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Independents souring on impeachment

Oborosen said:
Corruption would have to be proven first, or is that fact always going to be lost on people like you?
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It’s right before your very eyes. You just refuse to see it.
 
Obscurity said:
Trump withheld foreign aid and dangled official acts for a smear campaign against Joe Biden.

You know it and so do I.

He didn't even have to open official investigations, just go on CNN and announce they were opening them.

Anyone who isn't a Trump Supremacist can see this as plain as day and won't angle shoot to try and claim Trump had some motive as yet undiscovered.
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Yet so far every witness that testified said the opposite. You would know this is you paid attention instead of regurgitating left news headlines.
 
Carleen said:
It’s right before your very eyes. You just refuse to see it.
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No it is in witness testimony when they say I have no evidence of bribery or extortion.

I have no evidence of quid pro quo.
I have no evidence of any wrong doing by the president.

Which is pretty much what every witness said.
So it is right before your eyes you refuse to see it.
 
ludin said:
Yet so far every witness that testified said the opposite. You would know this is you paid attention instead of regurgitating left news headlines.
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If you had watched the hearings and not listened to the selective chosen bits on fox News, you'd feel the same way I do.

As it stands, fox news has you people convinced. I've tracked their headlines during this hearing. It's absurd, and it's preposterous, how misleading they are.
 
ludin said:
No it is in witness testimony when they say I have no evidence of bribery or extortion.

I have no evidence of quid pro quo.
I have no evidence of any wrong doing by the president.

Which is pretty much what every witness said.
So it is right before your eyes you refuse to see it.
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Yes, you do refuse to see it. Fox news runs headlines that are totally fictitious to support a completely alternative reality. Do you understand what allowing Trump to do this will mean for the future?
 
Obscurity said:
If you had watched the hearings and not listened to the selective chosen bits on fox News, you'd feel the same way I do.

As it stands, fox news has you people convinced. I've tracked their headlines during this hearing. It's absurd, and it's preposterous, how misleading they are.
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Anyone who watched the hearings, with the exception of those with incurable cases of TDS, understands that Fox News got it right.

The polls show clearly that the American people didn't buy into the Schiff farce.
 
I am honestly one of those independents so sick of seeing the Dems spend all their time and energy 24/7 attacking the president and yelling gotcha!!! We get it, he's got major flaws, but this so very much reminds me of my 6 year old and 10 year old sons running around screaming "I win, you lose!!!" at each other, then they get mad and both come make up something to tattle about

They actually shouted victory after the Sondland retraction of his entire testimony or over the Mueller report or "there are very fine people"(period) His presidency has been at the beginning of the end for 3 years now and we are sick of this(period)

It's hard to think they are a better option when we can't even trust what they tell us he did wrong
 
Helix said:
I'm not desperate.
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If it sounds like a desperate duck, looks like a desperate duck, and walks like one as well...

You're pretty much one of the main poster children of desperation at this point. Because you typically can't go two post without calling someone a cultist... while simultantiously lacking an actual point, or meaning for the topic.
 
Obscurity said:
Trump withheld foreign aid and dangled official acts for a smear campaign against Joe Biden.

You know it and so do I.

He didn't even have to open official investigations, just go on CNN and announce they were opening them.

Anyone who isn't a Trump Supremacist can see this as plain as day and won't angle shoot to try and claim Trump had some motive as yet undiscovered.
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I know he's not been proven to have done as such. Because we're all seeing the same testimonies.
 
Oborosen said:
If it sounds like a desperate duck, looks like a desperate duck, and walks like one as well...

You're pretty much one of the main poster children of desperation at this point. Because you typically can't go two post without calling someone a cultist... while simultantiously lacking an actual point, or meaning for the topic.
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Refer to the post you quoted. If you are still confused, refer to it again.
 
Carleen said:
It’s right before your very eyes. You just refuse to see it.
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You know what happened to the boy who cried wolf right?

Just so you know, we're well past the point of not even attempting to believe these same, exact lies.

Then again, I could just ask for this proof and listen to the lot of you bitch at me for another month. Without supply such proof at all.

It's the usual response I get from your side at this point anyway.
 
