Reparations for Slavery

ecofarm said:

Your grandparents went to college, provided a learned and safe environment and gave you money. They provided personal and business contacts, opened doors. Black people's grandparents were slaves. Not the same start.

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More factoids aka lies from Ecofam. Not one of my four grandparents went to college, provided any sort of environment for me, whether safe or not, or gave me money exceeding 1 shilling (about 1 US quarter at the time). Nor did they 'open any doors'. Why do you persist with your silly inventions, paraded before us as if they were facts?

Location, location, location

rickc said:

Reparations?

If reparations are paid then it should be to the Southerners who had their land stolen by yankee carpetbaggers. Give that land back to the rightful owners.

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Then pre-Europeans, the rightful owners would have been the Cherokee, Seminole, & lots of tribes/groupings of Native Peoples that have since been broken up? Or did the statute of limitations run out on them?

& the real problem with this alternative is that all the descendants of European-based colonials would have to cede essentially all the New World to the Native Peoples. There are practical difficulties with that option.

ecofarm said:

Your grandparents went to college, provided a learned and safe environment and gave you money. They provided personal and business contacts, opened doors. Black people's grandparents were slaves. Not the same start.

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True.. but the only problem with the reparations ideal is this.. MY white great grandparents both fought to END slavery... they put their lives on the line to end slavery.. and the government that won? The government that ended slavery.. is the government that won the civil war. Slavery was not a federal government institution. and it was ended by the government and ended by the sacrifices of those that supported that government.. folks like my great grandparents.

That's unlike say the internment of the Japanese.. which was done by the government and therefore they were paid reparations.

Fishking said:

What kind of weird alternate reality do you live in? The vast majority of people's grandparents didn't go to college. They went in worked in the fields, went off to fight wars, built skyscrapers in unsafe conditions, died in mines, and worked in the factories. That is the reality of most people, even the white ones. Your personal biases are showing.

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He seems to live in the real world... where while the vast majority didn't go to college.. those that did.. were predominantly white.. because they were allowed to go while by and large.. black people were not.

And those folks that didn't go to college? If they were white. they got better pay.. if they were white they went to better schools.. if they were white they even got special bathrooms.. better hospitals, etc... than a black person at that same time.

Not to mention.. they did not have to fear getting strung up in their military uniform because they dared to speak to a white girl...…

Listen.. reparations may not make sense... but lets not deny the reality of the racism and institution racism that was and in some ways still pervasive in this country.

rickc said:

Reparations?

If reparations are paid then it should be to the Southerners who had their land stolen by yankee carpetbaggers. Give that land back to the rightful owners.

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What a titanic load of crap.

jaeger19 said:

True.. but the only problem with the reparations ideal is this.. MY white great grandparents both fought to END slavery... they put their lives on the line to end slavery.. and the government that won? The government that ended slavery.. is the government that won the civil war. Slavery was not a federal government institution. and it was ended by the government and ended by the sacrifices of those that supported that government.. folks like my great grandparents.

That's unlike say the internment of the Japanese.. which was done by the government and therefore they were paid reparations.

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Excellent point. I don't support the idea of reparations, at least not in the form of monetary payments, but since slavery was a custom that benefited some states more than others, to the extent that those states tried to keep it going at all costs, then the country as a whole is not responsible, despite Spike Lee's confused rhetoric equating slavery with Native American "genocide."

Nemiroff said:

Lol. Except back then Democrats represented the conservative, rural, southern, religious voters.... you know, modern day republicans.

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You should stop drinking the koolaid and start educating yourself. All that stale tripe has been thoroughly debunked a hundred times. Racists southern Democrats would slit their wrists before voting Republican. Beyond that the most segregated cities are in the North. The Democrats have stuffed Blacks in big city ghettos while they rule from their lilly white suburban worlds. The only interest they have in the Blacks is their votes.

jaeger19 said:

True.. but the only problem with the reparations ideal is this.. MY white great grandparents both fought to END slavery... they put their lives on the line to end slavery.. and the government that won? The government that ended slavery.. is the government that won the civil war. Slavery was not a federal government institution. and it was ended by the government and ended by the sacrifices of those that supported that government.. folks like my great grandparents.

That's unlike say the internment of the Japanese.. which was done by the government and therefore they were paid reparations.

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It's stupid to think it's about blame or punishment. That completely misses the point, much to racists' joy.

Oborosen said:

Screw college. Most of these men didn't even finish the 6th grade in some cases and started working from the time they were 13. Life was not easy back then in the very least.

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Of course...I'm just highlighting the BS the other ecofarm was putting out there like all white people are some kind of silver-spooned trust fund babies.

jaeger19 said:

He seems to live in the real world... where while the vast majority didn't go to college.. those that did.. were predominantly white.. because they were allowed to go while by and large.. black people were not.

