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Evidence for the Bible / God[W:14]

phattonez said:
Multiple gods is inconsistent with the idea of an uncaused cause.
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Multiple gods are beyond your understanding then. In other words you cannot disprove it.
 
Logicman said:
Evidence for the Bible / God

Critics claim there is no evidence for God or the Bible / New Testament. Many scholars have been refuting that idea for centuries, noting archaeological evidence, fulfilled Messianic prophecies, and so on.

This thread is for debate on those issues.
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The reason I strongly suspect there's a supreme being has to do with the perception of conscious awareness and how the ordered nature of the laws of reality coincide with intellect. Too much coincidence for mere philosophical insight.
 
ethanUNC said:
If words from a book are evidence that God exists, are words from the Harry Potter series evidence that Hogwarts exists?
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If I say" "I'm going to tell you a fairy tale" would you be thinking I'm giving you reality?

If you don't want to believe the story, it's really up to you. It's up to each and every one of us to make a determination. The book talks about the importance and the reality of this very decision.
The book says many will reject the truth of it. Jesus knew how difficult the personal decision would be for many.
Look into it. Make your decision. Then move on to either serve God or server yourself. It's that simple.
 
ethanUNC said:
If words from a book are evidence that God exists, are words from the Harry Potter series evidence that Hogwarts exists?
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You don't need a book to tell you God exists.

The evidence is right in your face. All you have to do is look around you. :doh
 
Cable said:
If I say" "I'm going to tell you a fairy tale" would you be thinking I'm giving you reality?

If you don't want to believe the story, it's really up to you. It's up to each and every one of us to make a determination. The book talks about the importance and the reality of this very decision.
The book says many will reject the truth of it. Jesus knew how difficult the personal decision would be for many.
Look into it. Make your decision. Then move on to either serve God or server yourself. It's that simple.
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You're wondering why I "dont believe the story."

Can you give me a reason to believe it over any of the other hundreds of thousands of fiction novels that have been produced?
 
tosca1 said:
You don't need a book to tell you God exists.

The evidence is right in your face. All you have to do is look around you. :doh
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The evidence in the universe strongly contradicts the idea of a Christian god.

"The stage is too large for the drama" - Feynman.

Our entire world is less than a speck of dust in less than a millisecond of time. And Christianity tells us we're special; what a joke.
 
Slyhunter said:
How can multiple beings be omnipotent?
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Their powers could be shared. There doesn't HAVE to be only ONE all-powerful. Again, plain and simple you cannot prove the multiple God theory wrong. Hint, that is why the Christian faith is.....well.....faith and not fact.
 
Slyhunter said:
What caused God?
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He gets a special exemption. which I have never quite figured out. Occam's Razor compels me to discard this special pleading. "I do not know" works just fine for me as to what caused time to begin in the first place. All of the evidence points to the poorly named Big bang. What caused the big bang? again "I do not know" but if time did not exist here prior to it then causation is a moot point. I see no compelling reason to complicate the matter by adding a superfluous god entity into the mix
 
ethanUNC said:
You're wondering why I "dont believe the story."
Can you give me a reason to believe it over any of the other hundreds of thousands of fiction novels that have been produced?
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Firstly, it wasn't written as a fiction piece. It is the historical account of Christ written by several authors for the most part, but also of God's interaction with the Jews as well.
But as far as offering a reason, there are many. And it usually touches everyone a bit differently. Read the thing and see how it touches you.

I would recommend just reading it as something new that you've never heard of before. Don't read it with an axe to grind, and don't read it as though to feel like you must believe it.
It is a paradigm shift of serious proportions for most people. It was for me, and a difficult one to make.

I think Paul's testimony before Agrippa was a really good explanation, if one can hear it. That link will take you there.


There seems to be a lot of anger at Christians in the world. Some of it is because the world does not like to hear about Christ. It is convicting.
Sometimes though, men take Christs message and bend it to control or gain power here on earth. This was not his message, and comes from somewhere else.
If this is the understanding of Christ that you have, then I urge you, give it a listen from Christ's perspective, not that of bad men.
You will hear something worthwhile in it.
 
marduc said:
He gets a special exemption. which I have never quite figured out. Occam's Razor compels me to discard this special pleading. "I do not know" works just fine for me as to what caused time to begin in the first place. All of the evidence points to the poorly named Big bang. What caused the big bang? again "I do not know" but if time did not exist here prior to it then causation is a moot point. I see no compelling reason to complicate the matter by adding a superfluous god entity into the mix
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According to Doctor who a tardis blew up at the end of time creating the beginning of time?
 
TheNextEra said:
It's like anything else, it's based off very few accountings and there is no ability to fact check.

Let me ask you, if I came up to you and I told you and everyone else I saw someone do the same things that Jesus was recorded to do AND he died and was ressurrected......I would be commited or at the very least called a liar.

