Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

Actually, it is not difficult at all to determine whether tax-cuts help the economy or whether tax-increases hurt the economy. The answer is there is no empirical evidence that tax-cuts boost the economy or tax increases (below confiscation rates above 80%) hurt the economy. There is a century of history and many economic studies. Yes, conservatives hold onto their belief as a religion. Why? Because it is self-serving the billionaires in conservative circles.

See:
Effects of Income Tax Changes on Economic Growth
Today’s GDP report—No evidence that the Trump tax cut is working or that the economy has clearly hit full employment
Tax Cuts Don't Pay For Themselves

We have gone through a mult-decade experiment in which we tested the theory that lowering taxes that already are below the optimal taxation rate increases revenue. The results of this experiment is clear, according to a 2012 report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, top marginal tax rates and economic growth have not appeared correlated over the past 60 years.

No matter, this zombie lie can be killed over and over and it will still get up and be repeated by conservative partisans who want tax-cuts. There is no reason to think that the Trump tax-cut will result in any measurable increase in economic growth and certainly not enough to offset the cut in revenue the cuts will create.

One can also see Reagan and Revenue.

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Coming from someone who doesn't know the components of GDP, your posts are expected and totally wrong. Reagan doubled GDP growth during his 8 year term. Trump's is up 2 trillion in 2 years without social spending increases and paying off Republican operatives like Obama did with Democratic support groups. Again, another big gov't nanny state liberal post of yours totally ignoring the foundation upon which this country was built and the concept of neighbor helping neighbor

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

His so called cheating on his wife was done prior to office and known by everyone. He ran against Hillary and 1 I chose wisely, 2 who did you vote for? 3 Your opinions noted as is my posting of actual data and facts which don't support your opinions. 4 That long list of problems you claim don't seem to have affected the majority in this country as GDP is up 2 trillion dollars in 2 years vs. 4.2 trillion by Obama including the 842 billion stimulus which was part of that GDP, 5 million jobs in two years, record charitable giving in two years, record state and local revenue in two years mostly in red states. Looks like a pretty good return on investment to me thus validating my vote.

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1. I don't think you chose wisely. You chose Trump.
2. Gary Johnson, the only real conservative running.
3. Everything I listed is backed up by data.
4. There, you're right. People think that, as long as the economy is purring along nicely, the POTUS is doing a great job. What they don't seem to realize is that the president has little control over the economy, and that Trump inherited a growing economy. The growth chart has been posted over and over, and shows a steady growth starting in the recession and continuing to today. You have put your finger on why people tend to overlook the many, many, glaring faults of the current administration.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Dittohead not! said:

1. I don't think you chose wisely. You chose Trump.
2. Gary Johnson, the only real conservative running.
3. Everything I listed is backed up by data.
4. There, you're right. People think that, as long as the economy is purring along nicely, the POTUS is doing a great job. What they don't seem to realize is that the president has little control over the economy, and that Trump inherited a growing economy. The growth chart has been posted over and over, and shows a steady growth starting in the recession and continuing to today. You have put your finger on why people tend to overlook the many, many, glaring faults of the current administration.

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Gary Johnson did have a snowball chance in hell of winning and you know it, dividing the voted between Johnson and Trump would have given us Hillary which is probably what you wanted after all.

You keep telling me that Trump inherited a growing economy yet never post any data supporting that claim. Sorry but the facts don't support what you are saying as growing to you means something different to most of us.

MTAtech said:

Actually, it is not difficult at all to determine whether tax-cuts help the economy or whether tax-increases hurt the economy. The answer is there is no empirical evidence that tax-cuts boost the economy or tax increases (below confiscation rates above 80%) hurt the economy. There is a century of history and many economic studies. Yes, conservatives hold onto their belief as a religion. Why? Because it is self-serving the billionaires in conservative circles.

See:
Effects of Income Tax Changes on Economic Growth
Today’s GDP report—No evidence that the Trump tax cut is working or that the economy has clearly hit full employment
Tax Cuts Don't Pay For Themselves

We have gone through a mult-decade experiment in which we tested the theory that lowering taxes that already are below the optimal taxation rate increases revenue. The results of this experiment is clear, according to a 2012 report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, top marginal tax rates and economic growth have not appeared correlated over the past 60 years.

No matter, this zombie lie can be killed over and over and it will still get up and be repeated by conservative partisans who want tax-cuts. There is no reason to think that the Trump tax-cut will result in any measurable increase in economic growth and certainly not enough to offset the cut in revenue the cuts will create.

