• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

You can’t be a good Christian and a good Democrat

Superfly said:
Well honestly, I don't care for people who toe the party line. I prefer people who think for themselves. Salvation is a personal thing between you and God. Not you and God and your church, or you and God and the entire, say, Episcopalian branch, or you and God and the entire Republican party. It's just you and God, and what the two of you make of it. Work it out with Him, and don't rely entirely on what people tell you. Man is fallible. God is not.
Click to expand...

With which god do Hindus work it out?
 
SmartCat said:
Republicans are constantly judging other people. They judge them as lazy, as immoral, as un American, etc.
Click to expand...

And you judge Republicans, you question their Christianity. There is at least one poster in this thread with a log in his eye talking about others having logs in their eyes, and many more bearing false witness about what Republicans allegedly do. And they think they are fit to judge?
 
it's just me said:
And you judge Republicans, you question their Christianity. There is at least one poster in this thread with a log in his eye talking about others having logs in their eyes, and many more bearing false witness about what Republicans allegedly do. And they think they are fit to judge?
Click to expand...

A Republican may not, himself, walk up to a veteran, or a low income family, or an elderly homebound person, and say, "I'm taking your food, benefits and health care." However, they vote in the people who do. It's the same thing. As a constituent, you and the entire constituency are represented by 2 senators, and 'x' Congress persons. If you elect a Republican senator who campaigns on the platform of, "I'm going to repeal Obamacare!" then you own your part in removing health care from low income families who may not have had health care otherwise. That's how electing someone to represent you works. If you do not agree with removing health care from low income families who may not have had health care otherwise, then do not vote for the candidate who says that is what he will do. If you vote for that candidate, you own what he supports.

Same goes for Democrats. If you are a Democrat who is against abortion, for instance, and you vote in a candidate who says that they will remove all bans from abortion up until birth, then you own that. You voted for them. You may not like it, but you knew before they were elected what they stood for and you voted them in anyway.

I understand that this will not be a popular way to look at voting and representation, but it's how I feel. While you may not support everything your candidate does, if you do your part to elect them, you own what they do. They are there to represent you. Those who did not vote for that candidate in his state, or district, are just collateral damage.
 
Superfly said:
A Republican may not, himself, walk up to a veteran, or a low income family, or an elderly homebound person, and say, "I'm taking your food, benefits and health care." However, they vote in the people who do. It's the same thing. As a constituent, you and the entire constituency are represented by 2 senators, and 'x' Congress persons. If you elect a Republican senator who campaigns on the platform of, "I'm going to repeal Obamacare!" then you own your part in removing health care from low income families who may not have had health care otherwise. That's how electing someone to represent you works. If you do not agree with removing health care from low income families who may not have had health care otherwise, then do not vote for the candidate who says that is what he will do. If you vote for that candidate, you own what he supports.

Same goes for Democrats. If you are a Democrat who is against abortion, for instance, and you vote in a candidate who says that they will remove all bans from abortion up until birth, then you own that. You voted for them. You may not like it, but you knew before they were elected what they stood for and you voted them in anyway.

I understand that this will not be a popular way to look at voting and representation, but it's how I feel. While you may not support everything your candidate does, if you do your part to elect them, you own what they do. They are there to represent you. Those who did not vote for that candidate in his state, or district, are just collateral damage.
Click to expand...

Well, I AM a veteran, and I don't want to "take anything" from them. What I would like to see is a lot less fraud and waste in government, and anybody who wants to get rid of those things has my vote.

I was just reading that Social Security will only exist in its current form for another 12 years. After that, benefits will have to be cut, retirement ages will have to go up, senior citizens will be means tested.

And I'll tell you something else: about half of the people I know with Obamacare have ridiculous rates that make my insurance look cheap. Obamacare was supposed to be cheaper. It's not. It's not what they said it was going to be.
 
Superfly said:
*raises hand*

Very proud member of the Christian Left.

I am a very proud woman of faith, and a very proud woman on the left.
Click to expand...

Part of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah was illicit gay sex, which is condemned by God in both the Old and New Testaments. Do you support the behavior? Are you proud of gay marriage, which is nothing more than institutionalized sin?
 
