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Anarchist FAQ

I believe anarchy could work if everyone acted for what's best for the anarchist community as a whole. Most people just don't want to be bothered, things wouldn't change if there wasn't a government, but of course there are those crazies out there that just want to cause problems.
There are more problems with anarchism. Anarchism experience what we call the tragedy of the commons. If there is no fishing regulations, then people would fish too much in the sea. They would pollute too much. Think about the water crisis in Australia, if they had anarchy, then much more would been destroyed. The Government first rationed water, and in the end told farms to not use the water because it became too salty and destroyed wildlife.

Also, anarchy in a safe enviroment would lead to liberalism. Hence all criticism of liberalism applies to safe anarchy.
 
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'Government' can refer to any model of social organization. Anarchism isn't opposed to that. An Anarchist society would have councils, courts, it would have laws, etc. Anarchism is fundamentally opposed to Nation-States, which are illegitimate instiutions and should, thus, be dismantled.

What, in your view, deligitimizes a nation-state, and how exactly would an anarcho-syndicalist council, court, or law be more legitimate relative to those of a nation-state?
 
'Government' can refer to any model of social organization. Anarchism isn't opposed to that. An Anarchist society would have councils, courts, it would have laws, etc. Anarchism is fundamentally opposed to Nation-States, which are illegitimate instiutions and should, thus, be dismantled.

That's why I was trying to convince people that you can be both a libertarian and an anarchist, but nobody seems to listen. I was also trying to convince people that "committes" would work just as well as our current CJS.
 
What, in your view, deligitimizes a nation-state, and how exactly would an anarcho-syndicalist council, court, or law be more legitimate relative to those of a nation-state?

I never said it would be more legitamate, I just don't like the government telling us every little thing we need to do. I'd rather the government be almost non-existant, maybe to maintain an army but that's about it.
 
There are more problems with anarchism. Anarchism experience what we call the tragedy of the commons. If there is no fishing regulations, then people would fish too much in the sea. They would pollute too much. Think about the water crisis in Australia, if they had anarchy, then much more would been destroyed. The Government first rationed water, and in the end told farms to not use the water because it became too salty and destroyed wildlife.

Also, anarchy in a safe enviroment would lead to liberalism. Hence all criticism of liberalism applies to safe anarchy.

Not everyone needs to fish, if there was anarchy, everyone could just farm.
 
I never said it would be more legitamate, I just don't like the government telling us every little thing we need to do. I'd rather the government be almost non-existant, maybe to maintain an army but that's about it.

I was asking NGM because he was the one that mentioned legitimacy.

You did say, however, that "there are those crazies out there that just want to cause problems." So what would you prefer be in place to protect against such people if the government's only power was the maintenance of a military?
 
Not everyone needs to fish, if there was anarchy, everyone could just farm.
Um... everyone could just farm? Also, people are going to fish wheter you like it or not.

BTW: I didn't see any rebutuals to the rest of my arguments.
 
What, in your view, deligitimizes a nation-state, and how exactly would an anarcho-syndicalist council, court, or law be more legitimate relative to those of a nation-state?

First; let’s define the Nation-State.

Max Weber defined the state as the body which holds a monopoly on violence in a given territory. He wasn’t wrong, however, there are additional criteria. The fundamental characteristics of a Nation-State are as follows;

Ultimate authority rests in a centralized, bureaucratic structure.

Clearly defined borders.

It’s own economy, although, Nation-States typically, regularly, engage in trade with other economic actors.

A sense of common cultural identity, including national myths, and the quasi-religious fetishization of objects and institutions.

That’s essentially the definition of the modern Nation-State, which can vary from police states like Nazi Germany the USSR, or North Korea, to the Scandinavian Social Democracies.

What’s wrong with Nation-States? A number of things. First of all; the ideas they are based on. It is inherently divisive. It transforms arbitrary borders into magical boundries, those on the other side are, at best, naughty children who simply can‘t comprehend ‘our‘ benevolence, or, at worst, vermin to be annihilated. This sets up an adversarial relationship with the rest of the world. Nation states pursue the ‘National Interest’ (Which is usually the interest of moneyed elites, and is often actually detrimental to the majority of the populace.) which, supposedly, is at odds with the interests of the other tribes. Etc., etc.