One can also see Reagan and Revenue.

Click to expand...

Obama and democrats controlled the White House and both houses of Congress for two years and proved tax hikes could not stimulate the economy. Facts don't lie.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

Gary Johnson did have a snowball chance in hell of winning and you know it, dividing the voted between Johnson and Trump would have given us Hillary which is probably what you wanted after all.

You keep telling me that Trump inherited a growing economy yet never post any data supporting that claim. Sorry but the facts don't support what you are saying as growing to you means something different to most of us.

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Trump had a snowball's chance of winning California, so it didn't matter who I voted for for president. Therefore, I voted for the best candidate, whether or not he had a chance of winning. I sure as hell wasn't going to vote for Trump under any circumstances.

I'm pretty sure that the economic growth charts have already been posted here. if you can show that the economy wasn't growing until Trump took over, and that the president has some control over economic growth, I invite you to post it.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Dittohead not! said:

Trump had a snowball's chance of winning California, so it didn't matter who I voted for for president. Therefore, I voted for the best candidate, whether or not he had a chance of winning. I sure as hell wasn't going to vote for Trump under any circumstances.

I'm pretty sure that the economic growth charts have already been posted here. if you can show that the economy wasn't growing until Trump took over, and that the president has some control over economic growth, I invite you to post it.

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Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: July 27, 2018 - Next Release Date August 29, 2018

Line 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
Line
1 Gross domestic product -2.5 2.6 1.6 2.2 1.8 2.5 2.9 1.6

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Then first qtr 2017 was 1.2%, that a booming growing economy to you?

marke said:

Obama and democrats controlled the White House and both houses of Congress for two years and proved tax hikes could not stimulate the economy. Facts don't lie.

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Time for you to research ACTUAL history. The Dems did have the White House, after January 2009, but never had much of a legislative majority. The Dems didn't completely control the Senate. Al Franken was seated nearly eight months after winning his Senate seat. Even if the Senate was controlled by Democrats (e.g. 50 seats), the statement ignores two other facts. a) there were Democrats in the Senate that voted as if they were Republicans. b) Republicans liberally used the filibuster to block legislation.

The Dems never had 60 Senate seats post-2008. They had between 56 and 58 seats. For that very brief period they had 58 seats with consistent support from Bernie Sanders and inconsistent support from Joe Lieberman. The Democrats hardly had 60 Dem seats, and hardly 60 reliable Dem votes. Then in a special election the following January, Scott Brown won Teddy Kennedy’s old seat, and was sworn in on February 4th.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

Then first qtr 2017 was 1.2%, that a booming growing economy to you?

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Q1 2009 Latest forecast: 0.4 percent — March 13, 2019

The GDPNow model estimate for real GDP growth (seasonally adjusted annual rate) in the first quarter of 2019 is 0.4 percent on March 13, up from 0.2 percent on March 11. After reports on durable manufacturing and construction spending were released by the U.S. Census Bureau this morning, the nowcast of first-quarter real gross private domestic investment growth increased from -2.9 percent to -2.4 percent, and the nowcast of first-quarter real government expenditures growth increased from 1.7 percent to 2.5 percent.

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Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

Q1 2009 Latest forecast: 0.4 percent — March 13, 2019

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Consider the level of character and honesty of the person you've quoted:

Conservative said:

So no signs at all?

3% annual GDP growth for the first time since 2005, 4.5 million new jobs created not part-time jobs like Obama created, and people having more spendable income needing less so-called liberal help.

Looks to me like pretty darn good results

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:lamo

When called out on his false predictions, he shifts goalposts to nominal GDP and aggregate household survey numbers (which is a highlight of ignorance given population, inflation, and sheer economic growth reversal). When asked about the 3% prediction he has responds with nothing but excuses!!! It's all we can expect from this conman in the future.

MTAtech said:

Time for you to research ACTUAL history. The Dems did have the White House, after January 2009, but never had much of a legislative majority. The Dems didn't completely control the Senate. Al Franken was seated nearly eight months after winning his Senate seat. Even if the Senate was controlled by Democrats (e.g. 50 seats), the statement ignores two other facts. a) there were Democrats in the Senate that voted as if they were Republicans. b) Republicans liberally used the filibuster to block legislation.