Logicman said:
Part of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah was illicit gay sex, which is condemned by God in both the Old and New Testaments. Do you support the behavior? Are you proud of gay marriage, which is nothing more than institutionalized sin?
Click to expand...

You know what you're going to hear...
 
MrPeanut said:
Could you elaborate on what you are trying to say about the LGBT movement? I am assuming you are referring to the fact that Democrats basically don't accept people who are anti-gay. If I'm wrong just let me know. I don't think you need to be anti-gay to be a Christian.
Click to expand...

A good Christian sees the world, based on love. Love ignores our differences; love your enemy, and looks for commonalities to help maintain the ambiance of love.The Democrats like to promote identity politics, which causes the mind to think in terms of distinctions. These distinctions can separate us. Instead of saying we are all Americans, they prefer point out ethnic and racial diversity, forming dozens of smaller competing groups. It is a way to peel off votes from the collective herd. It may have political use, but it also has negative social consequences that divides us.

For example, say we were at a party with all types of people, from all walks of life, who don't know each other. The food is good, the music is smooth, the comedians are hilarious, and the party goers are all enjoying the moment. This party is a clean slate, where we can all be friendly with each other, no matter what secret each holds, behind the friendly smiles.

Say someone, who knows everyone, started to move around the party, pointing out differences we were not aware of. This will have the impact of dissociating the group. One may say, Joe was a funny guy, until I found out he voted for Trump. Or Laura was so sweet, until I found out this was her fourth marriage.

The party started with one large group of strangers all having a good time; ignorance of their differences was bliss. If we start to point out differences like sexual orientation, political view, religious convections, employee or employer, the unity of the party starts to break down. Knowledge of these differences can divide. This division can get worse if, after people divide, each teams starts to promote these differences even more. You can have a nice conversation with the CEO of a large company, until you learn he is the CEO. Then it might get awkward for you or him. It would have better, not to have said anything, so you don't feel the need to form to separate teams.

It useful to think in terms of large scale teams, like being an American or better yet being an Earthling. Beyond that don't ask or don't tell, so you do not risk creating opposition, due to distinctions that are not that important, except to those with self identity problems.

Try an experiment at home. Find a group that has a narrow common identity. Once you figure out the lay of the land, go along with group think. Next, make a distinction between you and them, and wear that distinction, loudly, like a badge of honor. See what happens! The Democrats not only divide with identity politics but teach each dissociated group to wear a uniform, so nobody on either side can forget the distinction. This gets in your face, so you cannot forget, and return to the original party of friendly strangers. The LGBT uniform is too loud to go to the party of friendly strangers.
 
Last edited:
it's just me said:
Well, I AM a veteran, and I don't want to "take anything" from them. What I would like to see is a lot less fraud and waste in government, and anybody who wants to get rid of those things has my vote.

I was just reading that Social Security will only exist in its current form for another 12 years. After that, benefits will have to be cut, retirement ages will have to go up, senior citizens will be means tested.

And I'll tell you something else: about half of the people I know with Obamacare have ridiculous rates that make my insurance look cheap. Obamacare was supposed to be cheaper. It's not. It's not what they said it was going to be.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your service. My husband is also a veteran. 25 years, 100 service connected disabled.

Onward, the thing about "not taking anything from them" - well, you have to take the bad with the good. You may not want to take anything away from low income families, but when you vote against waste and fraud in the government (your words, not mine), you vote for stopping CHIP, stopping Meals on Wheels, etc.

Social Security has been struggling for years, because thanks to modern medicine, people are living past their life expectancy.

Obamacare has problems. I was a big fan of Obama and loved the guy. I'd love more than just about anything to have him back in office. But Obamacare had issues. In some cases, it was too expensive. I also didn't like how they forced people to get insurance or get fined. It needed work, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Fix what was bad, keep what was good. Problem was, Trump has such a boner to get rid of anything with Obama's name on it that he doesn't care who loses what. And for those of you who voted for Trump? You own that.
 
