Anonymous Internet Forums - Being Bullied

[justabubba]

When a person is beat upon so badly by trolling, THAT is bullying.

by 'beat upon', you mean subjected to posts with which they disagree
that is not even close to bullying
let's examine some of your potential responses:
one mouse click takes you away from the very 'hostile' environment you obviously deplore
another will place that poster on 'ignore' so that their subsequent posts are not visible to you
yet another takes you to some other - presumably happier - place on the net
or you could refuse to read it
you could choose to not be offended by what was posted
you can walk away from your screen to avoid something you find distasteful
and you could even summon a response to ... wait for it ... debate the point of view which was posted; one with which you disagree

A person's identity has nothing to do with it. If a poster cannot enjoy a little recreation in political discussion because every point they try and make is trolled to absurdity and that person will no longer post, THAT is bullying: the intent to to drive someone off.

wrong again
the decision to leave is YOURS alone
maybe you are non-confrontational. that is not the other poster's problem

Just go to the gun threads and watch what happens. I ran a thread that showed conclusively what happens to someone of a differing opinion in a gun thread, and it played out exactly as I predicted it would.

Around here, the fact is that this forum is a pro gun forum, populated by radical second amendment interpretations, the posters of which control certain areas of the forum. The result of course is that people who have a more liberal view; that is to say, and opinion that is drawn from more sources and experiences, not necessarily politically liberal, are hounded with trolling and so intentionally misrepresented by tag-team bullying that the topic becomes absolutely lost in the personal attacks.

i am among that group of forum members who is an advocate of (very strong) gun control
they do not hound me away. because i do not allow them to. it is my choice to stay and do battle. and in this battle of wits they often arrive unarmed
does that cause me to be a bully - that they are unable to move my position with fact or persuasion
no. because they are not ******s who hold the opinion that anyone who strongly disagrees with them must be a bully. they are ******s because they believe they might be harmed unless they bear arms

The philosophical applications of the art of debate are completely ignored and thus the experience becomes one of walking into a rock fight.

only there are no rocks to be hurled. there are only words and images on a screen. how can those things possibly hurt you. some anonymous member - or sock of a member - is only able to present words and images. YOU alone are responsible with how you respond to those posted words and images
it's part of personal responsibility. you alone are responsible for your feelings. only immature people try to hold others responsible for how they personally feel

 

[CanadaJohn]

Trolling is an infraction which generates points.

If you feel you're being trolled, report the post.

Problem solved.

How do you know that trolling generates points? You'd only know with certainty that was true if a) you were a moderator or b) if you were cited for trolling and got points. Otherwise, you'd have no idea at all if someone who constantly trolls gets infraction points.

I'm not going to get into subject matters better not discussed here but you're making a pretty big assumption if you think the problem is solved simply by reporting trolling.

 

[CanadaJohn]

I don't know that at all. I don't report people. I think I might have reported maybe 5 posts in the last few years. The most recent one was only because of an outright threat of violence one member made towards another.

This forum also has a DBAJ violation.
Report posts you think are violations and let the mods do what they do.
If you don't like it, you know where the door is.
Or use your ignore function.

Again, you'll be bothered by things here if you allow things to bother you.

Or, you can post what you want to say and move along.

Some people have a very bizarre tendency to think they have to respond to each and every post or comment made about them or their posts.

"Well, I sure as hell have to defend myself now don't I?" Actually, no. You don't. You can, but you don't have to.

I'm beginning to think you posted this OP as a troll thread, since anyone who doesn't tow your line of thinking gets the advice to find the door. Why did you ask for opinions when you're not interested in opinions other than your own?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

You asked/volunteered to join DP.
You control how you come across here.
You control how much of your "real" self is shown here.
You control what you post, and what you read.
You have an ignore feature in your control panel.
You can leave at any time.
Everything here is 100% voluntary on every level.
Nobody knows who you are in "real life".

Can someone seriously be "bullied" to the point of it being detrimental to their real world well being?

And if they can be pushed "too far" - who is at fault?
There's no reason to come to this web site outside of your own curiosity.

