Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentality’[W:110]

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Hatuey said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/...-harvey-victims-dont-have-a-victim-mentality/



Couldn't find a better source - but this made me chuckle. A sky being will pay you back for destroying your home, your personal documents, and killing your relatives with a storm. It will pay you back for destroying everything you've worked for allow you to function normally in a society, but not with interest for all of the time you'll spend trying to get your life back in order.

Just donate to Joel Osteen's church and you'll see.

I promise. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

His message is classic name it - claim it prosperity gospel.

It reminds me of this excerpt from a polemic against religion by Sam Harris during a debate at Notre Dame:

"We’re told that God is loving and kind and just and intrinsically good. But when someone like myself points out the rather obvious and compelling evidence that God is cruel and unjust, because he visits suffering on innocent people of a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath, we are told that god is mysterious. Who can understand god’s will? Yet this merely human understanding of God's will is precisely what believers use to establish his goodness in the first place. If something good happens to a Christian—he feels some bliss while praying, or he sees some positive change his life—we're told that God is good. But when children by the tens of thousands are torn from their parents’ arms and drowned, we are told god is mysterious.

This is how you play tennis without the net.

And I want to suggest to you that it is not only tiresome when otherwise intelligent people speak this way, it is morally reprehensible. This kind of faith really is the perfection of narcissism: “God loves me, don’t you know? He cured me of my eczema; he makes me feels so good while singing in church; and just when we had given up hope, he found a banker who was willing to reduce my mother’s mortgage.” Given all this god of yours does not accomplish in the lives of others, given the misery that’s being imposed on some helpless child at this instant, this kind of faith is obscene. " --Sam Harris

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

I've tried several times to respond to this thread but I can't without being as ass. I'm so pissed off at the people who voted down zoning, the officials who didn't want to inhibit growth, the industries and developers who have bribed, (a true substitute for lobbied), their way out of real preparations, so that a foreseeable event such as this could have been at least reduced in impact. But no. So now, once again, taxpayers will bail out people who weren't interested in spending any money or effort on the front end but will be happy to get some help now. And what really pisses me off is that the poorest, who had little choice in this will end up like those from Katrina. Shipped off to live in some hotel for months because their apartment is gone, job is gone, car is gone, clothes are gone and well before they have any semblance of normalcy, people will be calling them names for taking advantage (sponging off), of the system.
Some places have learned from the past and build smarter. Many more do not. Part of me wants to say this is your last freaking chance. Do something different this time or F off next time.
This was by far the nicest post I could do.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Hatuey said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/...-harvey-victims-dont-have-a-victim-mentality/



Couldn't find a better source - but this made me chuckle. A sky being will pay you back for destroying your home, your personal documents, and killing your relatives with a storm. It will pay you back for destroying everything you've worked for allow you to function normally in a society, but not with interest for all of the time you'll spend trying to get your life back in order.

Just donate to Joel Osteen's church and you'll see.

I promise. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

I was going to ask. I take it this speech came right before the basket was passed around. :lol:

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Hatuey said:

The delusion among the right as to who this charlatan is continues. Here are the simple realities behind Osteen's comments, folks:

1. Joel Osteen's church lied about whether or not it could take people. It has been holding services a few days after saying it was in such a bad state that it couldn't take people.

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And this has what to do with his message of hope you lied about?

Hatuey said:

2. The pastor himself has stated that a sky being will pay people back for all that his storm destroyed.

Click to expand...

He said nothing of the sort. Please point out where he said this? The closest he came is:

“We’re not going to understand everything that happens, but having a ‘poor me mentality,’ or ‘look what I lost,’ or ‘why did this happen’ … that’s just gonna pull you down,” he said from Lakewood Church’s stage.

Osteen urged followers of Christ to “turn it around,” and added that God won’t allow suffering “unless he has a purpose for it.”

“We may not see it all the time, but that’s what faith is all about,” the pastor added. - https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/...-harvey-victims-dont-have-a-victim-mentality/

Read the whole article and it says nothing even close to the bigoted nonsense you are posting. This is why you are refusing to use direct quotes. We are not stupid.