Logicman said:
Part of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah was illicit gay sex, which is condemned by God in both the Old and New Testaments. Do you support the behavior? Are you proud of gay marriage, which is nothing more than institutionalized sin?
Click to expand...

Why are you cherry picking something out of the Bible that is so insignificant?

Homosexuality is only mentioned 3 times in the New Testament.

Lying? 50+ times.

Cheating? 25+ times.

Taking away from the poor? 50+ times.

Greed? 25+ times.

Sloth? 20+ times.

Hate? 80+ times.

But you seem to be stuck on homosexuality. Why is that?

Look - the Bible is subjective. Some things are more clear than others. I interpret the Bible the way that I feel it should be read, and hope that between that, and speaking with God, that I reach a happy medium. I don't care what people on a political message board think of me, or how I live my life. I worry about God, and how He sees me living my life. I try to do the best by Him that I can. I'm going to fail. I fail miserably every day. But I also know that if I fail, He is there to pick me up and dust me off.

The thing is, if you are busy enough to worry about your own salvation, you don't have time to be worrying about anybody else's.
 
Superfly said:
Thank you for your service. My husband is also a veteran. 25 years, 100 service connected disabled.

Onward, the thing about "not taking anything from them" - well, you have to take the bad with the good. You may not want to take anything away from low income families, but when you vote against waste and fraud in the government (your words, not mine), you vote for stopping CHIP, stopping Meals on Wheels, etc.

Social Security has been struggling for years, because thanks to modern medicine, people are living past their life expectancy.

Obamacare has problems. I was a big fan of Obama and loved the guy. I'd love more than just about anything to have him back in office. But Obamacare had issues. In some cases, it was too expensive. I also didn't like how they forced people to get insurance or get fined. It needed work, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Fix what was bad, keep what was good. Problem was, Trump has such a boner to get rid of anything with Obama's name on it that he doesn't care who loses what. And for those of you who voted for Trump? You own that.
Click to expand...

I have seen people selling food stamps for cash to buy drugs, liquor, even guns. THOSE are the people stealing from low income families, not me, and not Trump. If they have so many extra food stamps (or EBT credits) that they can sell them, they should be taken away and used for people who need it.

Obamacare was a disater before it even got started. The insurance mandate was a terrible idea, it made broke people even more broke. My step-daughter's insurance was so high and the out-of-pocket so expensive she might as well not have insurance.

And give your husband my thanks.
 
blackjack50 said:
I don’t like making statements like this, but sadly I believe this is true now. And before we get into it...I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MORAL VIEWS OR ETHICS AND I’M NOT SAYING DEMOCRATS CANNOT BE CHRISTIAN.

There. Now that’s that is out of the way. I think there has been a shift in the Democrat Party. And I think it has come even within the past 10 years or so. And it kinda disturbs me. It disturbs me because the people who should care...don’t. They don’t even see it. In fact...they are so wrapped up in their politics that they don’t even recognize that they are doing it. And the reverse is not true in this case. You will not find this sentiment in the republican camp. So what am I saying specifically?

I think that modern democrats have so aligned themselves that many democrats do not believe they can reconcile their faith with their politics. To the point that it seems many democrats feel that being a Christian automatically means you can’t be a real democrat. It even means you are a republican and hold certain views that they find repugnant. And what has this lead to? An openly hostile atmosphere FROM the left against those who have faith. And now. It isn’t “all democrats,” but I feel more open hostility and discomfort if I’m in an open discussion and I mention I’m a Christian. You would think the party of “tolerance” would understand how wrong this is, but it seems to have gone over their head. Completely. You even have some who openly insult people just for having faith.

I personally think this has to do with the LGBT movement of course. That is a given. And many democrats failed to see that this divide...was even in churches. It didn’t just stop at the door. Personally? I’m ok with gay marriage. And gays. I don’t care. Doesn’t bother me. But because there was opposition and the right took up the stance and then the democrats hijacked the movement (once the objective was completed) and now we have the left attacking their enemy the “Christian right.” And it isn’t just about gay marriage now. Does anyone else feel the left has become openly hostile towards Christians (and to some extent Jews or other religions)? If not openly hostile...would you be willing to see more intolerant? That the Democrat Party has decided their views cannot coexist with a “good Christian” or a “good Jew” or a “good Muslim?”
Click to expand...

