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Constitutional carry now in effect in Oklahoma.

...many in the military will not support a dictatorship trying to seize guns...

I would go further and say that many in the (US) military wouldn't support a dictatorship period.

This is why banning guns needs to be Constitutional - with a Constitutional amendment backing it up and repealing the 2nd amendment.

In the meantime, let's impose a national firearms database, mandatory background checks and 100% firearm registration across the USA.
 
a lite bit seems even people with guns get ****ed over fighting people with tanks air craft and missiles and other fancy fighting tools and that people who have less resources seem to use hit and run attacks ambushes and traps when fighting a better equipped people


and that during a revolution /civil war people don't seem to picky about who gets hurt

and that other revolutionaries are also the enemy if they don't want the same things

just don't stick those armed americans in 1 spot
A couple of things you didn't consider during a revolution/insurrection (it only becomes a "revolution" if the insurrectionists win, otherwise it is a failed insurrection).

  • The US military swears its allegiance to the US Constitution, not to an individual. They also only obey lawful orders. Therefore, no President or act of Congress can compel the US military to violate the US Constitution.
  • The source of supplies for the military comes from the civilian sector. Which means that if the military is attacking civilians it is unlikely the military will be supplied. The military may have stockpiles of ammunition and fuel stored around the nation, but how long do you think they can fight without food?
  • The US military consists of ~1.4 million active duty personnel and another ~800,000 in reserve. There are well over 250 million privately owned firearms in the US, and ten times the number of civilians who have been military trained but are no longer in the military.
If there ever was a revolution in the US the military wouldn't stand a chance. It would be a very short lived engagement, as the military would be constrained to fighting a defensive battle that they can't win.

Thankfully, such a scenario would never put to the test because the US military cannot be made to violate their oath to protect and defend the US Constitution.
 
I would go further and say that many in the (US) military wouldn't support a dictatorship period.

This is why banning guns needs to be Constitutional - with a Constitutional amendment backing it up and repealing the 2nd amendment.
In the 228 years the Second Amendment has existed within the US Constitution not a single bill has ever been introduced to change, much less repeal, the Second Amendment. Even if Congress were to one day get a two-thirds majority and propose repealing the Second Amendment, it would still require a minimum of 38 State legislatures to give their approval. The majority of those States also recognize the ancient individual right to keep and bear arms. So I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

In the meantime, let's impose a national firearms database, mandatory background checks and 100% firearm registration across the USA.
Anti-American leftist freaks already attempted each of those criminal acts, and they were all eliminated because they all violated the US Constitution.
 
My argument is before conceal carry most people who carried a gun I felt safe around. Since we take the right to protect yourself when needed by carrying a firearm and turned it into a government granted privilege I am seeing guns falling on the floor, people with guns drunk, people who cannot go to the store without their gun, etc. I wanted to run to the local grocery store to get barbeque sauce and my friend says wait I need to get my gun. I told him if it is that dangerous maybe we shouldn't go. I cannot tell you how many people have handed me a loaded gun to look at. I handed it back and asked the to unload it and they didn't know how. Fact. I never had that happen before concealed carry.

To what do you attribute this?
 
You keep telling yourself that. Anti-2nd amendment trash don't give two ****s how responsible gun owners are. They could care less if there was only a thousand murders a year or even a hundred murders a year they will still push for bans. Also if anti-2nd amendment trash outnumbered 2nd amendment advocates then bans on semiautomatic firearms at the federal level would have happened a long time ago.Also the Clinton gun ban proved that Americans don't want firearms banned because it cost democrats the house and senate.

It did then. It might again next time. The time after that, it might not. When that happens, do you want the attitude of the anti-second amendment to be one of cooperation with their fellow citizens who are willing to meet in the middle, or vengeance against their political enemies who refused to give an inch?
 
It did then. It might again next time. The time after that, it might not. When that happens, do you want the attitude of the anti-second amendment to be one of cooperation with their fellow citizens who are willing to meet in the middle, or vengeance against their political enemies who refused to give an inch?