If DP is the straw that breaks the camel's back, it'd be way safe to say the camel was already carrying a massive load before making it to DP. Right?

Are there true "bullies" here at DP?
Is that more or less a reflection of real life?

A person can definitely be bullied on an Internet forum even if their membership is voluntary. That their membership is voluntary just means they have some amount of control over whether or not they continue to endure the bullying (I say "some amount of control" because some people have very low self-control.)

If someone who is being bullied at an Internet forum like DP continues to post at that forum, then perhaps they have decided that the benefits of posting outweigh the cons (e.g. they have made friends there). However, just because they have made that decision doesn't mean that they aren't "truly" being bullied or that they bullying isn't taking its toll. I will say that if the bullying is starting affect them negatively and they can't just brush it off, then they should re-evaluate whether or not the forum is worth it.

Are there bullies at DP? There are probably a few, but I can only think of one person who seems have made bullying a central part of their posting. I think that sometimes many DP members engage in bullying from time-to-time, but very few do so regularly. Most people are just rude, LOL.

 

[Nilly]

I don't know that at all. I don't report people. I think I might have reported maybe 5 posts in the last few years. The most recent one was only because of an outright threat of violence one member made towards another.

This forum also has a DBAJ violation.
Report posts you think are violations and let the mods do what they do.
If you don't like it, you know where the door is.
Or use your ignore function.

Again, you'll be bothered by things here if you allow things to bother you.

Or, you can post what you want to say and move along.

Some people have a very bizarre tendency to think they have to respond to each and every post or comment made about them or their posts.

"Well, I sure as hell have to defend myself now don't I?" Actually, no. You don't. You can, but you don't have to.

A great many people on this forum suffer from 'must respond syndrome'. DP definitely brings out the people who have to have the last laugh.

 

[Dragonfly]

How do you know that trolling generates points?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum-rules/28594-forum-rules.html

Check #3.

Baiting/trolling....yes, people get points for doing such things. Not always, sometimes there's just warnings, but not always.

 

[CanadaJohn]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum-rules/28594-forum-rules.html

Check #3.

Baiting/trolling....yes, people get points for doing such things. Not always, sometimes there's just warnings, but not always.

Yes, we all know the rules. They're not particularly relevant when talking about DP's famous trolls.

 

[Riveroaks]

no, put me back on your ignore list
i insist
notice that bullying behavior
trembling, huh

don't want you to get all verklempt over my responses to some of the stupid posts you have been inclined to make ... such as the one above

Ad hominem.

Violation.

 

[Mr Person]

Seems like fewer and fewer people are really interested in discussing issues here, and are more interested in scoring points. It gets old, and I can see a time when it just won't be worth my time to log in anymore.

Sadly, that was exactly why I moved here from another site.

Completely absent moderation lead to a combination of two things, which drove away virtually all of the more serious posters:

(a) broken records of the "progressives BAD! / conservatives POOPY!" variety. Every post would repeat the same general rants aimed at 50% of Americans....

(b) a group of a few "friends" who basically went around trolling-people in tandem.

The end result was that there'd be 19 garbage posts per 20 and it simply became impossible to avoid the endless interpersonal warfare. The forum slowly died.



From what I've seen here, at least (b) would be banned in relatively short order.

 

[CrabCake]

You asked/volunteered to join DP.

This would apply to pretty much any social situation. Any kind of school (besides grade school), club, workplace, volunteer situation, park, etc.

You control how you come across here.

Applies to every situation in life.

You control how much of your "real" self is shown here.

Other than physical appearance, ditto for this one.

You control what you post, and what you read.

You control what you say and listen to at the park or any other social situation also.

You have an ignore feature in your control panel.

Finally, a difference.

But it's a useless difference. Ignoring someone is dumb. Ignoring someone cripples you and no one else. It prevents you from being able to see what someone else is saying. It puts you at a disadvantage. It does not prevent the person from talking about you, ridiculing you, inciting others, or anything else. It doesn't prevent anyone else from seeing what the bully is saying and being affected by it. It merely cripples your own ability to see what is going on. No intelligent person would use that feature.

