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Alan Dershowitz on he senate floor within the last hour.

vesper said:
I wouldn't call it a "show". In fact I believe his argument was a stellar argument in the sense of a true Classical Liberal in his views of the Constitution. And I think it caused senators especially Democrats to pause and gravel on how far they have strayed.
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"When a man unprincipled in private life[,] desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper . . . despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"

- Hamilton
 
Hypothetical said:
if he has the power to do that, he very well could do so, if he thought it a wise move. as far as I understand it, the President does set foreign policy.

if he did though he would face the consequences at the voting poll , as the founders intended.

but he would not do that.
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Well, that is the real core issue.

Trump sees himself as a king, and is set on making the US Senate bow down before him (and surrender much of its power in the process).

Now that you are arguing that a President is a king who can offer to sell his office to whatever foreign ruler cares to buy, or otherwise get him the office.

That’s what you just said.

You justified collusion.
 
vesper said:
I wouldn't call it a "show". In fact I believe his argument was a stellar argument in the sense of a true Classical Liberal in his views of the Constitution. And I think it caused senators especially Democrats to pause and discern on how far they have strayed.
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YES. I saw the same Dershowitz you saw. We are in full agreement. And he said he is not in favor of Trump. But is not in favor of this Shifty dog and pony show either.

Alan is a mans type of Democrat. He votes for them all the time. But this time he will not stand up to defend what Democrats are trying to do wrong. Not now.
 
TomFitz said:
Well, that is the real core issue.

Trump sees himself as a king, and is set on making the US Senate bow down before him (and surrender much of its power in the process).

Now that you are arguing that a President is a king who can offer to sell his office to whatever foreign ruler cares to buy, or otherwise get him the office.

That’s what you just said.

You justified collusion.
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Why were you not hostile to Obama when he actually committed impeachable offenses? And Biden ..;. how can you support that criminal?
 
Robertinfremont said:
First, it was Obama (per Derschowitz) who made a deal like that with Russia. Was he impeached? Would you believe he should be impeached?
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That was such a pathetic attempt at false equivelency. Even Dershowitz is a clown playing for an audience of one (and so he’ll keep his Fox gig).

And then there was Pam Bondi.

You know it’s a clown show when one of the clown’s performers is a woman took a $25,000 payoff from Trump (through his Foundation (slush fund)), to make Trump U cases in Florida go away.

And that’s your defense attorney!!!!!
 
ecofarm said:
"When a man unprincipled in private life[,] desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper . . . despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"

- Hamilton
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:applaud:applaud:applaud

Dershowitz kinda ignored that didn't he.

He used his time to try to get people to believe not only did he know what the founders thought (regardless of their writings) and explaining why they were wrong and he was right...
 
ecofarm said:
"When a man unprincipled in private life[,] desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper . . . despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"

- Hamilton
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Why do so many Democrats either misquote this man or use his actual quotes for what? He died in a duel. Why honor a person who went to kill a man but died himself?
 
GDViking said:
:applaud:applaud:applaud

Dershowitz kinda ignored that didn't he.

He used his time to try to get people to believe not only did he know what the founders thought (regardless of their writings) and explaining why they were wrong and he was right...
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You did not see him. He did not operate like that at all.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Why do so many Democrats either misquote this man or use his actual quotes for what? He died in a duel. Why honor a person who went to kill a man but died himself?
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What kind of argument is that? :lamo
 
vesper said:
You watched one hour? What a sacrifice on your part. :mrgreen:

You missed a fantastic presentation and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that tonight some Democratic Senators left the chamber with a lot to think about. I thought all the presenters did a fantastic job. Lots of focus on the history of impeachment. The team was able to dissect the House managers two impeachment articles to be unconstitutional. It ended with Dershowitz who was on his A game and in his presentation he took every person in the chamber back to law school. He and Starr both did a great job on history and true intent of the Founders. Oh well your loss.
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Wow. I wonder how he'll defend the actions of Prince Andrew?
 
Geoist said:
What kind of argument is that? :lamo
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I am pointing out some flaws in the beloved Hamilton.

What amuses me is Democrats only use part of what Hamilton was speaking of. The rest of his comments they toss in the trash.
 
TomFitz said:
Well, that is the real core issue.

Trump sees himself as a king, and is set on making the US Senate bow down before him (and surrender much of its power in the process).