Meeting in the middle or a compromise implies that both sides are giving up something in order to get something in return. What is the anti-2nd amendment side giving up? Because the pro-2nd amendment side has been giving up something for decades while the anti-2nd amendment side has given up nothing. The pro-2nd amendment side has went from being able to buy and carry any kind of firearm they wanted to bans on automatic firearms, waiting periods, even bans on certain semiautomatic firearms, ban on ten to thirty round standard capacity magazines in some states, licenses/permits to be able to just exercise an enshrined constitutional right, and many other things. Every so called compromise or meeting in the middle is another part of the 2nd amendment chipped away.
 
No, that's actually a phobia




Yes, yes and yes (though preferring a much more extensive gun ban)





The question is not whether we want to ban guns and take your guns away

It is why we want to disarm you

It is NOT because we dislike gun owners and would never invite them round for coffee it is because of the potential death and destruction of lives their toys can cause.

Because of people like you who have said they want to ban all guns its an outright lie to say gun owners are paranoid.

Why do you want a gun ?
Its none of your ****ing business why I want a gun.I do not need to justify why I do or do not exercise a constitutional right.
 
“In other words you included irrelevant statistics to fraudulently boost the number of people actually die of violent deaths in order to give the false impression of how died from firearm homicides.”

No. I gave more relevant statistics to include all deaths related to firearms, which is the greater concern. It would be even more relevant to include injuries. Homicides have much less relevance to do with firearm safety law as the greater, positive impact gun laws have on saving lives is in all areas, not just homicide. Saving more lives is more relevant. Limiting statistics to homicide only is ignoring the whole of the problem of people dying and being injured due to the prevalence of guns in people’s lives.

All a firearm homicide rate is used for is to make a place that has way more actual homicides which is usually ran by liberals seem way safer than a place with less actual homicides.You are not more likely to die from a firearm homicide in Alaska than you in Illinois. Anyone claiming you are more likely to die from a firearm homicide in Alaska than you are in Illinois is either a liar or a brain dead idiot.”

I don’t think the statistics I gave are wrong. The fact is, if I go into a small town that has twice the ratio of murder rate than that of a large city, I am more likely to be murdered in that small town than that large city. Otherwise, the ratios would be different. If more likely in Illinois than Alaska, the homicide rate in Illinois would be higher. If you don’t get that, then I don’t know how you ever got through math class in school. If you went to school.

“Correlation doesn't equal causation”.

You’re not going to get scientific proof of causation in practically anything. If laws were promulgated on scientific proof only, there would hardly be any law passed. Statistically, when you get many states getting the same results from passing similar law, that is statistical support to say there is a relationship between the law and the result unless you can find another possible impact that is also a correlation relatively timed.

“Those laws didn't ban ropes or prevent people from duying of drug overdoses or jumping from a building.”

The point is, gun suicide went down and so did total suicide. So, it can be said those people that didn’t have easy gun access as before chose not to commit either suicide by gun or by other means. I don’t know what you mean to be the relationship between a gun law not addressing what you say. What’s your point?

“PLus those studies never explain how those laws stop people from committing suicide.”

As an example, requiring a waiting period allows a person bent on suicide time to cool-off. Universal background checks can find out if a person has been determined a danger to themselves or others due to mental condition.

The results, the facts, support stronger gun law to reduce gun-related death. Judging the success of such a law by homicide rate only is taking a small part of the whole as if representative of it all, and it’s not.

Suicides are irrelevant due to the fact they are intentional. stricter gun laws do not ban rope, carbon monoxide bridges or other **** people use to off themselves. Anti-2nd amendment pieces of **** love to add suicides to homicides because apparently 12 to 14 thousand homicides a year is not a high enough number to scare people into banning firearms.
 
Meeting in the middle or a compromise implies that both sides are giving up something in order to get something in return. What is the anti-2nd amendment side giving up? Because the pro-2nd amendment side has been giving up something for decades while the anti-2nd amendment side has given up nothing. The pro-2nd amendment side has went from being able to buy and carry any kind of firearm they wanted to bans on automatic firearms, waiting periods, even bans on certain semiautomatic firearms, ban on ten to thirty round standard capacity magazines in some states, licenses/permits to be able to just exercise an enshrined constitutional right, and many other things. Every so called compromise or meeting in the middle is another part of the 2nd amendment chipped away.