You can leave at any time.

Ditto with any park, social club, school, etc.

Everything here is 100% voluntary on every level.

Ditto with any park, social club, school, etc.

Nobody knows who you are in "real life".

If by "who you are" you mean "what you look like". Otherwise, sure they do.

Can someone seriously be "bullied" to the point of it being detrimental to their real world well being?

Sure. You've described no practical difference between being bullied here and at the park across the street or a school or social club or anything else. You can be bullied here as much as anywhere else.

And if they can be pushed "too far" - who is at fault?

The bully.

There's no reason to come to this web site outside of your own curiosity.

The same can be said about any park, social club, school, etc. You go there because you choose to be there. No one is forcing you, you just want to be there. Same as here.

If DP is the straw that breaks the camel's back, it'd be way safe to say the camel was already carrying a massive load before making it to DP. Right?

Maybe. So, what?

Are there true "bullies" here at DP?

I don't know of any. But I don't doubt there are. Since they exist in real life, surely they exist here.

Is that more or less a reflection of real life?

Exactly

Imagine you liked a certain park, but there was a bully there who picked on you incessantly, was always trying to start arguments with you, talked about you behind your back, always made you look bad, or whatever. Yes, you could choose to stop going to that park. But you shouldn't have to; bullies should not be having such control over who goes to the park. The bully is the one who should be asked to leave. Same thing here. Sure, this is voluntary, as are most social situations, but you shouldn't have to be faced with that choice; it's the bully who should be kicked out.

 

[Dragonfly]

Imagine you liked a certain park, but there was a bully there who picked on you incessantly,

The second you try to relate a person-to-person, real world threat to posts here at DP, you lose me.

Also, the ignore feature is a tool. Like any tool, if you use it correctly is provides a great deal of value. if you use it incorrectly, I guess you might feel "crippled" by it.
I rarely if ever use it, and when I do it's only temporary. I've found it's just as easy to simply use my brain and/or mouse button to ignore posts that I don't care to read.

I'm not trying to defend "internet bullying" here at DP. There are times when I wonder if that's in fact what I'm seeing happening here. Then I question whether or not it's bullying, or just passionate debate and perhaps over-sensitive reactions by the person who thinks they're being ganged-up upon.

It doesn't take being here long to know almost exactly what response you're going to get from starting a thread.
You know who will support your comments, and who will jump on them and pick 'em apart.

This is the internet "fight club" is it not?

Are you only feeling bullied because you have a point of view that the majority here disagree with?
Or is it perhaps that you act like a class-A idiot and deserve some rougher treatment?

If a member here is treated "too roughly", how much of it is the overall membership/mod staff, and how much is it the person who's being treated badly and how they behave?

If you're an arrogant, belligerent, pedantic jerk who craps a ton of word vomit all over the forum, do you deserve to be treated a certain way by certain people?

I wonder how many of the people who feel like they've been bullied here would be classified rather quickly by the rest as having deserved whatever they got?
They reaped what they sowed?

 

[Riveroaks]

The second you try to relate a person-to-person, real world threat to posts here at DP, you lose me.

Also, the ignore feature is a tool. Like any tool, if you use it correctly is provides a great deal of value. if you use it incorrectly, I guess you might feel "crippled" by it.
I rarely if ever use it, and when I do it's only temporary. I've found it's just as easy to simply use my brain and/or mouse button to ignore posts that I don't care to read.

I'm not trying to defend "internet bullying" here at DP. There are times when I wonder if that's in fact what I'm seeing happening here. Then I question whether or not it's bullying, or just passionate debate and perhaps over-sensitive reactions by the person who thinks they're being ganged-up upon.

It doesn't take being here long to know almost exactly what response you're going to get from starting a thread.
You know who will support your comments, and who will jump on them and pick 'em apart.

This is the internet "fight club" is it not?

Are you only feeling bullied because you have a point of view that the majority here disagree with?
Or is it perhaps that you act like a class-A idiot and deserve some rougher treatment?