The Dems never had 60 Senate seats post-2008. They had between 56 and 58 seats. For that very brief period they had 58 seats with consistent support from Bernie Sanders and inconsistent support from Joe Lieberman. The Democrats hardly had 60 Dem seats, and hardly 60 reliable Dem votes. Then in a special election the following January, Scott Brown won Teddy Kennedy’s old seat, and was sworn in on February 4th.

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So all the past talk about taxing the rich came to nothing after all? Not surprising. Trump, on the other hand, intends to keep his campaign promises because he was serious when he made them, unlike politicians who just talk to get elected and have no intention of doing what they said they would do.

marke said:

So all the past talk about taxing the rich came to nothing after all? Not surprising. Trump, on the other hand, intends to keep his campaign promises because he was serious when he made them, unlike politicians who just talk to get elected and have no intention of doing what they said they would do.

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You could have answered your own question with a simple google search. Yes, Obama raised taxes on the rich -- and guess what? The rich didn't go Galt.

The very interesting thing that happened when Obama raised rich people’s taxes

MTAtech said:

You could have answered your own question with a simple google search. Yes, Obama raised taxes on the rich -- and guess what? The rich didn't go Galt.

The very interesting thing that happened when Obama raised rich people’s taxes

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How much increase did Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates pay when Obama raised their taxes and did Obama solve the national debt crisis by jacking up those rates? Obama presided over the doubling of the national debt in his 8 years. That just means that raising the taxes on the rich did nothing to get us out of debt.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

Q1 2009 Latest forecast: 0.4 percent — March 13, 2019

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Got to love those forecasts, why is it that the American people have to fail for you to post your pretty charts and graphs that make you feel better about supporting a liberal economic policy. Did anyone predict 300,000 jobs in December or January?

Intellectual dishonesty resonates with people like you who are totally clueless about the role of the federal gov't and the reality that the American people are benefiting from the Trump economy as the latest polls on the economy show but never mind any positive news, let's focus on the negatives so that we can make more people dependent on the federal gov't thus keeping people like you happy and probably employed.

Just like a typical liberal throwing more money at the bureaucrats who waste it and helped create the 22 trillion dollar debt. States and local governments predominantly red states had record revenues last year, charitable giving set records, 5 million jobs have been created in 2 years, and 2 trillion added to the GDP, that works for me and validates my vote for Trump.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

Q1 2009 Latest forecast: 0.4 percent — March 13, 2019

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I know this is a foreign concept for you to understand but weather played a major role in the first quarter of 2019 but that doesn't stop you from promoting higher taxes on the rich who you believe will fund your liberal spending appetite. Impossible but keep believing that and keep losing national elections.

Why would anyone support giving more money to the federal bureaucrats who created the 22 trillion dollar debt? States and local governments are prospering with this economic policy and that works for me and the American people

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Keep spending all your time in this forum reading what other liberals are posting and ignoring what is going on in the country. The silent majority exists and is working not wasting time in a forum that spends 24/7 promoting liberal economic policies and bashing Trump 24/7

marke said:

How much increase did Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates pay when Obama raised their taxes and did Obama solve the national debt crisis by jacking up those rates? Obama presided over the doubling of the national debt in his 8 years. That just means that raising the taxes on the rich did nothing to get us out of debt.

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Since neither Mr. Gates nor Mr. Bezos share their tax returns with me, I can't answer that specific question.

However, a report from the Congressional Budget Office, tracked how incomes and taxes had evolved for different parts of the income distribution from 1979 to 2013. And one thing it suggests is that Obama's tax policies have led to a very significant increase in taxes for the richest 1%:



With respect to debt, the federal deficit dropped by 75% under Obama.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

Got to love those forecasts, why is it that the American people have to fail for you to post your pretty charts and graphs that make you feel better about supporting a liberal economic policy. Did anyone predict 300,000 jobs in December or January?

Intellectual dishonesty resonates with people like you who are totally clueless about the role of the federal gov't and the reality that the American people are benefiting from the Trump economy as the latest polls on the economy show but never mind any positive news, let's focus on the negatives so that we can make more people dependent on the federal gov't thus keeping people like you happy and probably employed.

Just like a typical liberal throwing more money at the bureaucrats who waste it and helped create the 22 trillion dollar debt. States and local governments predominantly red states had record revenues last year, charitable giving set records, 5 million jobs have been created in 2 years, and 2 trillion added to the GDP, that works for me and validates my vote for Trump.