Of course they're giving something up: They're giving up their hope of feeling completely safe from gun violence and their dreams of European-style gun restrictions. Completely unregulated firearms are not tenable for the anti-second amendment. Any freedom of their neighbors to own and use firearms at all is giving something up for many of them. The pro-second amendment folks can attempt to be sympathetic to these fears, however irrational, and try to meet them half way as a show of good faith, or they can cross their arms and tell them "tough, it's in the constitution." The former may feel unfair, but in today's political climate of growing liberalism and globalism the latter is unwise: You are making an enemy you can't defeat instead of making a friend you can influence.

The battle for the second amendment can only be won through compromise, not force of will. Playing hardball against the liberals will only accelerate their agenda.
 
To what do you attribute this?

I know a lot of people who went out and got a conceal carry because it was a fad. I remember when the first person that I work with got a conceal carry permit. That was the big deal. Every day he was flashing his gun and talking how he was ready if anyone attacked him. Next thing you know everyone wants to carry a gun. Finally the boss said you can carry but not at work. I have gotten complaints from customers about being afraid to come in to the store with all the gun play. It reminded me of kids in a schoolyard when one kid got a sling shot or new pair of shoes. All of a sudden everyone had to have a gun. I found a loaded gun on the floor. The idiot was packing two guns and did not even realize he was missing one. I have been out with too many friends drunk packing a gun and bragging about their conceal carry permit. Where before they were leery of caring a gun even when and where it was probably not a bad idea once they got the permit now they cannot go anywhere without being armed. The sad truth is there are too many people in this world that are not responsible but there is no way to know until after it is too late.
 
Of course they're giving something up: They're giving up their hope of feeling completely safe from gun violence and their dreams of European-style gun restrictions. Completely unregulated firearms are not tenable for the anti-second amendment. Any freedom of their neighbors to own and use firearms at all is giving something up for many of them. The pro-second amendment folks can attempt to be sympathetic to these fears, however irrational, and try to meet them half way as a show of good faith, or they can cross their arms and tell them "tough, it's in the constitution." The former may feel unfair, but in today's political climate of growing liberalism and globalism the latter is unwise: You are making an enemy you can't defeat instead of making a friend you can influence.

The battle for the second amendment can only be won through compromise, not force of will. Playing hardball against the liberals will only accelerate their agenda.

that essentially is their blueprint for incrementally banning guns
 
Because of people like you who have said they want to ban all guns its an outright lie to say gun owners are paranoid....

But we're not out to "get" gun owners and destroy the fabric of American society. We're just trying to get your guns.


And no, you will not starve to death or be attacked within a day/month/year or whatever it is you claim.

So stop being so paranoid

...its none of your ****ing business why I want a gun...

It is because we suspect the only reason for gun owners to have guns is to massage your egos and simply for fun.

And that comes a very poor second to the lives of the victims of mass shootings.
 
In the 228 years the Second Amendment has existed within the US Constitution not a single bill has ever been introduced to change, much less repeal, the Second Amendment. Even if Congress were to one day get a two-thirds majority and propose repealing the Second Amendment, it would still require a minimum of 38 State legislatures to give their approval. The majority of those States also recognize the ancient individual right to keep and bear arms. So I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Yes I grant you it's a challenge. But in 1969 the previous 200,000 years of human civilization had never been to the moon

Are we to halt in the face of adversity now ?


...anti-American leftist freaks already attempted each of those criminal acts, and they were all eliminated because they all violated the US Constitution.


Why is banning guns "anti-American" ?
 
A couple of things you didn't consider during a revolution/insurrection (it only becomes a "revolution" if the insurrectionists win, otherwise it is a failed insurrection).