Another point to consider is have someone write about an event right now and what people were doing and saying and in 40 years write about the same event without looking at what you wrote. They will be vastly different. This is how the bible was formed.
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The so called fulfilled prophecies tend to be gauge and people have ascribed events to them. It's more self fulfilled prophecy than anything else. If something is vauge enough, given enough time there will be an even that could be interpreted as the gauge statement. If a prophecy doesn't have exact names, dates, and details it doesn't mean much.
 
Ikari said:
The so called fulfilled prophecies tend to be gauge and people have ascribed events to them. It's more self fulfilled prophecy than anything else. If something is vauge enough, given enough time there will be an even that could be interpreted as the gauge statement. If a prophecy doesn't have exact names, dates, and details it doesn't mean much.
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Yeah this is kinda what I have thought about religious texts when people say a prophecy has been fulfilled.
 
Ikari said:
The so called fulfilled prophecies tend to be gauge and people have ascribed events to them. It's more self fulfilled prophecy than anything else. If something is vauge enough, given enough time there will be an even that could be interpreted as the gauge statement. If a prophecy doesn't have exact names, dates, and details it doesn't mean much.
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Well, let's look at some of the Messianic prophecies and see if you're right. Are these vague, or specific?

Fulfilled Messianic Prophecies

Looks to me like they're more specific than vague.

And this one is uncanny:

Documenting A Miracle « The Righter Report

And then there's the time frame when the Messiah was to appear in history:

Until Shiloh Comes « The Righter Report

THE 70 WEEKS OF DANIEL

Jesus came WHEN he was supposed to come, WHERE he was supposed to come, and did the things he was supposed to do.

So the "vague" theory doesn't hold water in this case. In fact, it's not even close.

Cheers...
 
ethanUNC said:
The evidence in the universe strongly contradicts the idea of a Christian god.

"The stage is too large for the drama" - Feynman.
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Who the heck is Feynman? A scientist. Here's his entire quote, which is simply his personal opinion btw....so let's not get too excited about it.

It doesn't seem to me that this fantastically marvelous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions, and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil — which is the view that religion has. The stage is too big for the drama."
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- Statement (1959) by Richard Feynman as quoted by James Gleick in Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman (1992)


"The stage is too big for the drama." He got that part right.
Except he's looking at a very limited perspective that all he can think about is God watching humans in their struggle. Perhaps he should be more open to other questions such as to the purpose of it all, to begin with.
Or why of all the vastness of this wonderfully complicated universe - why is it that so far, nothing comes close in comparison to earth and its inhabitants? Why does the beginning of life on earth remains a mystery?

So many questions and all he can think about is his pathetic little speech that is anti-God and anti-religion.
When one puts atheism to such prominence that it clouds one's perspective - truly indeed, atheism is just another religion. :lol:



Our entire world is less than a speck of dust in less than a millisecond of time. And Christianity tells us we're special; what a joke.
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Where's the joke?

Have science proven so far that we're not special?

Atheist scientists have resorted to UFOs and beings from outer space .....if true, where are they now?
All we hear about are speculations that some planet(s) like Mars may've supported life. Well?

That's the biggest joke, isn't it? Perhaps we should give nobel prizes to comic book writers instead!
:mrgreen:
 
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Logicman said:
Well, let's look at some of the Messianic prophecies and see if you're right. Are these vague, or specific?

Fulfilled Messianic Prophecies

Looks to me like they're more specific than vague.

And this one is uncanny:

Documenting A Miracle « The Righter Report

And then there's the time frame when the Messiah was to appear in history:

Until Shiloh Comes « The Righter Report

THE 70 WEEKS OF DANIEL

Jesus came WHEN he was supposed to come, WHERE he was supposed to come, and did the things he was supposed to do.

So the "vague" theory doesn't hold water in this case. In fact, it's not even close.

Cheers...
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No exact dates, no exact names, no specific details. That's vague. Like Nostradamus.
 
Ikari said:
No exact dates, no exact names, no specific details. That's vague. Like Nostradamus.
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Vague? In your dreams.

You didn't read the link / article on Daniel's 70 Weeks, did you?
 
Logicman said:
Vague? In your dreams.

You didn't read the link / article on Daniel's 70 Weeks, did you?
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Specific dates, names, and details? No? Then it's vague. Perchance it's time to learn the definition of vague.
 
The problem with all the prophecy stuff is that gospel writers were writing with the prophesies in mind and could have fudged some accounts to fit the prophecies. The entire birth narrative seems to fit into that category.
 
Morton said:
The problem with all the prophecy stuff is that gospel writers were writing with the prophesies in mind and could have fudged some accounts to fit the prophecies. The entire birth narrative seems to fit into that category.
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Exactly. So we sit here with the eyes of hindsight and say X was completely predicted by Y, but it's not true. Y has been left for interpretation and we just wait till there is an X to fulfill whatever interpretation we wish. Y was never precisely defined, instead it is vague enough such that with time any number of events can be ascribed to it.
 
Morton said:
The problem with all the prophecy stuff is that gospel writers were writing with the prophesies in mind and could have fudged some accounts to fit the prophecies. The entire birth narrative seems to fit into that category.
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Skeptics love their theories. Got anything to support it?
 
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