The Anarchist objection to how states function is that they are insufficiently democratic. There are degrees, of course. The United States is more democratic than, say, North Korea, but, still, citizens play a very marginal role in governance. (There is also a concerted effort to ensure that this is so.) The only role the public has is to ratify decision that have already been made, to pick which wing of the business party will rule. Take Universal Healthcare. According to Sen. John Kerry it’s ‘Not politically possible.’, which is probably right, yet a clear majority of the public supports it, and has for years. That doesn’t matter. In a truly democratic society, it would matter.

An Anarcho-Sydicalist Federation would be more legitimate because it would allow people substantially more participation and control than in the present system where their only role is to ratify and consume. Our present political and social structure largely exists to serve the needs of the elites, to the detriment of the majority of the population.
 
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I was asking NGM because he was the one that mentioned legitimacy.

You did say, however, that "there are those crazies out there that just want to cause problems." So what would you prefer be in place to protect against such people if the government's only power was the maintenance of a military?

A town watch, or a citizen police force. Committes.
 
There are more problems with anarchism. Anarchism experience what we call the tragedy of the commons. If there is no fishing regulations, then people would fish too much in the sea. They would pollute too much. Think about the water crisis in Australia, if they had anarchy, then much more would been destroyed. The Government first rationed water, and in the end told farms to not use the water because it became too salty and destroyed wildlife.

Also, anarchy in a safe enviroment would lead to liberalism. Hence all criticism of liberalism applies to safe anarchy.

Anarchism does not preclude the existence of laws. Murder and rape would be no more permissible than they are today, etc.
 
Um... everyone could just farm? Also, people are going to fish wheter you like it or not.

BTW: I didn't see any rebutuals to the rest of my arguments.

Why can't everyone farm? Grow and produce their own medicine, food and clothing. Sure that's true, but like the old saying goes there are a lot of fish in the sea. We aren't just going to run out of fish not everyone fishes for food or we could have fish farms to keep the population of fish at a stable level.
 
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There are more problems with anarchism. Anarchism experience what we call the tragedy of the commons. If there is no fishing regulations, then people would fish too much in the sea. They would pollute too much. Think about the water crisis in Australia, if they had anarchy, then much more would been destroyed. The Government first rationed water, and in the end told farms to not use the water because it became too salty and destroyed wildlife.

Also, anarchy in a safe enviroment would lead to liberalism. Hence all criticism of liberalism applies to safe anarchy.

As far as polluting too much, I guess someone would have to pick up trash for a living. I'm sure that someone would pay them to do that.
 
Anarchism does not preclude the existence of laws. Murder and rape would be no more permissible than they are today, etc.
It does, or else you won't have anarchy. However, people can take the law in their own hands, but if they are not strong enough then they won't be able to take down the criminals. Also, criminals or other groups may take down people they think have broken their rules.

Hence, it will cause social unrest.
 
It does, or else you won't have anarchy. However, people can take the law in their own hands, but if they are not strong enough then they won't be able to take down the criminals. Also, criminals or other groups may take down people they think have broken their rules.

Hence, it will cause social unrest.

Clearly, you do not understand Anarchism. My advice would be to return to the beginning of the thread where I have posted a multitude of resources for beginners.
 
As far as polluting too much, I guess someone would have to pick up trash for a living. I'm sure that someone would pay them to do that.
There are other ways to pollute than through garbage. Who is going to pay companies to not pollute NOX in the atmosphere? To produce products environmental friendly is expensive, so even if they wanted to. They would not be able to, because their products would be more expensive.

Why can't everyone farm? Grow and produce their own medicine, food and clothing. Sure that's true, but like the old saying goes there are a lot of fish in the sea. We aren't just going to run out of fish not everyone fishes for food or we could have fish farms to keep the population of fish at a stable level.
Because if everyone farm, there won't be any doctors, lawyers any schoolteachers, any clothes, any manufacturing products such as a washing machine. You will move the society back in the 1800s.

We will run out of fish if there is overfishing. There is a reason all countries have quotas.
 
Clearly, you do not understand Anarchism. My advice would be to return to the beginning of the thread where I have posted a multitude of resources for beginners.
Clearly, you don't understand anarchism. There will be no public police force, each group will take their laws into their own hands, and decide after what they think is right. From your own source.

In the case of a "police force," this would not exist either as a public or private specialised body or company. If a local community did consider that public safety required a body of people who could be called upon for help, we imagine that a new system would be created. Such a system would "not be entrusted to, as it is today, to a special, official body: all able-bodied inhabitants [of a commune] will be called upon to take turns in the security measures instituted by the commune." [James Guillaume, Bakunin on Anarchism, p. 371] This system would be based around a voluntary militia system, in which all members of the community could serve if they so desired. Those who served would not constitute a professional body; instead the service would be made up of local people who would join for short periods of time and be replaced if they abused their position. Hence the likelihood that a communal militia would become corrupted by power, like the current police force or a private security firm exercising a policing function, would be vastly reduced. Moreover, by accustoming a population to intervene in anti-social as part of the militia, they would be empowered to do so when not an active part of it, so reducing the need for its services even more.
Such a body would not have a monopoly on protecting others, but would simply be on call if others required it. It would no more be a monopoly of defence (i.e. a "police force") than the current fire service is a monopoly. Individuals are not banned from putting out fires today because the fire service exists, similarly individuals will be free to help stop anti-social crime by themselves, or in association with others, in an anarchist society.
 
There are other ways to pollute than through garbage. Who is going to pay companies to not pollute NOX in the atmosphere? To produce products environmental friendly is expensive, so even if they wanted to. They would not be able to, because their products would be more expensive.


Because if everyone farm, there won't be any doctors, lawyers any schoolteachers, any clothes, any manufacturing products such as a washing machine. You will move the society back in the 1800s.

We will run out of fish if there is overfishing. There is a reason all countries have quotas.

Like I said the community as a whole would decide what is best and what should be done and how for the betterment of everyone.

That's not what I meant, I meant that everyone could grow their own food and medicine in their garden.

Which is why I said that there could be fish farms so that we can constantly breed fish while people are fishing and then release them into the ocean when the population is low.
 
Clearly, you don't understand anarchism. There will be no public police force, each group will take their laws into their own hands, and decide after what they think is right. From your own source.

Anarchism is a philosophical and ethical outlook. There is no universally accepted plan for how an Anarchist society would function, although, there are a number of models, like Parecon and Parpolity. This is one suggestion. It isn't doctrinal law. I have a different view.
 
Anarchism is a philosophical and ethical outlook. There is no universally accepted plan for how an Anarchist society would function, although, there are a number of models, like Parecon and Parpolity. This is one suggestion. It isn't doctrinal law. I have a different view.
An society with a public police force will not be anarchist. It will be libertarian at the best.

In an anarchist society each group will take the laws into their own hands. For instance by the system described above, or by paying someone to work as police officers. However, other groups in the society, especially criminal gangs, will have different rules. This will be a breeding ground for social unrest.
 
Like I said the community as a whole would decide what is best and what should be done and how for the betterment of everyone.

That's not what I meant, I meant that everyone could grow their own food and medicine in their garden.

Which is why I said that there could be fish farms so that we can constantly breed fish while people are fishing and then release them into the ocean when the population is low.
I'm sorry to pop your bubble, but the world is not that simple. To grow your own food in your own garden is nice, but extremely inefficient. If you have had a garden, you will know there is no way a garden can provide you with all the food and especially medicine you need. By making people specialize, we drastically improve efficiency.

Also, releasing fish farms tends to be quite damaging to the wild life, since the fish in the fish farm is not used to life on the outside.
 
A town watch, or a citizen police force. Committes.

We have these now, why would these be fundamentally different under your anarchist ideal? Corruption can start with any individual.
 
An Anarcho-Sydicalist Federation would be more legitimate because it would allow people substantially more participation and control than in the present system where their only role is to ratify and consume. Our present political and social structure largely exists to serve the needs of the elites, to the detriment of the majority of the population.

