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We men are tired of ....

Do you remember the Boy Scout motto? Be prepared. You get marginalized when you get taken by surprise because you didn't preserve your options.

tacomancer said:
I don't feel marginalized at all. If I want something, I go for it. If I am with a woman and I feel I am being treated poorly, we either work it out or I find someone better.

Its not that hard to do...
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SDET said:
Do you remember the Boy Scout motto? Be prepared. You get marginalized when you get taken by surprise because you didn't preserve your options.
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I've been through a divorce, which I got good terms for (I wrote the divorce papers myself). I negotiated a reasonable child support payment. I have full rights to my kids and one of them lives with me. I am on great terms with my ex-wife even. I was with a women for a couple of years who was pretty much a pro at gaslighting and other forms of emotional abuse. I wised up, dumped her ass, moved on. When I did, several great things happened to me in my life due to the good I put in the world.

Basically, I am a good dude, I make good decisions, I have my boundaries, and I get my respect because I am choosy with whom I associate (you can thank the mentioned ex-girlfriend for me learning to do that!).

At the end of the day, I am a middle aged, white, straight, male with a decent income.

I am far from marginalized :cool:

Own your power, it is a power that literally every human shares (not just men). Its called having self confidence, having boundaries, and having a sense of manners or other social graces.
 
Okay, let me explain how I see it.

Men and women have different strengths and weaknesses. Men's strengths come from the physical and being more aggressive. Woman's strengths come from being more social/political.
In the old days, men could use their strength by physically beating their wives. Women could use their strength by all of the social/emotional games that women are much better at then men.
Now that we have stopped the acceptance of men beating women, a man's strengths are minimalized. A woman's strength has been preserved, because playing social/emotional games in a
relationship is still allowed.

Now I don't support a man's ability to beat his wife. I also don't support a women's ability to abuse her husband socially/emotionally. In my life, I've known very few guys who beat their wives.
I've known many more women who abuse their husbands socially/emotionally. Unfortunately, our society has allowed a system where the woman or our society have much more true allowable/legal
power than their men.

I'm a older guy. Of all my male friends, most will concede that their wives really run the marriage. There has been a subtle social movement in our culture that realizes that marriage has become much more advantageous for the women than men, and men are starting to turn away from the idea of marriage.
 
gino said:
Okay, let me explain how I see it.

Men and women have different strengths and weaknesses. Men's strengths come from the physical and being more aggressive. Woman's strengths come from being more social/political.
In the old days, men could use their strength by physically beating their wives. Women could use their strength by all of the social/emotional games that women are much better at then men.
Now that we have stopped the acceptance of men beating women, a man's strengths are minimalized. A woman's strength has been preserved, because playing social/emotional games in a
relationship is still allowed.

Now I don't support a man's ability to beat his wife. I also don't support a women's ability to abuse her husband socially/emotionally. In my life, I've known very few guys who beat their wives.
I've known many more women who abuse their husbands socially/emotionally. Unfortunately, our society has allowed a system where the woman or our society have much more true allowable/legal
power than their men.

I'm a older guy. Of all my male friends, most will concede that their wives really run the marriage. There has been a subtle social movement in our culture that realizes that marriage has become much more advantageous for the women than men, and men are starting to turn away from the idea of marriage.
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Then only date/marry women who are emotional adults and don't play games.
 
...women who know how to gossip, hearsay, Talk, and soothsay, and even make appointments; who refuse to make appointments for heterosexual full body massage, simply to help a new boy friend get really really good at it.
 
tacomancer said:
Then only date/marry women who are emotional adults and don't play games.
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That's easy to say NOW, at my age. Think about back when you were in your early 20s and didn't know any better. Truth is, the average 20 something woman is more able to do "polite battle" in today's society than the typical 20 something guy. I know very few guys who DOMINATE their wives. I know a BUNCH of wives who rule their house like a queen.
 
...of it being so difficult to find women who are willing to be friends just to help us get really really good at full body massage
 
Lursa said:
Yes society does and is doing so more and more.