  • The US military swears its allegiance to the US Constitution, not to an individual. They also only obey lawful orders. Therefore, no President or act of Congress can compel the US military to violate the US Constitution.
  • The source of supplies for the military comes from the civilian sector. Which means that if the military is attacking civilians it is unlikely the military will be supplied. The military may have stockpiles of ammunition and fuel stored around the nation, but how long do you think they can fight without food?
  • The US military consists of ~1.4 million active duty personnel and another ~800,000 in reserve. There are well over 250 million privately owned firearms in the US, and ten times the number of civilians who have been military trained but are no longer in the military.
If there ever was a revolution in the US the military wouldn't stand a chance. It would be a very short lived engagement, as the military would be constrained to fighting a defensive battle that they can't win.

Thankfully, such a scenario would never put to the test because the US military cannot be made to violate their oath to protect and defend the US Constitution.

so the military can not be made to oppress us and cant take what they need to sustain themselves

and that's why we need to let everyone have what ever weapons they want no matter how many people it hurts and kills?
 
You got it exactly backwards. Allowing anyone and everyone to carry makes life extremely difficult for the common criminal. Criminals are rational, they weigh costs and benefits just like everyone else. Raising the cost of crime is a good thing. It's not "asking for trouble", it's creating a safer society.

In that case we should do same here in Finland? Seriously I don't even know who's criminal, I'm pretty sure I've seen some without knowing it. Having more guns means more safety?
 
In that case we should do same here in Finland? Seriously I don't even know who's criminal, I'm pretty sure I've seen some without knowing it. Having more guns means more safety?

Having a better means to defend your person makes you safer, yes.
 
Why is banning guns "anti-American" ?
Because it violates the principles upon which the US was founded. If you support "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," then you are pro-American. If you vehemently oppose those founding principles then you are anti-American. Hence, restricting the liberties of Americans by banning the ancient individual right to keep and bear arms qualifies as being anti-American.
 
Because it violates the principles upon which the US was founded. If you support "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," then you are pro-American. If you vehemently oppose those founding principles then you are anti-American. Hence, restricting the liberties of Americans by banning the ancient individual right to keep and bear arms qualifies as being anti-American.

not sure you supporting life and people are haivng the liberty and happiness taken away when other people go rogue with guns and you have this all or nothing bull**** like any limits and regulations mean you wont be able to have any guns
 
so the military can not be made to oppress us and cant take what they need to sustain themselves
The military can be made to oppress us. Congress would have to repeal the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. That is merely a statute law, so it only requires an act of Congress to change or repeal. At that point the military can then be used by the President to enforce domestic law. Once the Posse Comitatus Act was repealed it would be lawful to use the military to enforce any law Congress enacts, therefore the military must comply. Even if those laws oppress the people.

and that's why we need to let everyone have what ever weapons they want no matter how many people it hurts and kills?
We let everyone own whatever weapons they want because they have the individual right. Under English common law that individual right goes back to 1215 and the Magna Carta. In Pennsylvania's Declaration of Rights of 1776 said: "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves, and the state..." In 1777 Vermont adopted the identical provision. In 1780 Massachusetts Constitution stated "The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defense..."

Would you wish to repeal the First Amendment and abolish everyone's individual right to free speech because a few people libeled or slandered someone? It would be just as foolish to consider abolishing everyone's individual right to keep and bear arms because a few idiots abused their right.
 
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Because it violates the principles upon which the US was founded. If you support "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," then you are pro-American. If you vehemently oppose those founding principles then you are anti-American. Hence, restricting the liberties of Americans by banning the ancient individual right to keep and bear arms qualifies as being anti-American.

Why do you assume the gun control doesn't want you to defend yourself.

Do you feel all countries that ban guns (and they don't ban ALL guns) deny you that right ?


What do you think motivated the gun control lobby - the thought of you robbed/raped/dead in tour own home.

You think the gun control lobby is just malevolent ?
 
Why do you assume the gun control doesn't want you to defend yourself.

Do you feel all countries that ban guns (and they don't ban ALL guns) deny you that right ?


What do you think motivated the gun control lobby - the thought of you robbed/raped/dead in tour own home.

You think the gun control lobby is just malevolent ?

Look what happened in 1930s Germany. In 1934 Germany required the registration of all privately owned firearms. By 1938 Germany was confiscating everyone of those registered firearms. Or take an even more modern example. In 1992 Australia required the registration of all privately owned firearms. By 1996 Australia was confiscating all of those registered firearms, except for .22 rim-fire rifles and shotguns.

The "Gun Control Lobby" is unquestionably malevolent. The only purpose to disarm a populace is to impose fascism. Which is why it is always the leftists, and only the leftists, who seek to ban privately owned firearms. Only by keeping a well-armed citizenry can we keep leftist fascism at bay.
 
Look what happened in 1930s Germany....


LMFAO


You're like some patriotic redneck who says that the USA is not a democracy because "ancient Greece" tried it and failed

Nazi Germany (apart from being a Republic) was also a dictatorship

Nazi Germany built the world's first highways too...are they a bad thing ?

Nazi Germany spent a lot of money on defense - sound familiar close to home ?


Why don't you list countries that banned and confiscated guns that WERE NOT a dictatorship ? I know like the UK


...in 1992 Australia required the registration of all privately owned firearms. By 1996 Australia was confiscating all of those registered firearms, except for .22 rim-fire rifles and shotguns....

Because of a mass shooting at Port Arthur, in the USA the presidential response is to send "thoughts and prayers"


...the "Gun Control Lobby" is unquestionably malevolent. The only purpose to disarm a populace is to impose fascism....

You're a right wing crack pot who probably thinks that Hitler was a liberal


So to your mind, Australia and the UK are about to become fascist governments.

Every country on Earth that restricts guns is about to become fascists ?

I bet you polish your Colt .45 every night and look for a sign to rise up and overthrow the tyrant (like Bernie Sanders) in the White House....SMH
You are sad.


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LMFAO
You're like some patriotic redneck who says that the USA is not a democracy because "ancient Greece" tried it and failed
The US is not a democracy, and never has been. According to Article IV, Section 4, Clause 1 of the US Constitution "[t]he United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government..." The US is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

Nazi Germany (apart from being a Republic) was also a dictatorship
More specifically, a leftist dictatorship. Similar to Benito Mussolini's socialist Italian Fascist Party.

Why don't you list countries that banned and confiscated guns that WERE NOT a dictatorship ? I know like the UK
Because only dictatorships have the power to ban privately owned firearms, including the UK. The same in Australia, where nobody has any rights. Everything is determined by an all-powerful Parliament that has no limitations on its authority.

Why do you think the US broke away from England in the first place? The deciding factor that began the American revolution was when the British fascists attempted to seize American firearms at Lexington and Concord.

Because of a mass shooting at Port Arthur, in the USA the presidential response is to send "thoughts and prayers"
Because our President has enough intelligence to know that infringing on the rights of every American is not the answer. Too bad you can't say the same for your leaders, but then you live where they don't acknowledge ANY individual rights. Which is why you will always be subjects instead of citizens.

So to your mind, Australia and the UK are about to become fascist governments.
Not about to be. They already crossed that line a long time ago.

Every country on Earth that restricts guns is about to become fascists ?
Or already are.

I bet you polish your Colt .45 every night and look for a sign to rise up and overthrow the tyrant (like Bernie Sanders) in the White House....SMH
You would lose that bet since I live where my individual rights are both acknowledged and protected. It is too bad you cannot say the same.
 
Because it violates the principles upon which the US was founded. If you support "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," then you are pro-American. If you vehemently oppose those founding principles then you are anti-American. Hence, restricting the liberties of Americans by banning the ancient individual right to keep and bear arms qualifies as being anti-American.

The USA was also founded on slavery.

Other countries somehow afford life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without guns.


The USA was also founded in the 18th century...things have changed a bit since then.
 
The USA was also founded on slavery.
No, in fact it was not. Slavery existed, but it had nothing to do with the US founding principle that "all men are created equal" as expressed by the Declaration of Independence.

Other countries somehow afford life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without guns.
No, they don't. The US is unique in that regard.

The USA was also founded in the 18th century...things have changed a bit since then.
The US Constitution has been amended 27 times thus far. That last time was in 1992.
 
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