Helix said:
Welp, that's the ballgame, folks. I guess that we should just drop the whole thing and let presidents commit extortion and bribery at will with no consequences. Who wants to call Pelosi and give her the bad news?

Not it
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Recent presidents have done far more than commit extortion and bribery with no consequences.

Don't the congresscritters have anything better to do?

We passed the tipping point for crimes committed by presidents quite some time ago, and the world is still turning. Washington DC is the quintessential Gangsta's Paradise, and has been.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Recent presidents have done far more than commit extortion and bribery with no consequences.

Don't the congresscritters have anything better to do?

We passed the tipping point for crimes committed by presidents quite some time ago, and the world is still turning. Washington DC is the quintessential Gangsta's Paradise, and has been.
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I understand that you are ok with extortion and bribery. I'm not.
 
Helix said:
I understand that you are ok with extortion and bribery. I'm not.
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I'm not really OK with it, just as I'm not OK with taking the country to war under fraud or legislative assaults on the US Constitution.

It's just a fact of life, part of the human condition.

My and your objections mean precious little in the big picture. I've known that for 50 years or more. Still, I bitch and complain. :)
 
Thoreau72 said:
I'm not really OK with it, just as I'm not OK with taking the country to war under fraud or legislative assaults on the US Constitution.

It's just a fact of life, part of the human condition.

My and your objections mean precious little in the big picture. I've known that for 50 years or more. Still, I bitch and complain. :)
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I doubt that we're going to war. If so, the country will most likely fall regardless of who wins. However, a president is not above the law, and bribery is an impeachable offense, as is obstruction of justice.
 
Keridan said:
I am honestly one of those independents so sick of seeing the Dems spend all their time and energy 24/7 attacking the president and yelling gotcha!!! We get it, he's got major flaws, but this so very much reminds me of my 6 year old and 10 year old sons running around screaming "I win, you lose!!!" at each other, then they get mad and both come make up something to tattle about

They actually shouted victory after the Sondland retraction of his entire testimony or over the Mueller report or "there are very fine people"(period) His presidency has been at the beginning of the end for 3 years now and we are sick of this(period)

It's hard to think they are a better option when we can't even trust what they tell us he did wrong
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that is a damn good point. that really smacks of their desperation to get rid of him that they try to force feed a victory like that.
 
Helix said:
I doubt that we're going to war. If so, the country will most likely fall regardless of who wins. However, a president is not above the law, and bribery is an impeachable offense, as is obstruction of justice.
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news Helix, but we HAVE BEEN at war since 2003. Under fraud, by way of the fraudulent AUMF. Wake up and smell the depleted uranium and the cinders of the US Constitution. It probably smells somewhat like the napalm we used in Vietnam.
 
Grim17 said:
Anyone who watched the hearings, with the exception of those with incurable cases of TDS, understands that Fox News got it right.

The polls show clearly that the American people didn't buy into the Schiff farce.
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The polls still show a majority support impeach and remove. The aggregate will be updated tomorrow; however, it's irrelevant.

Fox news gets nothing right. It's a scumdog propaganda network. It's so biased it's insane.

There is evidence to show Nunes met Shoken.

The entire investigation is now tainted by the fact republicans IN CONGRESS spent OUR TAX DOLLARS brown nosing potus and going to Vienna with an indicted criminal for smears against rivals.

The whole thing is a gigantic mess, and only a fox news puppet would sit here and make the pathetic commentary you're making.
 
Keridan said:
I am honestly one of those independents so sick of seeing the Dems spend all their time and energy 24/7 attacking the president and yelling gotcha!!! We get it, he's got major flaws, but this so very much reminds me of my 6 year old and 10 year old sons running around screaming "I win, you lose!!!" at each other, then they get mad and both come make up something to tattle about

They actually shouted victory after the Sondland retraction of his entire testimony or over the Mueller report or "there are very fine people"(period) His presidency has been at the beginning of the end for 3 years now and we are sick of this(period)

It's hard to think they are a better option when we can't even trust what they tell us he did wrong
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Then you will be one of those "independents" (Libertarian gives it away that you lean right, so please, don't even claim you're Independent) who will enable future presidents to endlessly precondition aid on political errands.