There’s no such thing as the “Democrat Party.”
 
Superfly said:
Why are you cherry picking something out of the Bible that is so insignificant?
Click to expand...

I don't think God and the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would agree with you.

Superfly said:
Homosexuality is only mentioned 3 times in the New Testament.
Click to expand...

And never in a good light.

Superfly said:
But you seem to be stuck on homosexuality. Why is that?
Click to expand...

Why do you defend the practice when God says it's an abomination?

Superfly said:
Look - the Bible is subjective. Some things are more clear than others. I interpret the Bible the way that I feel it should be read, and hope that between that, and speaking with God, that I reach a happy medium. I don't care what people on a political message board think of me, or how I live my life. I worry about God, and how He sees me living my life. I try to do the best by Him that I can. I'm going to fail. I fail miserably every day. But I also know that if I fail, He is there to pick me up and dust me off.
Click to expand...

The Bible is perfectly clear that gay sex is a sin and an abomination. There's nothing subjective about that.

Superfly said:
The thing is, if you are busy enough to worry about your own salvation, you don't have time to be worrying about anybody else's.
Click to expand...

You still haven't answered the question: Why do you defend and support that which God describes as an abomination and a sin?

Also, unless they repent, they will perish (Luke 13:3).
 
Logicman said:
I don't think God and the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would agree with you.



And never in a good light.



Why do you defend the practice when God says it's an abomination?



The Bible is perfectly clear that gay sex is a sin and an abomination. There's nothing subjective about that.



You still haven't answered the question: Why do you defend and support that which God describes as an abomination and a sin?

Also, unless they repent, they will perish (Luke 13:3).
Click to expand...

God also describes eating shellfish as an abomination. Satan must run Red Lobster
 
it's just me said:
I have seen people selling food stamps for cash to buy drugs, liquor, even guns. THOSE are the people stealing from low income families, not me, and not Trump. If they have so many extra food stamps (or EBT credits) that they can sell them, they should be taken away and used for people who need it.
Click to expand...

You will always have people who cheat the system. That is nothing new, nor does it negate the fact that if you elect someone who campaigns on cutting social programs, and then social programs are cut, school lunch programs are slashed, medicare and medicaid go on the chopping block, Meals on Wheels are stopped, etc - you own that. You can't blame the losses of these programs on a handful of people who sell foodstamps for drugs. You have to take credit for the loss of those social programs, because you voted that candidate into office. It's on you, man. You and 63 million others voted to basically take food out of the mouths of children and the elderly. You don't get to walk away from doing something like that, and you don't get to place the blame on a bunch of crackheads. It's on you. Live with it.

Obamacare was a disater before it even got started. The insurance mandate was a terrible idea, it made broke people even more broke. My step-daughter's insurance was so high and the out-of-pocket so expensive she might as well not have insurance.
Click to expand...

I already agreed that Obamacare had problems, but you don't toss the whole thing and take tens of millions off of healthcare. You fix what's wrong and move on.

And give your husband my thanks.
Click to expand...

Will do.
 
vegas giants said:
God also describes eating shellfish as an abomination. Satan must run Red Lobster
Click to expand...

God never destroyed a seafood restaurant that I'm aware of, unless it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.

By the way, have you never read Mark 7:19? Jesus: "For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)"
 
Logicman said:
God never destroyed a seafood restaurant that I'm aware of, unless it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.

By the way, have you never read Mark 7:19? Jesus: "For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)"
Click to expand...

Have you read Leviticus ......are you kidding?
 
Logicman said:
God never destroyed a seafood restaurant that I'm aware of, unless it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.

By the way, have you never read Mark 7:19? Jesus: "For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)"
Click to expand...

There is no evidence that God has destroyed any place due to homosexuality either. Despite what some Christians believe, Sodom was not destroyed due to homosexuality. The story does not say or imply that. Some idiot later in the Bible says this, but being human, that person likely got it very long, since the actual expanded stories of Sodom state quite clearly what Sodom was destroyed over, inhospitality towards guests, not taking care of the poor/sick, and sexual immorality between heterosexuals (they were all about sleeping around). And this is all if the story is even true, and God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, rather than simply nature doing so, as is much more likely.
 