And those folks that didn't go to college? If they were white. they got better pay.. if they were white they went to better schools.. if they were white they even got special bathrooms.. better hospitals, etc... than a black person at that same time.

Not to mention.. they did not have to fear getting strung up in their military uniform because they dared to speak to a white girl...…

Listen.. reparations may not make sense... but lets not deny the reality of the racism and institution racism that was and in some ways still pervasive in this country.

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I most definitely don't deny that in the distant past, recent past, and in the present there are significant problems. I'm just pointing out that the narrative that ecofarm was pushing was false. Most people, including white people, were dirt poor, died in wars, and suffered along side of non-whites. By the time going to college became an institution that wasn't just for elites it turned into a debt racket that it is today and seems to be more of a hinderance for many people, more than a help.

But you're also correct that even poor whites didn't have to deal with various aspects of racism, like "looking at the wrong girl" and getting lynched for it. And that stuff wasn't very long ago at all.

Virgil Jones said:

I find it difficult to call people living on welfare "poverty" when such people are far wealthier than the middle class in most countries.

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The poor in America are not better off or even equal to the middle class in most Westernized countries... and in most third world countries there is not middle class.

A lot of good history and arguments in this thread. However, from a purely legal standpoint, you have to be able to show loss to qualify for compensation. No one alive today was ever a slave in America so they have no claim on this point. Secondly, no one can claim that Blacks in America are at a disadvantage to Blacks in Africa. So your ancestors being forced to come to America did not cause you any monetary loss. Many early Americans came to America as indentured servants which was little different than being a slave. They are in the same boat. Just because your ancestors were poor or disadvantaged does not give you a claim to retribution.

Some have claimed racism is a valid reason. However, how do you equate racism to being caused by slavery? The Italians, the Irish, Asians all have been targets of racism. It has nothing to do with slavery.

In truth, being drafted into the military is as close to slavery as anything that has existed in the US for a hundred and fifty years. As someone who went through this, you take a financial beating, you are forced to relocate, you are forced to eat garbage, you live like an animal, you live in a dump, you are forced to fight for your life, told what to wear, how to look, and many lost their lives. If anyone deserves compensation, I say it is the draftees.

Bodhisattva said:

The poor in America are not better off or even equal to the middle class in most Westernized countries... and in most third world countries there is not middle class.

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So what is your point?

My question went by without an answer. If you support reparations, does that mean you don't support inheritance taxes? You shouldn't get ahead because you were born with special benefits from previous generations, right?

Fishking said:

Of course...I'm just highlighting the BS the other ecofarm was putting out there like all white people are some kind of silver-spooned trust fund babies.

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It's ecofarm. Expect a few truck loads.

rickc said:

Reparations?

If reparations are paid then it should be to the Southerners who had their land stolen by yankee carpetbaggers. Give that land back to the rightful owners.

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The Cherokee?

Why do I suspect that you will not be happy with that solution?

The best Repatriation for "Black People" and "Poor and Working Poor White People" & "Minority Immigrants" is - Fixed Low Cost Access to State University Education !!!! $10K a year Flat Rate.

Option 2: Fixed Low Cost Access to Vocational or Technical Training Programs !!!! $2-4k a year for a 2 yr program. Upon Graduation and Gained Employment- "Black People" and "Poor and Working Poor White People" & "Minority Immigrants". (ANYONE wanting to go to Ivy League, pay for it themselves)

Why, because black people were enslaved for 100's of years and then cast into 100 yrs of segregation .... Poor and Working Poor White People.... were kept in a cycle of low wages that often were no more than what it cost to house and feed a slave, they also were kept knowing what side of the tracks to remain on. & Minority Immigrants were under paid and subjected to various forms of prejudicial exclusions, they also were kept knowing what side of the tracks to remain on.

There is no thought and no expectation that anyone will be getting a windfall cash payout....!!!!! many people, black, white and minority immigrants may likely in some cases squander that in no time, because without good education, people get lost into the material vanity and many other things.

The most priceless form of Repatriation those subjected to and left out of and marginalized is: _EDUCATION.... !!!!!!

These type of Repatriations will have to come with a "mandate" that those awarded will be mandated to "attend and complete the educational programs". there also is a Term Limit to such... which would be "18-25 yrs", which is equal to One Generation of People Living Today. No Age Limit on those in Affected Groups who attend.

Next is: Fixed Low Cost Access to Medical Care as in "UNIVERSAL MEDICARE" this includes Hospital, Doctor, Dentist and Prescription Medication !!!!
Fixed "Out of Pocket" Yearly Cost for Medical Care, Fixed "Out of Pocket" Yearly Cost for Dental and Fixed "Out of Pocket" Yearly Cost for Prescription.