And you will rue the day you support this with your snide, high nosed "Independent" proclamations.
 
Obscurity said:
The polls still show a majority support impeach and remove. The aggregate will be updated tomorrow; however, it's irrelevant.

Fox news gets nothing right. It's a scumdog propaganda network. It's so biased it's insane.

There is evidence to show Nunes met Shoken.

The entire investigation is now tainted by the fact republicans IN CONGRESS spent OUR TAX DOLLARS brown nosing potus and going to Vienna with an indicted criminal for smears against rivals.

The whole thing is a gigantic mess, and only a fox news puppet would sit here and make the pathetic commentary you're making.
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What was the only network that got the Russia collusion investigation right?

LMAO.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news Helix, but we HAVE BEEN at war since 2003. Under fraud, by way of the fraudulent AUMF. Wake up and smell the depleted uranium and the cinders of the US Constitution. It probably smells somewhat like the napalm we used in Vietnam.
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I meant civil war between Tweetycult and the rest of us if they throw a tantrum.
 
Grim17 said:
What was the only network that got the Russia collusion investigation right?

LMAO.
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What does that have to do with anything? Fox is peddling a debunked conspiracy about crowdstrike at Trump's behest, and they can't cover impeachment correctly at all.

As far as "collusion" is concerned, I couldn't care less. I never believed Trump was intelligent enough to collude, because he operates like a mob boss.

Let's look at his character.

We know he is vindictive, and has withheld funding to US States if those states do not kow tow to him - California.
We know he demands loyalty to himself, not to the united states - Bolton, Kelly, Tillerson.
We know he is not good on messaging unless he has a face to smear - Clinton, Cruz, Bush - Now Biden. Further evidence is his inability to actually defend himself against the WB report, because the WB is faceless, and thus, Trump cannot smear them.
We know he has a history of stiffing people on payments - dozens of contractors, and more recently, cities that he refuses to pay for holding his rallies.

Lev Parnas has given congress tapes. Do you think those tapes are exculpatory? Do you think they help the president? Do you think, given his past behaviors, this is the ONE TIME he acts ethically, or without regard to how he has acted for decades?

We can play Occam's Razor, too, if you'd like. Fox news is a propaganda network. It is state media. Trump is pardoning war criminals on the direction of Fox News. If Fox News started saying we should have single payer, Trump would do it.
 
Obscurity said:
What does that have to do with anything? Fox is peddling a debunked conspiracy about crowdstrike at Trump's behest, and they can't cover impeachment correctly at all.

As far as "collusion" is concerned, I couldn't care less. I never believed Trump was intelligent enough to collude, because he operates like a mob boss.

Let's look at his character.

We know he is vindictive, and has withheld funding to US States if those states do not kow tow to him - California.
We know he demands loyalty to himself, not to the united states - Bolton, Kelly, Tillerson.
We know he is not good on messaging unless he has a face to smear - Clinton, Cruz, Bush - Now Biden. Further evidence is his inability to actually defend himself against the WB report, because the WB is faceless, and thus, Trump cannot smear them.
We know he has a history of stiffing people on payments - dozens of contractors, and more recently, cities that he refuses to pay for holding his rallies.

Lev Parnas has given congress tapes. Do you think those tapes are exculpatory? Do you think they help the president? Do you think, given his past behaviors, this is the ONE TIME he acts ethically, or without regard to how he has acted for decades?

We can play Occam's Razor, too, if you'd like. Fox news is a propaganda network. It is state media. Trump is pardoning war criminals on the direction of Fox News. If Fox News started saying we should have single payer, Trump would do it.
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Here's an example of Fox News reporting the truth, and at exactly the same time, CBS misleading it's viewers with a phony headline:

mediaLies_hearing.jpg
 
Helix said:
I meant civil war between Tweetycult and the rest of us if they throw a tantrum.
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If Trump is thrown out of office I have ZERO faith the Trumpers will not begin a civil war.

That, in and of itself, is dangerous enough to mean the senate must remove him.

Can you imagine if Obama did a rambling interview for an hour like Obama did on F&F yesterday? The Repubs would have demanded the 25h be invoked.
 
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