And if a man or woman has a kid, takes a certain job, stays in a relationship, doesnt want to 'make more money,' etc etc etc "because of what society thinks" then that's their own fault. Because there really arent any penalties.
/QUOTE]

Well.. other than its not socially acceptable for the man to decide not to work.

T
oday in family courts, men are being treated more and more equally
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Which is an admission that they ARE NOT and HAVE NOT been treated equally.

If a man accuses of woman of sexual assault.. and a woman accuses a man of sexual assault... who is most likely to be believed? Is it truly equal.?
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jaeger19 said:
Lursa said:
Yes society does and is doing so more and more.

And if a man or woman has a kid, takes a certain job, stays in a relationship, doesnt want to 'make more money,' etc etc etc "because of what society thinks" then that's their own fault. Because there really arent any penalties.
/QUOTE]

Well.. other than its not socially acceptable for the man to decide not to work.

T Which is an admission that they ARE NOT and HAVE NOT been treated equally.

If a man accuses of woman of sexual assault.. and a woman accuses a man of sexual assault... who is most likely to be believed? Is it truly equal.?
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It's not socially acceptable for any adult not to work, I dont think. However who says that child care and home upkeep are not work? Do we think that women that stay home to do those things arent working?

Re: sexual assault, I dont see at all that it's about 'not believing.' It's about reporting...and it's about a disparity of force.
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You overlooked whom you work with. You need to add only accept projects with women who are "emotional adults and don't play games".

tacomancer said:
Then only date/marry women who are emotional adults and don't play games.
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SDET said:
You overlooked whom you work with. You need to add only accept projects with women who are "emotional adults and don't play games".
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I have literally never once had a problem with that at work. Its also something I've never once thought about.
 
On sexual assault: It should be about evidence.

On housework: Most woman CAN do housework, so there's no shortage to bid up the price. Most men CANNOT earn a six figure income, so those that do are a "good catch". Many women start refusing to do housework once they notice how divorce and child support laws shift the balance of power. If you're ever in a venue where men can discuss these things without the likes of you turning them in for some sort of retaliatory action, you'll overhear conversations where men have wives that contribute very little while living in a 500K home and driving a luxury vehicle and wearing high end jewelry.

Lursa said:
It's not socially acceptable for any adult not to work, I dont think. However who says that child care and home upkeep are not work? Do we think that women that stay home to do those things arent working?

Re: sexual assault, I dont see at all that it's about 'not believing.' It's about reporting...and it's about a disparity of force.
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SDET said:
You overlooked whom you work with. You need to add only accept projects with women who are "emotional adults and don't play games".
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Good for you, if you have that "luxury".

Otherwise, I should prefer to be able to "flip a coin to get my even chance with any horrible boss."
 
It requires some "finesse". Generally, when you volunteer for one task, that makes you unavailable for other tasks.

danielpalos said:
Good for you, if you have that "luxury".

Otherwise, I should prefer to be able to "flip a coin to get my even chance with any horrible boss."
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SDET said:
On sexual assault: It should be about evidence.

On housework: Most woman CAN do housework, so there's no shortage to bid up the price. Most men CANNOT earn a six figure income, so those that do are a "good catch". Many women start refusing to do housework once they notice how divorce and child support laws shift the balance of power. If you're ever in a venue where men can discuss these things without the likes of you turning them in for some sort of retaliatory action, you'll overhear conversations where men have wives that contribute very little while living in a 500K home and driving a luxury vehicle and wearing high end jewelry.
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Wow the bold is just plain BS...your personal experience is not the real life experience for most.

And the fact that men 'believe' their female partners contribute so little speaks even less of the men than the women.

You also contradicted yourself...according to you, women decide to stop caring for home and kids when the man doesnt bring home enough bacon...and when he brings home $500K. So basically, you feel all women are just parasites good for little beyond sex. Which you must be stupid to invest in with one woman then, since you proudly discuss how much you enjoy prostitutes, how cheap and satisfying they are. Why do you and men like you (if there really are any) choose such a stupid option as marriage then?
 