If a member here is treated "too roughly", how much of it is the overall membership/mod staff, and how much is it the person who's being treated badly and how they behave?

If you're an arrogant, belligerent, pedantic jerk who craps a ton of word vomit all over the forum, do you deserve to be treated a certain way by certain people?

I wonder how many of the people who feel like they've been bullied here would be classified rather quickly by the rest as having deserved whatever they got?
They reaped what they sowed?

The ignore feature works great and I use it A LOT.

This is the best way to silence the psycho riffraff here and not even waste your time looking at their crap.

 

[Riveroaks]

This would apply to pretty much any social situation. Any kind of school (besides grade school), club, workplace, volunteer situation, park, etc.

Applies to every situation in life.

Other than physical appearance, ditto for this one.

You control what you say and listen to at the park or any other social situation also.

Finally, a difference.

But it's a useless difference. Ignoring someone is dumb. Ignoring someone cripples you and no one else. It prevents you from being able to see what someone else is saying. It puts you at a disadvantage. It does not prevent the person from talking about you, ridiculing you, inciting others, or anything else. It doesn't prevent anyone else from seeing what the bully is saying and being affected by it. It merely cripples your own ability to see what is going on. No intelligent person would use that feature.

Ditto with any park, social club, school, etc.

Ditto with any park, social club, school, etc.

If by "who you are" you mean "what you look like". Otherwise, sure they do.

Sure. You've described no practical difference between being bullied here and at the park across the street or a school or social club or anything else. You can be bullied here as much as anywhere else.

The bully.

The same can be said about any park, social club, school, etc. You go there because you choose to be there. No one is forcing you, you just want to be there. Same as here.

Maybe. So, what?

I don't know of any. But I don't doubt there are. Since they exist in real life, surely they exist here.

Exactly

Imagine you liked a certain park, but there was a bully there who picked on you incessantly, was always trying to start arguments with you, talked about you behind your back, always made you look bad, or whatever. Yes, you could choose to stop going to that park. But you shouldn't have to; bullies should not be having such control over who goes to the park. The bully is the one who should be asked to leave. Same thing here. Sure, this is voluntary, as are most social situations, but you shouldn't have to be faced with that choice; it's the bully who should be kicked out.

Splicing responses and replies is ugly. I need to re-print this first just to get an idea of what is being said.

Ok having now done so ...

A goodly 1% of the population anywhere is psycho and will eventually contribute to the prison population.

A goodly 10% is mentally ill.

That 11% is/are great candidates for muting. There is absolutely no value in dignifying their own indignity with acknowledgement.

In public I keep them on my radar. That way if I need to I can take them out.

 

[Dragonfly]

The ignore feature works great and I use it A LOT.

This is the best way to silence the psycho riffraff here and not even waste your time looking at their crap.

According to crabcake, you're "crippling" yourself.

 

[Riveroaks]

According to crabcake, you're "crippling" yourself.

CC is entitled to his/her own opinion of course.

However she/he will be wasting a lot of their own time that way, and that is essentially crippling himself/herself.

 

[Lovebug]

You asked/volunteered to join DP.
You control how you come across here.
You control how much of your "real" self is shown here.
You control what you post, and what you read.
You have an ignore feature in your control panel.
You can leave at any time.
Everything here is 100% voluntary on every level.
Nobody knows who you are in "real life".

Can someone seriously be "bullied" to the point of it being detrimental to their real world well being?

And if they can be pushed "too far" - who is at fault?
There's no reason to come to this web site outside of your own curiosity.

If DP is the straw that breaks the camel's back, it'd be way safe to say the camel was already carrying a massive load before making it to DP. Right?

Are there true "bullies" here at DP?
Is that more or less a reflection of real life?

Lack of self control and an overly inflated ego are the real culprits.

 

[HonestJoe]

The second you try to relate a person-to-person, real world threat to posts here at DP, you lose me.

As you keep saying to people. You’ve still not established how some elements of this kind of situation can never apply in both cases though. There are obviously differences but there are commonalities too.