Next is: All who are awarded have access to "Fixed Rate 3% Home Loans (Through HUD, Not Banks)- For A Home that Cannot Exceed the The Median Home Prices of U.S. Homes (They Must Have "Qualifying Income") ( Banks will not get to play games with the people Mortgages!!!) House Flipping NOT Allowed. It must be "owner occupied' !!!!

IF we consider these options... in 25 yrs.. we will have less people on Federal, State and County Aid Programs, We will have means to manage programs like Food Stamps and Other Programs. (Those programs won't be eliminated, because people do get sick and fall on hard time, companies close and people are temporary displaced and there are natural disaster that cause people to lose home and employment lively hood).

As to Medical Facilities they will have to post their cost publicly and they will have to develop uniformity in Medical Cost, Prescription Cost and Dental Cost.

Next is: Fixed Low Cost Access to Senior Care Facilities and Assisted Living, for those affected who need it. it is to be based on no more than 30%-50% of their Monthly Income as cost to live there and receive care. (No more of taking all their money and giving them something like $35 dollars a month for personal quality of life and basic items, or recreation of their choice). They should not be subjected to having lived their lives in impoverished and challenged conditions and at that late stage of life, be cast into another form of abject impoverished conditions.

In these 25 yrs...we can then eliminate systemic poverty and every American will be prepared for opportunity, Every person who has kids and will have kids will be better prepared to lead and direct their offspring's to be and become better civic, civil and economic stewards of their lives and they will have not excuse for not doing so.

Next is: Ensure that Civics Educations, Sociology, is A Mandatory Component of Education in all Educational Venues for the length of term anyone and everyone is in attendance, from grade school through the Post Graduate Degree Programs.


NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE... NOT EVEN WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE REPARATIONS OF SORTS TO MAKE MEANS FOR PEOPLE'S LIVES TO BE AND BECOME WHOLE.

Virgil Jones said:

Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and some other presidential candidate for president are calling for paying trillions of dollars in reparations to blacks, transgenders, gays and hispanics. I do not think this is a good idea. What do you think?

They are leaving East Asians out because America is so racist that the minority known as Asians have higher IQs and make more money on average than white people. Yet they are not a minority.

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Let's see now. Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist and yet even Bernie Sanders has come out against reparations. So, if Bernie is a socialist, and these people are further left than Bernie is, they must be even more socialist than Bernie. But, to answer your question, I am against retroactive reparations. What happened in history is history.

The U.S. government profited from slaves unjustly and owes them and their descendants a great debt. Slaves worked in brutal conditions without pay. Those unpaid wages at the very least are owed to their descendants. The fact no slaves are still alive is totally irrelevant to the existence of that debt and the intergenerational harms that resulted.

Virgil Jones said:

So what is your point?

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That the poor in the USA are not better off than middle class in other countries...

ecofarm said:

It's stupid to think it's about blame or punishment. That completely misses the point, much to racists' joy.

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When you take money from people based on their race-not what they did, nor what their grandparents or other ancestors did-and give it to others, based on their race, it is racist and unjust

Lakryte said:

The U.S. government profited from slaves unjustly and owes them and their descendants a great debt. Slaves worked in brutal conditions without pay. Those unpaid wages at the very least are owed to their descendants. The fact no slaves are still alive is totally irrelevant to the existence of that debt and the intergenerational harms that resulted.

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so who should pay for this-given most whites did not benefit from slavery and many of us have ancestors who fought against the confederacy.

TurtleDude said:

When you take money from people based on their race-not what they did, nor what their grandparents or other ancestors did-and give it to others, based on their race, it is racist and unjust

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The money is coming from all of society to help all of society. Stop with the white victim routine, and stop pretending that lifting up the disadvantaged does not improve society. But most of all, stop with the artificial racial divisions so that perhaps you can see the real divisions.

ecofarm said:

The money is coming from all of society to help all of society. Stop with the white victim routine, and stop pretending that lifting up the disadvantaged does not improve society. But most of all, stop with the artificial racial divisions so that perhaps you can see the real divisions.

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that's hilarious, because your entire premise is that a certain race=victims.

Why should whites who had nothing to do with slavery, have to pay others who have nothing to do with slavery>?

TurtleDude said:

that's hilarious, because your entire premise is that a certain race=victims.

Why should whites who had nothing to do with slavery, have to pay others who have nothing to do with slavery>?

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It's not about whites. I know, that's hard to imagine but this is not about whites. It's about all of society (not just white people, black people too) correcting for an historical injustice that still carries impacts today.

You make it a race thing, but that's not what it's about.