Hatuey said:

3. Now he's telling them to return to the church (that just a few days couldn't hold people), and pray their way to regaining everything destroyed by the sky being's storm.

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Again nothing he said comes even close to that nonsense. I dare you to post an exact quote where he says that? I know you can't because your post is nothing but hyperbolic lying, but I am going to give you the chance nonetheless.

Hatuey said:

You guys keep circlejerking yourselves into believing this isn't just a new phase of con game he and guys like Creflo Dollar play.

Click to expand...

You go ahead and keep spouting your bigoted hapless nonsense, and we will keep pointing out that it has no credibility, at all.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

SouthernDemocrat said:

His message is classic name it - claim it prosperity gospel.

It reminds me of this excerpt from a polemic against religion by Sam Harris during a debate at Notre Dame:

"We’re told that God is loving and kind and just and intrinsically good. But when someone like myself points out the rather obvious and compelling evidence that God is cruel and unjust, because he visits suffering on innocent people of a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath, we are told that god is mysterious. Who can understand god’s will? Yet this merely human understanding of God's will is precisely what believers use to establish his goodness in the first place. If something good happens to a Christian—he feels some bliss while praying, or he sees some positive change his life—we're told that God is good. But when children by the tens of thousands are torn from their parents’ arms and drowned, we are told god is mysterious.

This is how you play tennis without the net.

And I want to suggest to you that it is not only tiresome when otherwise intelligent people speak this way, it is morally reprehensible. This kind of faith really is the perfection of narcissism: “God loves me, don’t you know? He cured me of my eczema; he makes me feels so good while singing in church; and just when we had given up hope, he found a banker who was willing to reduce my mother’s mortgage.” Given all this god of yours does not accomplish in the lives of others, given the misery that’s being imposed on some helpless child at this instant, this kind of faith is obscene. " --Sam Harris

Click to expand...

Yep. My main reason for rejecting religion is in the blue above. Instead, I've come to terms with my god being "my god": a god who feeds my narcissism and personal selfish desires. Of course, I am 100% aware that this god does not exist anywhere but in my own mind.

But, then again, I am smart enough to know this. Only fools believe this other god exists. And, Sam nails it on the head---it's an evil, imaginary god whose worship is obscene beyond measure.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Well ya gotta hand it to old Joel...he's slick-tongued, that's for sure...it's how he''s made his millions...

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Joel Osteen and the Lakewood Church members help people everyday of the year. He gives positive and very uplifting
service every Sunday at Lakewood. Some where around 50,000 attend church there every week.
A place where anyone can worship and is welcomed. Pretty terrible that stories get spun to attack this church.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

calamity said:

Yep. My main reason for rejecting religion is in the blue above. Instead, I've come to terms with my god being "my god": a god who feeds my narcissism and personal selfish desires. Of course, I am 100% aware that this god does not exist anywhere but in my own mind.

But, then again, I am smart enough to know this. Only fools believe this other god exists. And, Sam nails it on the head---it's an evil, imaginary god whose worship is obscene beyond measure.

Click to expand...

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" - 2 Thessalonians 1:8

The world has over 7 billion people in it. Virtually all of them at some point in their lives will be exposed in some way to Christianity, and the majority of of them will reject it because they were not raised in it from early childhood like those of us raised Christian homes in the West. Scripture is very clear in numerous passages that anyone that hears about the word of God, but rejects it, we will be condemned to eternal damnation because of it. Think about that. Just because of where you were born, you will suffer unimaginable torments for all of eternity.

My Facebook feed regularly has prayer requests on it for Facebook friends applying for a new job, moving to a new school district, their 85 year old grandmother that is moving into assisted living and so on. They get that job, and praise the Lord, God is Great!! Meanwhile, there are devout Christian mothers in sub-Saharan Africa that watch their kids starve to death. There are fathers in Syria that are carrying their toddler that just had his legs blown off and watching him bleed out in front of them, nothing they can do. There are small children in Indian slums that are watching their mother die a slow, agonizing, horrible death from cancer, only to then be on the street as beggars. Moreover, that Syrian that is carrying his dying toddler as he bleeds to death, he will die and go to hell for all of eternity because he isn't Christian. Those little kids that will soon be beggars, they will die and go to hell one day for all of eternity, once again because they aren't Christian. The only reason why they are not Christian is just where they happened to be born and the cultures they were raised in. Yet just look at the blessings that God supposedly bestows on Joel Osteen and his wealthy flock. It is indeed a faith that is beyond obscene.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Black Dog said:

Wow what a dishonest mess. I am not going to defend Osteen, as he in my opinion is a charlton. However your gross exaggeration of what he said is just as bad. He did not say anything even close to that nonsense. He simply gave a message of don't drown in self pity, that was it. A message of hope.