I'm not trying to defend "internet bullying" here at DP. There are times when I wonder if that's in fact what I'm seeing happening here. Then I question whether or not it's bullying, or just passionate debate and perhaps over-sensitive reactions by the person who thinks they're being ganged-up upon.

There are lots of times people will claim they’re being targeted, ganged up on or bullied when it simply isn’t true – sometimes it’s a counter used by actual bullies. This can happen on line and in real life.

This is the internet "fight club" is it not?

No, the internet is a communications media. The material and applications running on the internet can be pretty much anything, based on any kind of social structure with any kind of rules and regulations.

Or is it perhaps that you act like a class-A idiot and deserve some rougher treatment?

So you think people of low intelligence deserve to be punished for that? Are you sure you’re not defending bullying? If you don’t like what someone is posting, why haven’t you followed your own advice of blocking them or simply choosing to leave?

 

[Riveroaks]

Lack of self control and an overly inflated ego are the real culprits.

That's precisely what puts the 11% into the 11% group.

 

[AGENT J]

You asked/volunteered to join DP.
You control how you come across here.
You control how much of your "real" self is shown here.
You control what you post, and what you read.
You have an ignore feature in your control panel.
You can leave at any time.
Everything here is 100% voluntary on every level.
Nobody knows who you are in "real life".

Can someone seriously be "bullied" to the point of it being detrimental to their real world well being?

And if they can be pushed "too far" - who is at fault?
There's no reason to come to this web site outside of your own curiosity.

If DP is the straw that breaks the camel's back, it'd be way safe to say the camel was already carrying a massive load before making it to DP. Right?

Are there true "bullies" here at DP?
Is that more or less a reflection of real life?

no its not because of the reasons you already said. Theres no requirement to be here.

 

[AGENT J]

1.)I’m not convinced that’s especially relevant in this context. If someone is being bullied somewhere (on-line or IRL), suggesting they should just leave that place is hardly a solution.

of course it is :shrug:

 

[Dragonfly]

As you keep saying to people. You’ve still not established how some elements of this kind of situation can never apply in both cases though. There are obviously differences but there are commonalities too.

There are lots of times people will claim they’re being targeted, ganged up on or bullied when it simply isn’t true – sometimes it’s a counter used by actual bullies. This can happen on line and in real life.

No, the internet is a communications media. The material and applications running on the internet can be pretty much anything, based on any kind of social structure with any kind of rules and regulations.

So you think people of low intelligence deserve to be punished for that? Are you sure you’re not defending bullying? If you don’t like what someone is posting, why haven’t you followed your own advice of blocking them or simply choosing to leave?

I'm speaking about bullying here at DP, and anonymous internet forums. Not internet bullying in general. Facebook bullying or twitter bullying is a completely different animal.

Here. Where you are anonymous, and the others here are anonymous. Here. Where a simple mouse click changes/eliminates everything instantly. (or places just like it)

You could be a 75 year old woman, a 13 year old boy, a garbage truck driver, a rocket scientist, or a CIA agent looking for terrorists. I don't know a thing about you.
Your name probably isn't Joe. Might be Samantha.

And this is a "fight club" of sorts because it's a debate forum designed around the very topics that are most inclined to cause people to fight. There's a valid reason why most forums don't allow politics an religion to be topics. People fight over them. Right? What topics are you never supposed to discuss at family gatherings and work parties? Religion and Politics.

You sign on here and start posting, your asking for it. What does "debate" mean?

 

[ttwtt78640]

The perception of being "ganged up upon" is absolutely possible here.

Gun Control
Abortion
Religion
Politics

We've all seen groups of like-minded members of DP reign down upon a post and beat it to a rotten pulp plenty of times.

Go post something about how AR-15's should require background checks, a one month waiting period to purchase, a medical and mental history of all the people residing in the house where the gun will be stored, registration, and a complete firearms safety course for all residents within that household and see if you get "ganged up upon" rather harshly.

Go say all rape victims, regardless of age, or who the rapist was, should be forced to carry pregnancy to term and give birth to the baby and see if you don't get ganged up upon.