...And so you don't believe that a caste system with elites can occur without a nation state to back their interests? We know that isn't true, because status systems exist even in hunter-gatherer societies. Unless you would include a mechanism of force within your system to keep such inequality in check, but then you delegitimize your own system by your own standard. Where anyone, even a person who would arise to elite status, is precluded from following the path they choose you have the usurpation of participation and control of that individual. And that's only conceding to you that things would even work as you envision. The nation-state theoretically holds the monopoly of force, however, without the nation-state that monopoly simply falls to another entity. There's no way around that. So we're not really even talking about legitimacy here, but simply a matter of scale.
 
First; let’s define the Nation-State.

Max Weber defined the state as the body which holds a monopoly on violence in a given territory. He wasn’t wrong, however, there are additional criteria. The fundamental characteristics of a Nation-State are as follows;

Ultimate authority rests in a centralized, bureaucratic structure.

Clearly defined borders.

It’s own economy, although, Nation-States typically, regularly, engage in trade with other economic actors.

A sense of common cultural identity, including national myths, and the quasi-religious fetishization of objects and institutions.

That’s essentially the definition of the modern Nation-State, which can vary from police states like Nazi Germany the USSR, or North Korea, to the Scandinavian Social Democracies.

What’s wrong with Nation-States? A number of things. First of all; the ideas they are based on. It is inherently divisive. It transforms arbitrary borders into magical boundries, those on the other side are, at best, naughty children who simply can‘t comprehend ‘our‘ benevolence, or, at worst, vermin to be annihilated. This sets up an adversarial relationship with the rest of the world. Nation states pursue the ‘National Interest’ (Which is usually the interest of moneyed elites, and is often actually detrimental to the majority of the populace.) which, supposedly, is at odds with the interests of the other tribes. Etc., etc.

The Anarchist objection to how states function is that they are insufficiently democratic. There are degrees, of course. The United States is more democratic than, say, North Korea, but, still, citizens play a very marginal role in governance. (There is also a concerted effort to ensure that this is so.) The only role the public has is to ratify decision that have already been made, to pick which wing of the business party will rule. Take Universal Healthcare. According to Sen. John Kerry it’s ‘Not politically possible.’, which is probably right, yet a clear majority of the public supports it, and has for years. That doesn’t matter. In a truly democratic society, it would matter.

An Anarcho-Sydicalist Federation would be more legitimate because it would allow people substantially more participation and control than in the present system where their only role is to ratify and consume. Our present political and social structure largely exists to serve the needs of the elites, to the detriment of the majority of the population.


If it's so much better, why did human society, and other animals too, evolve to have hierarchical order all over the world? Why didn't we just remain without any power structure whatsoever as we must originally be?
 
If it's so much better, why did human society, and other animals too, evolve to have hierarchical order all over the world? Why didn't we just remain without any power structure whatsoever as we must originally be?

Because human society doesn't evolve rationally.
 
...And so you don't believe that a caste system with elites can occur without a nation state to back their interests?

I didn’t say that. It’s theoretically possible, but it would be difficult. This is why Libertarian principles must be consistently applied. Authority must always be held to a heavy burden of proof as to it’s legitimacy, if it can’t meet that burden, it should be dismantled or replaced. We must continually be on our guard identifying institutions of oppression, we’ll very likely find some we hadn’t even thought of.


We know that isn't true, because status systems exist even in hunter-gatherer societies.

There’s a difference between this and the rigid, institutionalized authoritarianism we see in Nation-States and Corporations.


Unless you would include a mechanism of force within your system to keep such inequality in check, but then you delegitimize your own system by your own standard.

No. Take private property. You don’t have the right to steal from me. If I prevent you from stealing from me, or refuse to give you my earnings, that isn’t oppressing you in any way, shape, or form.

Where anyone, even a person who would arise to elite status, is precluded from following the path they choose you have the usurpation of participation and control of that individual. And that's only conceding to you that things would even work as you envision.

No, it isn’t. See above.

The nation-state theoretically holds the monopoly of force, however, without the nation-state that monopoly simply falls to another entity. There's no way around that. So we're not really even talking about legitimacy here, but simply a matter of scale.

That isn’t absolute, that’s not like a law of physics. In a Libertarian society the power rests in the people, themselves.
 
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