Wow, just wow.

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Your have to consider the OP?

the church opened it's doors but was not a designated shelters.
however the days after the hurricane the roads up to the church were flooded.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

SouthernDemocrat said:

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" - 2 Thessalonians 1:8

The world has over 7 billion people in it. Virtually all of them at some point in their lives will be exposed in some way to Christianity, and the majority of of them will reject it because they were not raised in it from early childhood like those of us raised Christian homes in the West. Scripture is very clear in numerous passages that anyone that hears about the word of God, but rejects it, we will be condemned to eternal damnation because of it. Think about that. Just because of where you were born, you will suffer unimaginable torments for all of eternity.

My Facebook feed regularly has prayer requests on it for Facebook friends applying for a new job, moving to a new school district, their 85 year old grandmother that is moving into assisted living and so on. They get that job, and praise the Lord, God is Great!! Meanwhile, there are devout Christian mothers in sub-Saharan Africa that watch their kids starve to death. There are fathers in Syria that are carrying their toddler that just had his legs blown off and watching him bleed out in front of them, nothing they can do. There are small children in Indian slums that are watching their mother die a slow, agonizing, horrible death from cancer, only to then be on the street as beggars. Moreover, that Syrian that is carrying his dying toddler as he bleeds to death, he will die and go to hell for all of eternity because he isn't Christian. Those little kids that will soon be beggars, they will die and go to hell one day for all of eternity, once again because they aren't Christian. The only reason why they are not Christian is just where they happened to be born and the cultures they were raised in. Yet just look at the blessings that God supposedly bestows on Joel Osteen and his wealthy flock. It is indeed a faith that is beyond obscene.

Click to expand...

Wow...just wow...is that the loving, merciful, just God the Bible talks about? I think not...

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Hatuey said:

The delusion among the right as to who this charlatan is continues. Here are the simple realities behind Osteen's comments, folks:

1. Joel Osteen's church lied about whether or not it could take people. It has been holding services a few days after saying it was in such a bad state that it couldn't take people.
2. The pastor himself has stated that a sky being will pay people back for all that his storm destroyed.
3. Now he's telling them to return to the church (that just a few days couldn't hold people), and pray their way to regaining everything destroyed by the sky being's storm.

You guys keep circlejerking yourselves into believing this isn't just a new phase of con game he and guys like Creflo Dollar play.

Click to expand...

It appears you refuse to understand what he meant in his sermon. But, that's to be expected from anyone who worships in The Church of Liberalism.

This is why communists hate organized religion: it gives people faith, without dependence on government. The last thing the Leftists want is for people to be self-sufficient.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

apdst said:

It appears you refuse to understand what he meant in his sermon. But, that's to be expected from anyone who worships in The Church of Liberalism.

This is why communists hate organized religion: it gives people faith, without dependence on government. The last thing the Leftists want is for people to be self-sufficient.

Click to expand...

So, no bailout needed for the good Christians of Houston? Or are they not really entirely self sufficient and they actually do depend on government and the tax money of those who may not be Christian or could even be communist or gasp, leftist for help in their time of need.
Oh, and no "man of god" has the personal wealth and lifestyle that Joel Osteen does.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Elvira said:

Wow...just wow...is that the loving, merciful, just God the Bible talks about? I think not...

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You have to be very, very selective in one's reading of scripture to find a God that is just loving and merciful. There are times in scripture when God is loving and merciful. However, certainly not always. As Richard Dawkins put it:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” -Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion.

Take Numbers 31 for example. God not only commanded wholesale genocide, he also commanded that little virgin girls were to be taken and raped as spoils of war. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31

Even in the New Testament, it states time and time again that anyone that hears and rejects the word of God will be condemned to eternal damnation. Prior to our global society, that concept probably seemed fairly abstract, the notion that the world is full of people that will never embrace Christianity just by virtue of the cultures they were raised in, but today how absolutely unconscionable that is should be apparent to anyone.

My wife and I have adopted special needs twice from China. Had our two daughters not been adopted, they would have aged out of the orphanage upon reaching adulthood, never received an education, and like most kids in China that never get adopted, very well could have ended up beggars. With all the missionaries over there, at some point they would have been proselytized to, yet because they would not have been raised in Christianity, they almost certainly would have rejected it just like a Westerner would typically reject Zoroastrianism or Islam. So if we are to accept that the Bible is the divine word of God, they would be condemned to everlasting damnation because of that. Simply because of where they were born.

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." -John 3:36

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

ludin said:

Your have to consider the OP?

the church opened it's doors but was not a designated shelters.
however the days after the hurricane the roads up to the church were flooded.

Click to expand...

His first response was that they didn't offer because nobody asked. Such a caring attitude shouldn't go unrewarded

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

apdst said:

It appears you refuse to understand what he meant in his sermon. But, that's to be expected from anyone who worships in The Church of Liberalism.This is why communists hate organized religion: it gives people faith, without dependence on government. The last thing the Leftists want is for people to be self-sufficient.

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Congratulations apdst, you managed to work liberals, communists and organized religion into a group of sentences. This is good.

Black Dog said:

And this has what to do with his message of hope you lied about?

Click to expand...

Sigh, from the link you didn't read:

During his message, Osteen told congregants gathered that God would “pay back” hurricane victims for what had been taken from them, and warned them against playing into the “victim mentality.”

Click to expand...

Kal'Stang said:

And you have proof that he lied? Links please. Again, you are taking his comments out of context. Focusing on two words and ignoring everything else. Those words being "god" and "pay". Your bigotry towards religion in this instance is noted and dismissed. You should read the link that nota bene has provided. Don't know if it will do any good considering your obvious disregard for full context but hey, you should read it anyways as it explains in detail why he didn't initially open his doors. That you want to assign some other motive to what happened is nothing more than your bias and bigotry.

Click to expand...

And with that, not a single argument was made that is of any relevance. Simply the claim that people are being too mean to a religious charlatan. We know, it is bigoted to call out these prosperity gospel liars who make millions while congregations full of people who have lost everything put money in their pockets. The prosperity gospel boils down to people simply saying 'give me money, and life will turn out well for you!'. That you think there is bigotry in calling this out is about as impressive as a cloud. Good grief, what's next? Bigoted for calling Herbalife 'venders' scam artists?

Anyways, the church that was too flooded to take in people but is now holding services:

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

nota bene said:

I posted this link last week. Take a look at the pics: Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church answers why it isn't open as a shelter for Harvey flooding victims - Houston Chronicle

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But then there was this...

But following the church’s claim that people would not be able to use the building due to the extreme weather, social media users shared pictures of the outside of the mega church, which does not appear to be blocked off by the flooding that has left thousands of people without accommodation.

Is Joel Osteen's Megachurch Too Flooded to Help Hurricane Harvey Victims?


and this...

FACT CHECK: Was Joel Osteen's Houston 'Megachurch' Affected By Hurricane Harvey?


and this...

This building was one foot from flooding. If we didn’t have our floodgates, it would have flooded,” Osteen said on Today, according to NBC News.


Joel Osteen Confirms Church Did Not Flood, But What About the Photos?


plus this...

It didn’t take long for other photos to surface, showing the complete opposite. People have been posting pictures of severe flooding and water damage that they claim were taken inside the church. However, it seems as though those photos were actually taken in Virginia.


The Houston Chronicle also posted the flood photos from “inside the church,” but a spokesperson for the church said that the floodgate was “almost” compromised in the storm — which means the church was not flooded.

PHOTOS: Did Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church Get Flooded?


John Osteen (father) was a dirtbag, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Hatuey said:

Congratulations apdst, you managed to work liberals, communists and organized religion into a group of sentences. This is good.



