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Michael Flynn Pleads Guilty: Is Trump Finished?

Nickyjo said:
I will admit that openly advocating torture and the commission of war crimes is not the same ole same ole, but to quote Daffy Duck, “it’s dethpicable.” Surprised that someone who has a flag as his symbol doesn’t get how un-American Trump’s values are.
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Trump's values are only unAmerican to the left, who are incensed that voters voted for the unAmerican. It is the left who are unAmerican and why Trump won on a campaign theme of "Making America Great Again", because it wasn't before.
 
Moderate Right said:
Trump's values are only unAmerican to the left, who are incensed that voters voted for the unAmerican. It is the left who are unAmerican and why Trump won on a campaign theme of "Making America Great Again", because it wasn't before.
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Torture is unAmerican. Deliberately killing the spouses and kids of terrorists or any other criminal is uAmerican. That’s what the Germans did in occupied Europe.

But explain, Senator McCarthy, how is the left —which has made the workplace safer and the air cleaner, established Social Security and Medicare, ensured the rights of people of color and women, helped end a useless war in Vietnam—unAmerican? The left of bygone years helped free the slaves and get women the vote. Proud history that Made America Great. Sounds like a slogan.
 
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SonOfDaedalus said:
1. He wasn't president.

2. Why didn't he do this publically?

3. Why didn't he work with the state department during the transition and communicate his intentions?

Russia is an enemy. The CIA director called them an enemy. They attacked us and are still attacking us. Since when is it OK to work with and help an enemy?
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WHy are you stuck in such a cold war mentality?



Oh...wait..were those retards lying THEN out of political convenience? Are they lying now? Or were they just that ****ing stupid?

Who did you vote for again?
 
Nickyjo said:
Torture is unAmerican. Deliberately killing the spouses and kids of terrorists or any other criminal is uAmerican. That’s what the Germans did in occupied Europe.

But explain, Senator McCarthy, how is the left —which has made the workplace safer and the air cleaner, established Social Security and Medicare, ensured the rights of people of color and women, helped end a useless war in Vietnam—unAmerican? The left of bygone years helped free the slaves and get women the vote. Proud history that Made America Great. Sounds like a slogan.
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The truth is both the left and the right claim the moral high ground and accuse the others of being morally challenged. Your side supports fetus murderers under the guise of women's rights and favors keeping the poor in a cycle of poverty that they can't ever escape from. When the poor's lives get harder and harder the answer is always more free gimmees from the government. I could go on but I don't have the time.
 
VanceMack said:
WHy are you stuck in such a cold war mentality?
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I don't think anyone can deny that Romney was right. But hindsight is 20/20. The Russians hacked us and sent all these bots only in the past few years. We actually tried to reach out and establish better relations with Russia. They bit our hands.

And you can't have it both ways. If Romney was right then what is Trump? After all the evidence that has emerged about Russia attacking us and our allies, how do you explain Trump?

Obama slapped sanctions on Russia after they attacked us. Trump tried to remove them. Trump has done everything except get on his knees and give Putin...well you know...thanks.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
I don't think anyone can deny that Romney was right. But hindsight is 20/20. The Russians hacked us and sent all these bots only in the past few years. We actually tried to reach out and establish better relations with Russia. They bit our hands.

And you can't have it both ways. If Romney was right then what is Trump? After all the evidence that has emerged about Russia attacking us and our allies, how do you explain Trump?

Obama slapped sanctions on Russia after they attacked us. Trump tried to remove them. Trump has done everything except get on his knees and give Putin...well you know...thanks.
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You dont know that Russia hacked anyone. What you 'know' is that John Podesta fell for a phishing email, gave someone access to his email, and that the DNC had a habit of emailing around in group emails their access to their servers. The DNC never turned the servers over to anyone and only provided their server logs to a 'private' company in the Ukraine...the home of the Trump Dossier. Every report released by the nations intel agencies have been based on that. So you literally know what the DNC wanted you to know...and nothing more.

Did Russia try to get involved in our election? Sure...the same as we get involved in everyone elses. Did they hack anything and did their involvement influence even a single vote/ Theres no evidence of that.