Superfly said:
Why are you cherry picking something out of the Bible that is so insignificant?

Homosexuality is only mentioned 3 times in the New Testament.

Lying? 50+ times.

Cheating? 25+ times.

Taking away from the poor? 50+ times.

Greed? 25+ times.

Sloth? 20+ times.

Hate? 80+ times.

But you seem to be stuck on homosexuality. Why is that?
Click to expand...

I always wonder about others' fixation with this one sin. Not that I think it's insignificant, but sin is sin. And each of us falls short every day.

Superfly said:
I don't care what people on a political message board think of me, or how I live my life. I worry about God, and how He sees me living my life. I try to do the best by Him that I can. I'm going to fail. I fail miserably every day. But I also know that if I fail, He is there to pick me up and dust me off.
Click to expand...

My fondest hope is that sincere effort is pleasing to Him.

Superfly said:
The thing is, if you are busy enough to worry about your own salvation, you don't have time to be worrying about anybody else's.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, learning this takes a long, prideful time, sigh. And even then, it's still a daily battle, at least for me.
 
Logicman said:
I don't think God and the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would agree with you.



And never in a good light.



Why do you defend the practice when God says it's an abomination?



The Bible is perfectly clear that gay sex is a sin and an abomination. There's nothing subjective about that.



You still haven't answered the question: Why do you defend and support that which God describes as an abomination and a sin?

Also, unless they repent, they will perish (Luke 13:3).
Click to expand...

Homosexuality is mentioned in Leviticus, along with a bunch of other proscriptions that are considered by Christians to be no longer applicable or to only apply to Jews, and in the Epistles, written by that old sinner Paul whose opinion is worth no more than yours or mine.
 
Superfly said:
You will always have people who cheat the system. That is nothing new, nor does it negate the fact that if you elect someone who campaigns on cutting social programs, and then social programs are cut, school lunch programs are slashed, medicare and medicaid go on the chopping block, Meals on Wheels are stopped, etc - you own that. You can't blame the losses of these programs on a handful of people who sell foodstamps for drugs. You have to take credit for the loss of those social programs, because you voted that candidate into office. It's on you, man. You and 63 million others voted to basically take food out of the mouths of children and the elderly. You don't get to walk away from doing something like that, and you don't get to place the blame on a bunch of crackheads. It's on you. Live with it.



I already agreed that Obamacare had problems, but you don't toss the whole thing and take tens of millions off of healthcare. You fix what's wrong and move on.



Will do.
Click to expand...

'Fraid not. Medicare still exists, I should know. School lunches and meals on wheels (a private charity) are still going strong. So is Social Security (for now). The sky is not falling, but people are still ripping us off.
 
nota bene said:
I always wonder about others' fixation with this one sin. Not that I think it's insignificant, but sin is sin. And each of us falls short every day.
Click to expand...

Yes we do. Thank God that he is a merciful God.


My fondest hope is that sincere effort is pleasing to Him.
Click to expand...

Same. Hopefully He will give us an A for effort. ;)


Sometimes, learning this takes a long, prideful time, sigh. And even then, it's still a daily battle, at least for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too. The best we can do is try.
 
 
Superfly said:
https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/advocacy/info-2017/house-budget-cuts-fd.html



https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-school-lunch_us_573c7e82e4b0ef86171cca10

Trump Budget: Proposal Would Cut Meals on Wheels Funding | Money



Republicans Will Cut Social Security and Medicare After Tax Plan Passes, Says Marco Rubio
Click to expand...

On the Social Security blurb - I just told you that, Social Security has been heading for insolvency for years. We all knew about it, Obama knew about it, and they did nothing. I told you earlier in this conversation what was going to happen. It's not a secret. That will happen regardless of tax cuts because there is no choice, there is only a finite amount of money in existence. The tax cuts are calculated to bring in more money.

The rest of this is speculation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom