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U.S. economy suffers titanic 32.9% plunge in 2nd quarter, GDP shows, and points to drawn-out recover

Bullseye said:
Show me one state that opened on Trump's order. California, at least, has already told him "**** you, we got this school opening thing". From what I've seen in other states that's pretty much universal.
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Please. That is either an ignorant or disingenuous question. I know you are not that ignorant on such things and being disingenuous is a form of dishonesty, so lets not.

The President's power is NOT in his ability to "order" things; its in his ability to lead and influence. While Trump is a rather poor leader, he somehow has managed to have pretty much all elected Republicans do his will in a way that exceeds almost any other president for at least a generation. There are few that have ever stood up to him on any issue, but even fewer that are truly independent thinkers and doer. He pretty much commands the elected Republicans in the US (not on every single thing, but on most things). There are certainly exceptions to that statement, but those exceptions are not the governors of Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Texas and Arizona.

Trump wanted the states open and the economy back to "normal". He was far too impatient to have that happen in accordance to CDC guidelines, so he undermined his own CDC demanding governors push the economy opened faster than it was intended. Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Texas and Arizona all ceded to his wishes and rushed the re-opening of their economies (while some, substantially all Republican led states, never closed) against the opinion of experts, and to the mortal detriment of 10's of 1000's of Americans. Trump could have well enforced CDC guidelines and the various states would have listened. Instead, Trump undermined the CDC guidelines and the various states listened.

Report: CDC COVID-19 reopening guidelines shelved | CIDRAP
 
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upsideguy said:
Please. That is either an ignorant or disingenuous question. I know you are not that ignorant on such things and being disingenuous is a form of dishonesty, so lets not.

The President's power is NOT in his ability to "order" things; its in his ability to lead and influence. While Trump is a rather poor leader, he somehow has managed to have pretty much all elected Republicans do his will in a way that exceeds almost any other president for at least a generation. There are few that have ever stood up to him on any issue, but even fewer that are truly independent thinkers and doer. He pretty much commands the elected Republicans in the US (not on every single thing, but on most things). There are certainly exceptions to that statement, but those exceptions are not the governors of Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Texas and Arizona.

Trump wanted the states open and the economy back to "normal". He was far too impatient to have that happen in accordance to CDC guidelines, so he undermined his own CDC demanding governors push the economy opened faster than it was intended. Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Texas and Arizona all ceded to his wishes and rushed the re-opening of their economies (while some, substantially all Republican led states, never closed) against the opinion of experts, and to the mortal detriment of 10's of 1000's of Americans. Trump could have well enforced CDC guidelines and the various states would have listened. Instead, Trump undermined the CDC guidelines and the various states listened.

Report: CDC COVID-19 reopening guidelines shelved | CIDRAP
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Talk about "disingenuous" :roll: Of course the President enjoys the "bully pulpit" - he's listened to, because he IS the President. But the notion that Governor would totally forsake his duties and responsibilities to the citizens of his state is ludicrous.

Yeah, Trump wanted the states to "gradually" open. His responsibility extends well beyond that of CDC. As far as Fauci and the CDC are concerned they're perfectly happy to have the entire population remain quarantined ad infinitum; Trump doesn't have that luxury; he's responsible not only for dealing with the pandemic but also the general welfare of the country. He realizes that we can't continue borrowing trillions of dollars to hand out. I think he also realized the intangibles, depression, isolation, lack of socialization, impacts on childretn's development - are outside CDC bailiwick but something Trump and other political leaders have to lump into their decisions

IMHO, the problem is less that we "opened too fast" but that swarms of people totally disregarded the implied condition that we continue with masking and social distancing and keeping group activities small. Here in California we've compromised slight by closing bars and indoor dining, along with many other indoor businesses such as gyms, malls, barbers and hair salons, etc.(many can continue to operate outdoors under some restrictions.

We are are own worst enemy on this.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
What is your proposal for dealing with the ways Americans drive all over creation?

Why won't George and Lucy from Hotspottown in Hotspot state just drive over the line to NoCovidNowtown to go to a restaurant or bar?

That sort of behavior is already happening. So, it's not a hypothetical question.
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"My proposal"? Shoot on sight? Armed checkpoints? I wasn't proposing anything. Just pointing the distribution of cases within large states is not homogenous.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
A pandemic sweeps the world which was made much worst because China lied about what was happening! To help slow the pandemic from
overwhelming our medical system the country was shut down for months. So now some are surprised that the economy took a tremendous loss?

Just remember the democrats want the economy shut down till the election. We see how Biden would do... He is in the basement in Delaware.
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Josh darn it if China had only told the world 1 week earlier the US would have has 3 full months to do pretty much nothing.

No matter how much advanced knowledge, US policy was not going to change, and the US would still have screwed it up compared to South Korea and Germany
 
Bullseye said:
"My proposal"? Shoot on sight? Armed checkpoints? I wasn't proposing anything. Just pointing the distribution of cases within large states is not homogenous.
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The lack homogeneity is true.
But mobility may make it so that many less infected area will necessarily be included in the bubble of the more infected areas.

Maybe four hours drive time radius around hot spots?

idk

maybe more


The real thing is individuals need to find their own motivations for doing the right thing.

That requirement is what makes Trump's poo-pooing so insidious and awful
Trump's poo-pooing creates an uncooperative attitude which harms Americans.
 
U.S. economy suffers titanic 32.9% plunge in 2nd quarter, GDP shows, and points to drawn-out recover



Trump really screwed up the COVID-19 virus thing.


He wanted everyone to reopen so the economy would rebound. Reopening just inflamed the virus and made it spread like wildfire.


This is what happens when you elect an idiot.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
The lack homogeneity is true.
But mobility may make it so that many less infected area will necessarily be included in the bubble of the more infected areas.

Maybe four hours drive time radius around hot spots?

idk

maybe more


The real thing is individuals need to find their own motivations for doing the right thing.

That requirement is what makes Trump's poo-pooing so insidious and awful
Trump's poo-pooing creates an uncooperative attitude which harms Americans.
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I don't doubt some of that happens. San Diego tends to be a destination spot so we see a lot of out oft owners. Conversely, I don't doubt a lot of Socalers head east to Las Vegas or the Reno/Lake Tahoe region. It seems like every other day I get "invitations" to some Vegas resort I visited in the last several years. I'm not seeing this "Trump poo-pooing" you talk about. As the country's leader he has to maintain a positive, enthusiastic demeanor. We can't just keep borrowing trillions and mailing out checks while we peons stay hunkered down in our homes. A far bigger problem than any supposed Trump fault is the incredible number of people that STILL don't believe seperation and masking is necessary; instant gratification rules, unfortunately.
 
Bullseye said:
I don't doubt some of that happens. San Diego tends to be a destination spot so we see a lot of out oft owners. Conversely, I don't doubt a lot of Socalers head east to Las Vegas or the Reno/Lake Tahoe region. It seems like every other day I get "invitations" to some Vegas resort I visited in the last several years. I'm not seeing this "Trump poo-pooing" you talk about. As the country's leader he has to maintain a positive, enthusiastic demeanor. We can't just keep borrowing trillions and mailing out checks while we peons stay hunkered down in our homes. A far bigger problem than any supposed Trump fault is the incredible number of people that STILL don't believe seperation and masking is necessary; instant gratification rules, unfortunately.
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You didn't notice Trump saying concerns about covid were a hoax just to make him look bad?

You didn't notice Trump saying covid would just go away?

etc.?

That's ... unexpected.


Do you not see that as poo-pooing covid concerns?
 
Bullseye said:
Show me one state that opened on Trump's order. California, at least, has already told him "**** you, we got this school opening thing". From what I've seen in other states that's pretty much universal.
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9dda893ef5e54f4f93cff87050d26f6e.png


This began the flood of southern red states reopening far too soon.

The red states that are currently underwater with COVID.
 
And just to jog some memories

[video=youtube;ch7_t2Ri2Zg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?ch7_t2Ri2Zg[/video]
 
Rogue Valley said:
9dda893ef5e54f4f93cff87050d26f6e.png


This began the flood of southern red states reopening far too soon.

The red states that are currently underwater with COVID.
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Did I say Trump didn't encourage opening up? Why is that such a difficult concept for you lefties to grasp? Encouraging is NOT ordering; ONLY the governor of a state can order its open/close status.

A few months ago you guys were screaming when Trump CLAIMED he had the authority to order states to open. You guy fell in love with federalism when Orange Man was stymied. Now, you're claiming it's his fault. Since his election you guys have been pushing Trump as a dictatorial fascist - now you're pissed because he isn't? :eek:
 
Simon W. Moon said:
You didn't notice Trump saying concerns about covid were a hoax just to make him look bad?
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Didn't miss it because he never said it.
Simon W. Moon said:
You didn't notice Trump saying covid would just go away?
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And . . . it will, eventually, which he also said.





Simon W. Moon said:
Do you not see that as poo-pooing covid concerns?
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Nope, I see it as someone (maybe you) swallowing the BS most of the media is serving as "news".
 
99percenter said:
Were lucky for you, I have the video of him calling it a hoax right here.
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Seen this several times. Still doesn't say what you THINK he does. Do the words "This is THEIR NEW HOAX" mean anything to you?
 
Bullseye said:
Show me one state that opened on Trump's order. California, at least, has already told him "**** you, we got this school opening thing". From what I've seen in other states that's pretty much universal.
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Right wing defense of Trump's Covid response:

"Trump did nothing"

Sent from my U683CL using Tapatalk
 
sangha said:
Right wing defense of Trump's Covid response:

"Trump did nothing"

Sent from my U683CL using Tapatalk
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Left wing response: Whatever Trump's for, I'm against. He said he had the power to open/close the country - I said he doesn't. Now I say he failed to close the country.
 
Bullseye said:
Left wing response: Whatever Trump's for, I'm against. He said he had the power to open/close the country - I said he doesn't. Now I say he failed to close the country.
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I noticed that you didn't even TRY to refute the claim that Trump did nothing

Because that's your "defense"

Sent from my U683CL using Tapatalk
 
sangha said:
I noticed that you didn't even TRY to refute the claim that Trump did nothing

Because that's your "defense"

Sent from my U683CL using Tapatalk
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Why should I bother to refute - you guys lack the intellectual honesty to accept facts. By the way Dr Fauci said the other day "the country is doing everything possible to combat the virus.

'm down at the White House virtually every day with the Taskforce. I'm connected by phone throughout the day and into the night and when I say night, I'm talking twelve, one, two in the morning. I'm not the only one. There's a whole group of us that are doing that. It's every single day.

So I can't imagine that that under any circumstances that anybody could be doing more. I mean, obviously, we're fighting a formidable enemy -- this virus. This virus is a serious issue here.
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Bullseye said:
Didn't miss it because he never said it.
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Seriously?
You missed the whole business where Trump concerns of covid were an overblown hoax to make him look bad?

That's a way weird thing to miss.

There're some tweets and other words from Trump that are quite plain.

weird.


Bullseye said:
And . . . it will, eventually, which he also said.
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Viruses don't "just go away"

That's ignorant talk to confuse those willing to believe.

No virus has ever "just gone away.
Humans have intentionally eradicated viruses in our populations through effort.


Bullseye said:
Nope, I see it as someone (maybe you) swallowing the BS most of the media is serving as "news".
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I believe you do think that.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Seriously?
You missed the whole business where Trump concerns of covid were an overblown hoax to make him look bad?
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He was talking about the BS being peddled by MSM and the dems.

Simon W. Moon said:
That's a way weird thing to miss.

There're some tweets and other words from Trump that are quite plain.

weird.
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Yeah, he echoed a couple of erroneous things his advisors told him



Simon W. Moon said:
Viruses don't "just go away"

That's ignorant talk to confuse those willing to believe.

No virus has ever "just gone away.
Humans have intentionally eradicated viruses in our populations through effort.



I believe you do think that.
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Or, we build mass immunity and the virus is no longer detected.
 
Bullseye said:
He was talking about the BS being peddled by MSM and the dems.
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They were saying that covid was something we needed to act on posthaste.

Trump told us those concerns were a hoax.

The concerns about covid were justified.
And, unrelated to Trump.

Bullseye said:
Yeah, he echoed a couple of erroneous things his advisors told him
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Seems to be a long series of similar events
Somehow the errors are all on the same side of things.
hmmm

Trump is plagued by so many coincidences it's freaky.

Bullseye said:
Or, we build mass immunity and the virus is no longer detected.
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like with the common cold?

or like with the flu?

or like with chicken pox?

or like we did herpes?

or like we did with AIDS?

Or like we did with which virus?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
They were saying that covid was something we needed to act on posthaste.

Trump told us those concerns were a hoax.

The concerns about covid were justified.
And, unrelated to Trump.


Seems to be a long series of similar events
Somehow the errors are all on the same side of things.
hmmm

Trump is plagued by so many coincidences it's freaky.



like with the common cold?

or like with the flu?

or like with chicken pox?

or like we did herpes?

or like we did with AIDS?

Or like we did with which virus?
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LOL, Yeah, whatever. :roll:
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, Yeah, whatever. :roll:
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no rebuttal, huh?

Will you keep saying that viruses "just go away" "like magic"?

Or
Will you think about it then stop saying a thing you know ain't true?

cause, now you know.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
no rebuttal, huh?

Will you keep saying that viruses "just go away" "like magic"?

Or
Will you think about it then stop saying a thing you know ain't true?

cause, now you know.
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not interested in spending Saturday night arguing semantics. Thanks anyway.
 
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