Lursa said:
They did teach her to drive (he and sons) and were condescendingly proud of her...it was like they were discussing their pet golden retriever.

I've told him those women in such countries do not have the educations or opportunities for more so must settle for lower quality men (or men that choose to act as that way). And thus...the men are happy to keep them that way.

Bragging or being self-satisfied about possessing a woman with no other options doesnt sound like much of an accomplishment to me.
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The op seems to ideologically support taking pride in such.
 
Lursa said:
Wow the bold is just plain BS...your personal experience is not the real life experience for most.

And the fact that men 'believe' their female partners contribute so little speaks even less of the men than the women.

You also contradicted yourself...according to you, women decide to stop caring for home and kids when the man doesnt bring home enough bacon...and when he brings home $500K. So basically, you feel all women are just parasites good for little beyond sex. Which you must be stupid to invest in with one woman then, since you proudly discuss how much you enjoy prostitutes, how cheap and satisfying they are. Why do you and men like you (if there really are any) choose such a stupid option as marriage then?
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Simple: Sons and daughters are generally inclined to not let their parents become homeless or starve. Western wives walk away and "cash out" a marriage. At least kids wait until you die to cash you out. Plus there's a certain satisfaction in preparing somebody for this big bad world. That goes for kids and recent immigrants (I said immigrants, not aliens, there's a difference). A man can navigate marriage if he's very careful. It's kind of like driving a 4x4 at a 35 degree angle without tipping over. There's a certain thrill to it.
 
You are correct on one point. A man that can marry a "5" in the USA "sexual marketplace", can get an "8" or a "9" in a third world country. That's not to mention someone substantially younger. Why settle for a "5" point 35 year old when you can get an "8" or a "9" point 19 year old?

Lursa said:
They did teach her to drive (he and sons) and were condescendingly proud of her...it was like they were discussing their pet golden retriever.

I've told him those women in such countries do not have the educations or opportunities for more so must settle for lower quality men (or men that choose to act as that way). And thus...the men are happy to keep them that way.

Bragging or being self-satisfied about possessing a woman with no other options doesnt sound like much of an accomplishment to me.
Click to expand...
 
SDET said:
Simple: Sons and daughters are generally inclined to not let their parents become homeless or starve. Western wives walk away and "cash out" a marriage. At least kids wait until you die to cash you out. Plus there's a certain satisfaction in preparing somebody for this big bad world. That goes for kids and recent immigrants (I said immigrants, not aliens, there's a difference). A man can navigate marriage if he's very careful. It's kind of like driving a 4x4 at a 35 degree angle without tipping over. There's a certain thrill to it.
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If Western women do that, they dont do it for cash...they do it because their spouse has cheated, or beat them, or condescended to them like a pet, or treated them like a maid and prostitute. All things you have described clearly from the "haven" where you choose to live. And all, except perhaps the beating, that you participate in yourself.

But again...*your* views are not real life.
 
SDET said:
You are correct on one point. A man that can marry a "5" in the USA "sexual marketplace", can get an "8" or a "9" in a third world country. That's not to mention someone substantially younger. My settle for a "5" point 35 year old when you can get an "8" or a "9" point 19 year old?
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Your number only applies to looks, doesnt it?

So yes, males that are 2s and 3s can get 'more for their money' in other places...but these 2s and 3s are that level for more than just their looks. The number speaks to the entire worth of the male. Otherwise he wouldnt be 'shopping' somewhere where the women had few to no choices.
 
SDET said:
You are correct on one point. A man that can marry a "5" in the USA "sexual marketplace", can get an "8" or a "9" in a third world country. That's not to mention someone substantially younger. Why settle for a "5" point 35 year old when you can get an "8" or a "9" point 19 year old?
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But, you sure avoid what number western women give you.:lamo
 
That number would be on one's 1040 tax form entitled "Adjusted Gross Income".

beefheart said:
But, you sure avoid what number western women give you.:lamo
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SDET said:
That number would be on one's 1040 tax form entitled "Adjusted Gross Income".
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Too bad you don't have the ability to understand just how sad that is.
 
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