food available to the prison for the foreseeable future is pork,) then I don't think it is unreasonable to violate the prisoner's religious objections for their own safety and the safety of the guards and other prisoners. This prevents the concept of "religious objections" from being abused. This way the Muslim prisoner can't demand proof of a guard's biological sex before he consents to be searched, since this would be an unreasonable accommodation.

Religion specific accommodations should be made whenever reasonable, but should never be made a blanket guarantee as an inalienable right. The freedom to believe is not the same thing as the freedom to practice, especially if such practice puts anyone at any kind of risk or violates another's rights.
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This is a reasonable argument.
 
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