Go say you're against any and all homosexual acts, marriages, relationships in any and all forms and see if you don't get ganged up upon.

Depending upon the gang, and your own level of self control, it might not take long to feel "bullied".

Or is the term "bully" not quite appropriate here?

Disagreement with an opinion, no matter how many others do so, is not bullying. Are those that lose elections being bullied simply because a majority preferred the winning candidate over them? If your feelings get hurt by simply having many folks disagree with you then the last thing you should do is to joint a debate forum or run for office.

 

[HonestJoe]

I'm speaking about bullying here at DP, and anonymous internet forums. Not internet bullying in general. Facebook bullying or twitter bullying is a completely different animal.

Here. Where you are anonymous, and the others here are anonymous. Here. Where a simple mouse click changes/eliminates everything instantly. (or places just like it)

Sure, but how does that make bullying impossible here as your OP implies? If you’re forced in to limiting your use of this forum (using “ignore” or avoiding certain sub-forums or topics), and certainly if you’re forced to stop using it entirely, that’s bullying which has worked.

And this is a "fight club" of sorts because it's a debate forum designed around the very topics that are most inclined to cause people to fight. There's a valid reason why most forums don't allow politics an religion to be topics. People fight over them. Right? What topics are you never supposed to discuss at family gatherings and work parties? Religion and Politics.

This forum isn’t a “fight club”. It allows discussion of politics and religion despite the fighting, not because of it. There are rules designed to minimise the fighting and instead encourage calm and respectful debate.

I don’t see how any of that is relevant to actual bullying though, which will usually be independent of the topic of discussion and wouldn’t be allowed in an actual “fight club” either.

You sign on here and start posting, your asking for it. What does "debate" mean?

A debate is a formal discussion where different views and opinions on a subject are presented and discussed, typically with the purpose of reaching some kind of majority conclusion or at least establish an extent of middle ground. I’m not clear what you think we were all “asking for” when we signed up here.

 

[Dragonfly]

Sure, but how does that make bullying impossible here as your OP implies? If you’re forced in to limiting your use of this forum (using “ignore” or avoiding certain sub-forums or topics), and certainly if you’re forced to stop using it entirely, that’s bullying which has worked.

#1) I'm not so sure I implied bullying was impossible.

#2) How would anyone "force" you into limiting your use of the forum? You can chose to use an ignore feature. You can chose to avoid certain topics or areas. But are you "forced" ?

I avoid the gun control area with passion about 95% of the year. I'll drop in on a thread maybe once or twice, then gone. That's my choice. Am I bullied out of there? I don't think so. I just chose not to :2brickwal on those topics, while I might very well chose to do that on others.

You don't have to listen to, read, or otherwise respond to the responses your posts get.

I can dump and run an anti-gun post and never look back. So how would I get bullied in the gun control forum unless I went back and read all the responses, and then tried to answer them all, and fight back, and on and on and on.

 

[HonestJoe]

#1) I'm not so sure I implied bullying was impossible.

Your OP asked a couple of question about whether bullying (in quotes) here can do real harm and whether bullies exist at all here. Based on your responses, I’d taken your answers to those questions to be no. Was I wrong?

#2) How would anyone "force" you into limiting your use of the forum? You can chose to use an ignore feature. You can chose to avoid certain topics or areas. But are you "forced" ?

If someone is actually being bullied and the only proposed “solution” is to do these things, I’d suggest the victim is being forced in to that action.

I can dump and run an anti-gun post and never look back. So how would I get bullied in the gun control forum unless I went back and read all the responses, and then tried to answer them all, and fight back, and on and on and on.

In which case you’re not engaging in debate. You’re free to use the forum in that way if you want (within the rules) but if someone wants to engage in actual debate, they do need to read the replies and respond to them. The actions of other posters against them could become so disruptive as to restrict their ability to do that, even if it’s just to the point of choosing to stop because it’s not worth the hassle.

All sorts of different behaviour could cause that problem for different posters and much of it couldn’t be classes as bullying but in some cases I’m sure it could.