Now that you are arguing that a President is a king who can offer to sell his office to whatever foreign ruler cares to buy, or otherwise get him the office.

That’s what you just said.

You justified collusion.
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no I didn't. first of all i did not use arbitrary states of mind such as "Trump sees himself as a king", which can not be proven.

secondly, It has nothing to do with the president being a king, but he does have a lot of power, as defined by the constitution... foreign policy being one of the areas he holds sway over.

thirdly, it speaks directly to what constitutes "high crimes and misdemeanors", as laid out by the constitution and does NOT include anything the democrats can think up.
 
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ecofarm said:
"When a man unprincipled in private life[,] desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper . . . despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"

- Hamilton
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If you are going to quote a Founder, the very least you could do is quote him in context and completely.

“Those then, who resist a confirmation of public order, are the true Artificers of monarchy—not that this is the intention of the generality of them. Yet it would not be difficult to lay the finger upon some of their party who may justly be suspected. When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may “ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.”

― Alexander Hamilton

Furthermore, that quote does not describe Dershowitz.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Why do so many Democrats either misquote this man or use his actual quotes for what? He died in a duel. Why honor a person who went to kill a man but died himself?
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What a stupid ****ing statement, both men were there willing to live or die.

I would happily meet Donald Trump on the front lawn of the Whitehouse using the same weapons borrowed from the Smithsonian..

Do you think he would show up for such an actual act of honor???
 
Robertinfremont said:
Why were you not hostile to Obama when he actually committed impeachable offenses? And Biden ..;. how can you support that criminal?
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I’m not going to play your idiotic game.

Dershowitz was full of bs.

The comparison was only intended to get Obama’s name in the record so all the bobble heads in front of Fox could bob in unison.
 
GDViking said:
What a stupid ****ing statement, both men were there willing to live or die.

I would happily meet Donald Trump on the front lawn of the Whitehouse using the same weapons borrowed from the Smithsonian..

Do you think he would show up for such an actual act of honor???
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Donald Trump is a coward. A little bully with a child’s mind.
 
Hypothetical said:
not exact wording but definitely the proper meaning of his statements. I am doing this from memory:
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Dershowitz is a tool, but he's right about this impeachment jazz.
 
Robertinfremont said:
You did not see him. He did not operate like that at all.
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I watched every minute...

It was like listening to a lawyer cherry picking to make a point he was not completely sold on, however this was the side that hired him so he had to do what he could.

Wanna bet if Democrats were paying him his testimony would have been much different?

And by the way, the shoe on the other foot argument is from " to kill a mockingbird"...
 
Robertinfremont said:
YES. I saw the same Dershowitz you saw. We are in full agreement. And he said he is not in favor of Trump. But is not in favor of this Shifty dog and pony show either.

Alan is a mans type of Democrat. He votes for them all the time. But this time he will not stand up to defend what Democrats are trying to do wrong. Not now.
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He made that perfectly clear that he is a Democrat and voted for Hillary Clinton. But he laid out the case that when viewing the Constitution, one must be impartial. And he went on to say to not to do so threatens it.
 
Robertinfremont said:
I am pointing out some flaws in the beloved Hamilton.
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Dying in a duel has nothing to do with the relevance of the quote.


What amuses me is Democrats only use part of what Hamilton was speaking of. The rest of his comments they toss in the trash.
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Everyone nitpicks quotes. Not just Democrats. Conservatives love them some Winston Churchill and William F. Buckley. Never seen a single one of them quote them on their support for the land value tax.
 
Hypothetical said:
not exact wording but definitely the proper meaning of his statements. I am doing this from memory:
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Smart guy for sure and hard to discount his explanation of the Constitution. Democrats just don't have the legal minds working for them that Trump does.
 
GDViking said:
Wanna bet if Democrats were paying him his testimony would have been much different?
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He probably wouldn't have been contradicting his younger self.
 
TomFitz said:
Donald Trump is a coward. A little bully with a child’s mind.
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I doubt very much he can shoot or even know what a flintlock, Minny ball, black powder or Flint.

I would like my chances In such an encounter...

I would be happy with colts, ARs, throwing knives, nun chucks, duplicates of the shotgun Dick Cheney shot his friend with...

I am making the challenge (and just to be clear this is not a threat of any sort unless he accepts) just giving him his choice of weapon.

Now if he chooses sumo wrestling I will be at a disadvantage...

However my point is Hamilton was honorable, trump is not...
 
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