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Yeah, that radical left-wing at the Fed inventing predictions just to make you look bad. These aren't my figures. They were derived by the experts at the Federal Reserve of Atlanta. If you don't like their numbers, take your complaint to them.

Moreover, the numbers are what they are. Reality drives the forecast, not the other way around. You're like a patient suffering from a fever who wants to dip the thermometer in ice-water, to fool himself into thinking he doesn't have a fever.

The overall problem is that you are invested in numbers that make Trump look good, regardless of what objective data says.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

Yeah, that radical left-wing at the Fed inventing predictions just to make you look bad. These aren't my figures. They were derived by the experts at the Federal Reserve of Atlanta. If you don't like their numbers, take your complaint to them.

Moreover, the numbers are what they are. Reality drives the forecast, not the other way around. You're like a patient suffering from a fever who wants to dip the thermometer in ice-water, to fool himself into thinking he doesn't have a fever.

The overall problem is that you are invested in numbers that make Trump look good, regardless of what objective data says.

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No, the predictions are just that, a PREDICTION and one quarter doesn't a year make especially with the record cold hitting this country in January and February. Invested in numbers that make Trump look good? How about numbers that make Americans feel and look good with actual dollars in their bank account?

Reality is the American people approve of the job Trump is doing on the economy as do I. Trump's personality is despicable but the alternative that your party offers is much worse. Abortion on demand, Medicare for All, class envy, jealousy, and class warfare, massive central gov't, spending more money in the name of compassion taking it away from the states. That is what your party offers and I will stick with the despicable rhetoric and personality of Trump as it is more important to me to see results vs. listening to rhetoric

It is great to see a President in the WH who doesn't smoke, doesn't drink and is trying to keep his campaign promises. You on the other hand respond to rhetoric and have to like someone for your support. It truly is sad how much hatred there is for a person generating these kind of results and so much ignorance on your part as to the role of the federal gov't.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

I know this is a foreign concept for you to understand but weather played a major role in the first quarter of 2019 but that doesn't stop you from promoting higher taxes on the rich who you believe will fund your liberal spending appetite. Impossible but keep believing that and keep losing national elections.

Why would anyone support giving more money to the federal bureaucrats who created the 22 trillion dollar debt? States and local governments are prospering with this economic policy and that works for me and the American people

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Keep spending all your time in this forum reading what other liberals are posting and ignoring what is going on in the country. The silent majority exists and is working not wasting time in a forum that spends 24/7 promoting liberal economic policies and bashing Trump 24/7

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So, your excuse is that the forecast for Q1 2019 of 0.4% was the weather? You mean the weather was so bad that it dropped quarterly GDP to the lowest point since Q4 2015?

Also, please stay on topic. We're discussing GDP numbers and national debt of $22 trillion. So, stop devolving into your bureaucrats giving money to Those People diatribe.

The point I have been making since 2017, that you reject, is that there hasn't been any enormous increase in GDP under Trump. It's essentially the same as under Obama. Moreover, the tax-cuts that were supposed to boost everything from investment to high wages, ended up being a dud.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

No, the predictions are just that, a PREDICTION and one quarter doesn't a year make especially with the record cold hitting this country in January and February. Invested in numbers that make Trump look good? How about numbers that make Americans feel and look good with actual dollars in their bank account?

Reality is the American people approve of the job Trump is doing on the economy as do I. Trump's personality is despicable but the alternative that your party offers is much worse. Abortion on demand, Medicare for All, class envy, jealousy, and class warfare, massive central gov't, spending more money in the name of compassion taking it away from the states. That is what your party offers and I will stick with the despicable rhetoric and personality of Trump as it is more important to me to see results vs. listening to rhetoric

It is great to see a President in the WH who doesn't smoke, doesn't drink and is trying to keep his campaign promises. You on the other hand respond to rhetoric and have to like someone for your support. It truly is sad how much hatred there is for a person generating these kind of results and so much ignorance on your part as to the role of the federal gov't.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

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I'm only going to address the portion above in bold.

Trump has the lowest approval rating of any modern president. It's 42.6 approve, 53.9% disapprove.
Regarding Trump's Job Approval -on the Economy, of 52.0/43.8, Obama (who you hate) had a 57.0% approval, 39.0% disapproval rating on the economy.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

So, your excuse is that the forecast for Q1 2019 of 0.4% was the weather? You mean the weather was so bad that it dropped quarterly GDP to the lowest point since Q4 2015?