Now...are the investigations complete? Nope. Should they complete them? You bet...but they should completely investigate both sides. After that...let whoever they find guilty hang. But now? Today? There is still no evidence of collusion. Russia is the same as they have always been. They arent our friends. They weren't back in 2012 when Obama was giving Medvedev a handjob and they aren't today. They weren't when they were dumping millions into the Clinton Foundation. They weren't when we were selling access and approving uranium sales.

But NOW it matters.

And you wonder why leftists have **** for credibility.
 
Moderate Right said:
The truth is both the left and the right claim the moral high ground and accuse the others of being morally challenged. Your side supports fetus murderers under the guise of women's rights and favors keeping the poor in a cycle of poverty that they can't ever escape from. When the poor's lives get harder and harder the answer is always more free gimmees from the government. I could go on but I don't have the time.
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Keeping the poor in poverty? Can’t remember the number of times as a union organizer we deplored the liberals and democrats for failing to support organizing workers, how we consistently campaigned against raising the minimum wage, how we refused to support Medicare cause it would allow older folks to escape poverty.

Seriously, for all our efforts on the left, we don’t come close to other developed democracies for services we offer, and as a result have about the worst income income distribution. Why would the party with such a strong labor record want people to stay poor? You have things a bit backward.
 
Nickyjo said:
Keeping the poor in poverty? Can’t remember the number of times as a union organizer we deplored the liberals and democrats for failing to support organizing workers, how we consistently campaigned against raising the minimum wage, how we refused to support Medicare cause it would allow older folks to escape poverty.

Seriously, for all our efforts on the left, we don’t come close to other developed democracies for services we offer, and as a result have about the worst income income distribution. Why would the party with such a strong labor record want people to stay poor? You have things a bit backward.
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Organized workers are not the poor. The poor are too unskilled to work in many union jobs. And, the left allow union jobs to leave the country via several different reasons.

We need a low minimum wage not only for very small businesses to compete but for extremely low skilled workers who wouldn't have a job at all if the minimum wage was raised too high.

Who refused to support Medicare?
 
Moderate Right said:
Organized workers are not the poor. The poor are too unskilled to work in many union jobs. And, the left allow union jobs to leave the country via several different reasons.

We need a low minimum wage not only for very small businesses to compete but for extremely low skilled workers who wouldn't have a job at all if the minimum wage was raised too high.

Who refused to support Medicare?
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I was being ironic. Democrats created Medicare while Reagan said it would make us unfree. Point is that all jobs could be union jobs if people could organize under the rules set by democrats, but changed through Taft-Hartley when the GOPtook over.

Like it or not, all the reforms in n the workplace in the 20th century came about through liberal democrats and republicans, back when there were liberal republicans. And they created the greatest prosperity in history. If businesses can’t afford to pay decent wages, they shouldn’t be in business, or at least shouldn’t hire people. The rest of the developed world manages to pay higher wages and has better income distribution. If you want to have a low minimum wage, fine, just be willing to pay higher taxes to provide programs for government to supplement wages so people can live. Otherwise you open the door to theft. People have to eat.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Apparently, you don’t understand how this works. You plead guilty to a lesser crime and are given immunity for a more serious crime in exchange for incriminating information against someone higher up.

If you get busted for drug trafficking and you agree to give up a drug lord maybe you plead guilty to possession instead of trafficking.

Once the drug trafficker plead guilty to possession it makes no sense to argue that his only crime was possession. It’s a plea deal.

Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI to avoid more serious charges. But he had to give up Trump to get that deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That is awhile lot of assumptions you are coming up with there.
Starting with the one where you assume that the only reason people plead guilty is for immunity to a worse crime which is demonstrably wrong.
Whey all your assumptions are based off of what you want to happen and not actual facts it rarely ends well.
 
Quote...
" It's over folks. Trump is done. "
(buzzard)...You will recall our President Trump declaring Jerusalem as the new Capital as many presidents including dicktator obama has failed.
No...Mr. Trump isn't done...he's just begun.
 
Nickyjo said:
I was being ironic. Democrats created Medicare while Reagan said it would make us unfree. Point is that all jobs could be union jobs if people could organize under the rules set by democrats, but changed through Taft-Hartley when the GOPtook over.