Sigh, from the link you didn't read:





And with that, not a single argument was made that is of any relevance. Simply the claim that people are being too mean to a religious charlatan. We know, it is bigoted to call out these prosperity gospel liars who make millions while congregations full of people who have lost everything put money in their pockets. The prosperity gospel boils down to people simply saying 'give me money, and life will turn out well for you!'. That you think there is bigotry in calling this out is about as impressive as a cloud. Good grief, what's next? Bigoted for calling Herbalife 'venders' scam artists?

Anyways, the church that was too flooded to take in people but is now holding services:

Click to expand...

Thank you. Your insults proves that I made my point and you have nothing to counter with.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

trblmkr said:

So, no bailout needed for the good Christians of Houston? Or are they not really entirely self sufficient and they actually do depend on government and the tax money of those who may not be Christian or could even be communist or gasp, leftist for help in their time of need.
Oh, and no "man of god" has the personal wealth and lifestyle that Joel Osteen does.

Click to expand...

A bailout? No. A helping hand? Yes, most will need that.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

ludin said:

Your have to consider the OP?

the church opened it's doors but was not a designated shelters.
however the days after the hurricane the roads up to the church were flooded.

Click to expand...

Like I said I don't know what happened as far as the flooding and his story. So I have no comment about that.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Hatuey said:

Sigh, from the link you didn't read:

"During his message, Osteen told congregants gathered that God would “pay back” hurricane victims for what had been taken from them, and warned them against playing into the “victim mentality.”

Click to expand...

That is not what he said, and it is also not any kind of a direct quote as he said noting close. Hyperbolic lie, just as I said.

Hatuey said:

And with that, not a single argument was made that is of any relevance. Simply the claim that people are being too mean to a religious charlatan. We know, it is bigoted to call out these prosperity gospel liars who make millions while congregations full of people who have lost everything put money in their pockets. The prosperity gospel boils down to people simply saying 'give me money, and life will turn out well for you!'. That you think there is bigotry in calling this out is about as impressive as a cloud. Good grief, what's next? Bigoted for calling Herbalife 'venders' scam artists?

Click to expand...

So in other words you can't again post anything even close that he said to the lie's you posted. Now you are trying to replace that with the whole flood thing which is completely different and is nothing but a red herring..

Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentality’ - Hauty

Here is your original post without the story...

Hatuey said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/09/04/joel-osteen-to-uproarious-hurricane-harvey-victims-dont-have-a-victim-mentality/

Couldn't find a better source - but this made me chuckle. A sky being will pay you back for destroying your home, your personal documents, and killing your relatives with a storm. It will pay you back for destroying everything you've worked for allow you to function normally in a society, but not with interest for all of the time you'll spend trying to get your life back in order.

Just donate to Joel Osteen's church and you'll see.

I promise.

Click to expand...

Yea, nothing about flooding. So no, more bull**** from you.

Hatuey said:

Anyways, the church that was too flooded to take in people but is now holding services:

Click to expand...

Another red herring to hide your hatred and bigotry. It's laughable.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Black Dog said:

Another red herring to hide your hatred and bigotry. It's laughable.

Click to expand...

Are you saying that the visibly accessible non-flooded Megachurch was inaccessible and flooded after all?

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Manc Skipper said:

Are you saying that the visibly accessible non-flooded Megachurch was inaccessible and flooded after all?

Click to expand...

I am saying it is a red herring as in...

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue.

Which was...

Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentality’ - Hauty

I am sorry I made it to complicated for you to understand.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Manc Skipper said:

Are you saying that the visibly accessible non-flooded Megachurch was inaccessible and flooded after all?

Click to expand...

No, he's saying that there was concern that the church might flood and that's why it wasn't used as a shelter, right away.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

apdst said:

No, he's saying that there was concern that the church might flood and that's why it wasn't used as a shelter, right away.

Click to expand...

Sorry man. Not what I was saying at all.

Re: Joel Osteen to uproarious Hurricane Harvey victims: Don’t have a ‘victim mentalit

Black Dog said:

Sorry man. Not what I was saying at all.

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I stand corrected then.