Also, please stay on topic. We're discussing GDP numbers and national debt of $22 trillion. So, stop devolving into your bureaucrats giving money to Those People diatribe.

The point I have been making since 2017, that you reject, is that there hasn't been any enormous increase in GDP under Trump. It's essentially the same as under Obama. Moreover, the tax-cuts that were supposed to boost everything from investment to high wages, ended up being a dud.

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Weather is one factor, but so was the shutdown and as stated one quarter doesn't a year make. Why is it so important for Trump's economy to fail for you? What is your alternative, taxing the rich? more federal spending? Regardless of your claim that there hasn't been a significant GDP growth even though the dollars show that to be the case, why does it matter to you when states and local governments are prospering, people have more spendable income, and charities are thriving?

Tax cuts did indeed boost consumer spending as evidenced by the Excise taxes, sales and property taxes, FICA revenue but by all means let's let D.C. keep more of what you earn. Why don't you do your part, have your entire income check sent to the IRS and ask them to send back to you what they THINK you need?

Interesting how only poll numbers that are negative are supported by you, how about these?


RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

I'm only going to address the portion above in bold.

Trump has the lowest approval rating of any modern president. It's 42.6 approve, 53.9% disapprove.
Regarding Trump's Job Approval -on the Economy, of 52.0/43.8, Obama (who you hate) had a 57.0% approval, 39.0% disapproval rating on the economy.

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Obama was in office 8 years, what was his approval rating in his first two years with a Democratic Congress, TARP, no budget, and a stimulus?

Stunning loyalty to a failed President because of simple hatred of Trump's personality and total ignorance of economic policies

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

Then first qtr 2017 was 1.2%, that a booming growing economy to you?

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One day does not make a growing economy, or any other sort of economy, and the president can't magically change the economy on the day he's inaugurated or even thereafter.

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Dittohead not! said:

One day does not make a growing economy, or any other sort of economy, and the president can't magically change the economy on the day he's inaugurated or even thereafter.

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Never ran a business did you? Attitude and focus are what I did when planning for business growth and development. Businesses when Trump took office knew they weren't going to be punished for success .There is a reason the stock market jumped after the election of Trump and why it is at 25 k today

Have yet to see anything here but Trump bashing with no solutions proposed that would keep the economy going, state and local coffers improving, charities gaining more contributions. Are there anything negative in the Democratic Economic plans to address the deficit and debt?

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

MTAtech said:

I'm only going to address the portion above in bold.

Trump has the lowest approval rating of any modern president. It's 42.6 approve, 53.9% disapprove.
Regarding Trump's Job Approval -on the Economy, of 52.0/43.8, Obama (who you hate) had a 57.0% approval, 39.0% disapproval rating on the economy.

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How much of those polling numbers reflect personality rather than results? What is your alternative to Trump as I have seen you do nothing but attack him and promote negativity. You believe that negativity is what the Americans want? They may indeed not like Trump like me but look at the alternative and see that personality doesn't trump results

Lay out for me the Democratic Platform and how that benefits the American people? Investigations, higher taxes on the rich, Medicare for all, anything else?

Re: National Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Conservative said:

Why would I read what fools say vs. what a federal mandate is? Waiting for the list of Democratic Congressional leaders who voted against those mandates and now are fighting to repeal them? Post 898

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For one thing a lot of these MANDATES were past into law YEARS ago.
and a lot of the people that were in office at that time are now dead.
and to answer your question the only person on here that is a fool and keeps making a fool of themselves are YOU
IF you had done some research and had read what I posted you would have known that most programs for the poor and people living just above and below the poverty level are Federal government mandates and fall under welfare and seeing they are Federally mandated programs they have to be paid for by the Federal Government before any money up and beyond them goes back to the states.
YOU are the one that keeps saying the states should take over these programs and if they did you can bet in the Red states they would be cut to the bone and the people on them in those states would go to other states that still provide them.
Just like they did back in the 50's before the Federal government steeped in and made it mantatory for all states to have a min. amount of welfare for their people.
Again I have to ask you and you have still NOT answered this question
WHY do you thing the larger Blue states should keep funding the smaller Red states?
Why shouldn't any Federal monies left over after these MANDATED programs are paid for go beck to the states on an equal per person basis?
Why do the smaller states get more back then the larger states do? and can use that money to fund their state Governments ?
IF the smaller states got back an equal amount per person they would have to raise their state taxes and the larger states could lower theirs.
Have a nice day