Like it or not, all the reforms in n the workplace in the 20th century came about through liberal democrats and republicans, back when there were liberal republicans. And they created the greatest prosperity in history. If businesses can’t afford to pay decent wages, they shouldn’t be in business, or at least shouldn’t hire people. The rest of the developed world manages to pay higher wages and has better income distribution. If you want to have a low minimum wage, fine, just be willing to pay higher taxes to provide programs for government to supplement wages so people can live. Otherwise you open the door to theft. People have to eat.
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Unions were a good thing when they first started but rose to too much power. We need a close to perfect 50/50 balance of power between labor and management. It's ridiculous that every job be a union job. But, for every action there is a reaction. So, if you unions demand too much, making it an easier decision to automize more or move overseas, then the union defeated their own purpose. Funny how the left want single payer healthcare to eliminate the middle man but are in favor of labor unions, who are middlemen who get rich.
 
Moderate Right said:
Unions were a good thing when they first started but rose to too much power. We need a close to perfect 50/50 balance of power between labor and management. It's ridiculous that every job be a union job. But, for every action there is a reaction. So, if you unions demand too much, making it an easier decision to automize more or move overseas, then the union defeated their own purpose. Funny how the left want single payer healthcare to eliminate the middle man but are in favor of labor unions, who are middlemen who get rich.
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Simple question: do workers get paid more or less and have greater or fewer benefits states where union “middlemen” are strong?
I used to be a union official and to guys who objected to joining I offered to waive their dues if they would accept the lower non-union wages. Got no takers. As the bumper sticker says, if you like your weekends off, thank the union movement. No mystery why wages stagnated as unions got weaker.
 
Nickyjo said:
Simple question: do workers get paid more or less and have greater or fewer benefits states where union “middlemen” are strong?
I used to be a union official and to guys who objected to joining I offered to waive their dues if they would accept the lower non-union wages. Got no takers. As the bumper sticker says, if you like your weekends off, thank the union movement. No mystery why wages stagnated as unions got weaker.
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Workers get paid less when they unionize by making excessive demands and driving their jobs overseas or increasing the rate of automization . This is what the left does not understand. They just sit there with their thumbs up their asses and say employers would have moved overseas or automized anyway. The left is so stupid because they let $30 per hour manufacturing jobs leave the country or get eaten up by automization and then tell those unemployed that they are going to fight for $15 per hour and that a job at Walmart has been reserved for them.
 
Moderate Right said:
Workers get paid less when they unionize by making excessive demands and driving their jobs overseas or increasing the rate of automization . This is what the left does not understand. They just sit there with their thumbs up their asses and say employers would have moved overseas or automized anyway. The left is so stupid because they let $30 per hour manufacturing jobs leave the country or get eaten up by automization and then tell those unemployed that they are going to fight for $15 per hour and that a job at Walmart has been reserved for them.
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They wouldn't have been $30/hr jobs without the unions.
 
Critter7r said:
They wouldn't have been $30/hr jobs without the unions.
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And most of those jobs would not have been lost but for the unions. That's exactly my point! The American worker gets greedier and greedier until the company finally says enough is enough and relocates overseas.
 
Moderate Right said:
And most of those jobs would not have been lost but for the unions. That's exactly my point! The American worker gets greedier and greedier until the company finally says enough is enough and relocates overseas.
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Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Blame Obama for losing these "good, $30/hr jobs" to automation or overseas, then blame the unions for making them $30 jobs in the first place.

Let them eat cake!!
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...n-937am:homepage/story&utm_term=.4cbc66502efd

Let's face it. Trump is finished. If Flynn got a deal it's because he gave Mueller something juicy enough to cut loose a guy who knows EVERYTHING like Flynn. Flynn admitted to talking about removing sanctions with Russia. No doubt, Mueller wanted the big firsh--Trump. The only way I see Mueller cutting Flynn loose is if he gave up the Donald.

It's over folks. Trump is done.
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Stupid thread is stupid. Next up...delusional democrats believe Hillary will get a second chance at being president. Or some other ridiculous nonsense.
 
blackjack50 said:
Stupid thread is stupid. Next up...delusional democrats believe Hillary will get a second chance at being president. Or some other ridiculous nonsense.
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When Nixon resigned he had a 24% approval rating. Trump currently has a 35% approval.

When all the dirt about Flynn making money from lifting sanctions and all the lies Trump told are full exposed, Trump will reach Nixon lows.

Regardless, I think you'll be one of Nixon's 24%. People who are willing to support completely corrupt politicians. There's no point arguing with the Nixon 24% type of person.

The truth:

Trump ordered Flynn to meet with Kislyak.
Trump lied about it.
Trump claimed Flynn lied to them. That was a lie.
Flynn was planning to cash in on lifting sanctions.
Trump was trying to lift sanctions.
Trump was trying to build a tower in Russia.
These people were trying to make money from lifting Russian sanctions.
Trump fired Comey because he was investigating his criminal activity to sell out America.

You can continue remaining in denial as Trump is forced to resign and claims he is not a crook.

Trump's crimes are far far worse than Nixon. Nixon never sold his country to a foreign power.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
When Nixon resigned he had a 24% approval rating. Trump currently has a 35% approval.

When all the dirt about Flynn making money from lifting sanctions and all the lies Trump told are full exposed, Trump will reach Nixon lows.

Regardless, I think you'll be one of Nixon's 24%. People who are willing to support completely corrupt politicians. There's no point arguing with the Nixon 24% type of person.

The truth:

Trump ordered Flynn to meet with Kislyak.
Trump lied about it.
Trump claimed Flynn lied to them. That was a lie.
Flynn was planning to cash in on lifting sanctions.
Trump was trying to lift sanctions.
Trump was trying to build a tower in Russia.
These people were trying to make money from lifting Russian sanctions.
Trump fired Comey because he was investigating his criminal activity to sell out America.

You can continue remaining in denial as Trump is forced to resign and claims he is not a crook.

Trump's crimes are far far worse than Nixon. Nixon never sold his country to a foreign power.
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Lmao. I detest trump. I’m just not a deluded liberal partisan hack. I hate him because he is a spineless Hillary campaign donor. **** him. But you are insane If you think you are getting anything from all this hubbub. If anything...you get a more presidential right wing Christian fundamentalist who will REALLY **** up the left’s attempts to get in power. But don’t worry. I know it doesn’t matter what trump actually did. You will believe it as long as it says so on your favorite news source. Just like when they said Hillary was an 80% favorite and trump was a joke of a candidate. ;)
 
Moderate Right said:
Workers get paid less when they unionize by making excessive demands and driving their jobs overseas or increasing the rate of automization . This is what the left does not understand. They just sit there with their thumbs up their asses and say employers would have moved overseas or automized anyway. The left is so stupid because they let $30 per hour manufacturing jobs leave the country or get eaten ize up by automization and then tell those unemployed that they are going to fight for $15 per hour and that a job at Walmart has been reserved for them.
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So the left was wrong to organize unions? Actually, I have heard from European friends the theory that unions there are not as adversarial as they are in the US, perhaps because their history wasn’t as conflict driven as it was in the US, and that unions are thus more collaborative with management. Don’t know if that’s true.
 
Nickyjo said:
So the left was wrong to organize unions? Actually, I have heard from European friends the theory that unions there are not as adversarial as they are in the US, perhaps because their history wasn’t as conflict driven as it was in the US, and that unions are thus more collaborative with management. Don’t know if that’s true.
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I already said that when unions first came out it was a good thing. Then they turned into nothing but an organized crime syndicate and got too powerful.
 
Moderate Right said:
I already said that when unions first came out it was a good thing. Then they turned into nothing but an organized crime syndicate and got too powerful.
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Beware of absolute statements.
 
Nickyjo said:
Beware of absolute statements.
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So you deny that unions became organized crime syndicates? Are you saying that if I accuse unions of becoming organized crime syndicates that they will put a contract out on me?
 
So Flynn is charged with lying to the FBI, what did he lie about;

1. “[He] did not ask the Russian Ambassador to delay the vote on or defeat a pending United Nations Security Council resolution.”
This is apparently a reference to a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements that was passed on December 23, 2016.

2. Flynn asked the Russian Ambassador “to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia,” and then lied about it to the FBI. Flynn said he “did not recall the Russian Ambassador subsequently telling him that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of his request.”

Flynns actions were not illegal but most consider it to be a middle finger to the at that time President Obama. His statements that were made to FBI (see above) since were found out to be untrue is illegal and there fore he can be charged with lying to the FBI.

Everyone is making this out to be some kind of big deal and im not seeing it at all...
 
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